Which CCD vs. which camera?

[siovene]

Hello everybody,

I'm new to astrophotography and new to the forum.

I have a Skywatcher 80ED apo on a HEQ5 mount, plus guide scope with QHY5 camera.

My current imaging camera is a Canon 450D which is not modded. I have a number of options now:

1) Mod my 450D and use it also for family pictures, with a filter or with modified white balance.

PROS: cheap

CONS: lumbering; I will lack a dedicated AP camera.

2) Buy a used camera which is already modded, keeping the 450D for my family photos.

PROS: I don't have to mod the camera myself (I'm afraid I will kill it )

CONS: I don't want to get anything older than a 450D, so it won't be that cheap.

3) Mod my 450D and buy another camera for family photos.

PROS: I would get a camera that shoots HD videos too.

CONS: expensive

4) Shed the pennies and get a CCD, keeping the 450D for family photos

PROS: I would probably get a much better AP camera

CONS: much more expensive

Guys, I need you to run down these options. I need to know if shooting monochrome with taking turns at RGB filters will be VERY laborious, and if a cheap CCD (<= 1000 EUR) will be better than a modded 450D or similar.

Also, which entry level CCD cameras would you recommend?

PS: winters are very cold here (down to -20C (-4F)), and that's where I would do most my imaging, since at my high latitude summer nights are non-existent or really short. So perhaps I don't need that much cooling for the camera

Please help me out!

Thanks!

[narrowbandpaul]

this report I typed on which CCD might be useful.....

http://stargazerslounge.com/equipment-help/89946-choosing-ccd-camera.html

[ollypenrice]

Paul's article is excellent.

In very cold conditions DSLRs can malfunction. I have seen that even here at around minus ten.

LRGB is not laborious and one shot colour is not faster. I use both in the same model of camera.(Atik 4000s). The fastest is LRGB with colour binned 2x2.

One shot colour CCD is good but sometimes you would really miss the benefits of a high resolution Ha layer on many targets.

What you have not mentioned is chip size. Mono CCDs only have DSLR chip sizes when they are expensive. This is a shame but not a disaster at your focal length.

I would strongly recommend the Atik 314L, a low noise, high sensitivity camera nicely matched to your telescope. The software is easy and reliable. I have only used the mono but it was great.

If you think of stretching to an 8300 chip, have a look here before deciding on an OSC version. This owner was not impressed. (See latest pics section)

www.franskroon.nl

I have had several 8300 chip mono cameras here and they have been impressive.

Olly

[siovene]

Hi Olly,

I don't think I would want to go for an OSC, as I read they don't perform well under polluted skies, plus you can't get full potential with narrow band filters.

So if I were to go with a CCD, I'd take B&W, I would do B&W until I have money to buy filters, then I would do manual filter switching until I can afford an electric filter wheel.

How does this sound, if you have the hindsight?

With regard to the Atik 314L+... I don't know: I'm really put down by the small size of the sensor: I would really like to get pictures that I can print at 10'x8'.

[narrowbandpaul]

Thanks Olly!

In return, Olly's advice there is fantastic. The 8300 is almost DSLR sized, and is very nice in a camera.

I can believe that mono is no slower than one shot colour. Its also far more flexible and has a better response than the same sensor with OSC

paul

[MartinB]

The Atik 314L has a very sensitive chip and very low read noise. It would match your ED80 very nicely and allow you to nicely frame a number of targets which would be lost on a larger chip e.g. M82. The relatively small chip also has the advantage of not being affected by field curvature in the way that larger chips are.

You will have to add in the expense of filters and a filter wheel if you want to go down the LRGB route though. Something else to think about though is to double up your family camera as a one shot colour astro camera. Use the Atik for mono/ha and your unmodded canon for colour. This strategy can work very well and on the right targets give you the best of all worlds!

[siovene]

Something else to think about though is to double up your family camera as a one shot colour astro camera. Use the Atik for mono/ha and your unmodded canon for colour. This strategy can work very well and on the right targets give you the best of all worlds!

Wow that sounds interesting!

But is it really efficient? I will have to take darks, flats, and offsets for both cameras, and the post processing will be more tedious.

Even tho I don't mind long post processing sessions: I gotta do something in the long weeks of cloudy skies

Do you know if there's some good tutorials or people explaining their process, with regard to combining DSLR and CCD?

[ollypenrice]

Martin's technique is not at all long winded. It might be quicker than using a filter wheel. I have never used it with a DSLR but I often combine narrowband and luminance from my mono camera with colour from my OSC, which is really the same technique. It is efficient, yes. You only need one master flat with an OSC instead of three. I like that!!

I combine the images in a programme called Registar which is quite expensive but brilliant. It will align and resize images from any scope and any camera. For instance, if you took a widefield in the DSLR for colour you could take a two panel mosaic in Luminance from the CCD and combine them.

Although I like my OSC I have often got two images and mounts going at the same time here and two LRGBs is too complicated for little me. Your decision to go for mono is, in my view, the right one. More flexibility and better in light pollution, I believe. (I don't really have any...)

If cash is tight you could indeed get lots of good Luminance data and then add colour later when you have a fliter wheel. Or use Martin's idea. If ever you can, orientate your camera along RA and Dec. It makes image combining much easier.

I have manual and electric wheels and I keep away from the electric one because it adds one more cable, one more USB ('Device not recognized...' Why not???? One more thing to go wrong.) If your gear never moves then okay, electric, but even here I have to swap from mount to mount, PC to PC and I always load up the manual wheel to avoid hassles.

We'd all like bigger chips but you can make mosaics. This is a nine panel from my Atik 4000 OSC;

http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Photography/Widefield-images-including/9131296_ijREH#1039776082_JZuEH-X3-LB

Personally I love doing mosaics though it is hard work, I know.

Olly

[siovene]

You lost me at this:

ollypenrice's Photos

My jaw dropped and the part of my brain responsible for understanding language got smudged into a soft paste.

I don't know what profanities I should articulate to express how amazing that shot is.