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Basler Ace- any idea of purchase killed

beamish

By beamish
in Imaging - Discussion

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beamish

beamish

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I can only guess different firmware ? Perhaps that's why the ringing occurs, certainly no mention of the problem from Flea3 owners-or at least none that I've read. It has been a problem for Ace owners-hene the e-mail that appears to have been sent out from Basler to all those who have raised issues.

I don't have much more Brian, I have just come across it over on CN and since I had almost decided to order one ..... thought others may appreciate it and make up their own minds

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neil phillips

neil phillips

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Its a weird issue isnt it Karlo. Ive been thinking as you know, Just like you. But the problem seems to be one that might strike when you least expect maybe. Or under different conditions, frame rates temperatures ect. and that bothers me a bit i admit. Emils comments are very telling too. he wished he had just kept hes Modified DMK. Makes one wonder if that option isnt a good one to pursue. Of course the imaging source camera with new 618 chip. might be the answer, as of course the engineers are well aware of these problems now. And maybe its possible this is what is slowing down there release ? Its tempting now just to wait for the IS camera, as it may promise to be a poor mans flea, with less of the itch of the basler. None the less good results are still coming from basler users no question. Emils saturn is superb. no artifacts there.

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riklaunim

riklaunim

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Those Ace (and even Flea) artifacts are very random - they show up more for some users, and usually aren't very strong. As people suggested there it would be / it is very hard to nail the problem where and why those artifacts appear. One of factors may be those very fast shutter clocks, who knows. ~Works in my case.

For alternatives TIS new cameras are still unknown. QHY IMG0H is also big uknown (1-2 users on CN?, mixed reviews). SBIG is cooking ST-i which will be even bigger mystery (kodak based camera with high dynamic range and unknown gain value. Custom unique software, slow frame rate). Maybe even Atik will start thinking about putting 618 and 445 in the Titan platform?

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beamish

beamish

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Neil- I'm personally holding my cash to wait and hear about the IS cam, the basler is a great price but it's still too much for me to make a mistake with. Sure the artifacts are random but therein is the problem! When it's cause is known one can attempt a work around, try to avoid raising the circumstances-when it's random ????

Rik, don't misunderstand me, I think what you're doing with the ACE is XLNT, but I've read and heard alot about ghosting artifacts and frankly I just don't wish to take that chance. I have resigned myself to buying a Flea3 at worst (cost-wise) and buying an IS at best (though it wouldn't surprise me if the IS cam has a few niggles too). I agree Neil I think this is what is holding up release. The beauty of the IS is that it'll come shipped with great tested capture s/w too.

My understanding re the modified version of the DMK is that you get all the benefits of the 618 with the known issues of the 21 so those who have attempted it have been happy.

Bottom line is that whatever I get will pretty much have to be it for quite a while so I need to be sure that I get the right one -hence all the hesitation/prevarication.....etc

PS the link I sent you Neil for the Basler... they ARE clearly promoting it as an astro camera !!!

DVC machinevision B.V.

kinda contrary to what Basler are saying!!!:icon_eek:

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riklaunim

riklaunim

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They may not know what the company have said. On Cloudynights there is nice post from Airylab:

As for the infamous "Ghost edge artifact", sorry guys to tell you that if you don't want it, you'll have to leave the CCD world. This artifact comes from signal bouncing between the CCD and the first stage amp when you have a strong signal threshold. A portion of the signal bounces back from the stage, back to the sensor and then back again to the stage. As CCD are readed line per line, that will always append in a horizontal orientation. The bounce is always there in fact. Except that when going slow enough, the shift is just always there (that depends on the distance between the stage and the CCD gate, and the readout speed. The more space and speed, the more shift you'll have). It become just more noticeable depending on the speed (the number of pixel will increase).

He hammered it, didn't he? :icon_eek: So it seems that "no" artifacts = slow camera? :rolleyes:

1ir-rgb-soft-0149.jpg

Do you see the ghost on the left side? Thats the whole issue (at least for me). It's much less problematic than circular artifacts still in some industry cameras.

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beamish

beamish

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Taking no prisoners !!

Perhaps the distance between the stage and CCD gate in the flea is slightly less ??

I had noticed the ghosting in your images Rik-how are you dealing with them?

PS Airylab pricesfor the cam( incl Genika Trigger ) are stil way higher then DVC

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rwg

rwg

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I thought that the last post in the Cloudynights thread was interesting (by chelem) - he seemed to know what he was talking about and was of the opinion that the fringing was an artifact of the amplification electronics reading from the CCD buffer.

The upshot was that if you have the exposure level too low and are filling the dynamic range by using gain, pixel shift, etc, you will see these sort of effects because you are amplifying the normally invisible electronic artifacts up to visibility.

The converse should be that if you set the exposure to a longer value so you can turn the gain down (which you should be aiming for anyway), these sort of effects shouldn't show. If it takes 100000 photons to fill one pixel with charge and a 1/100s exposure only gets you 10000, setting the gain to a factor of 10 doesn't get you the same results as setting a 1/10s exposure and getting all the photons collected in the first place...

I must admit that I haven't got around to using my Ace yet for planetary imaging - I did a moon test sequence a while back which didn't show any problems, but it was of the terminator where they wouldn't show up so easily. I have also have messed around with it in LX mode (supported by SharpCap) but the amp glow is a bit of an issue and it has too many hot pixels when the exposure gets about 8s. Of course, it does run warm, so maybe cooling would help.

Robin

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