Galaxies and Electromagnetic Propagation

[Quintus]

I recently posted a hypothesis on physics.org that was deleted for being overly speculative ( I was so bold as to suggest the electromagnetic frequency of dark energy and give a means to detect dark matter).

The reason I am here is to get some help with the hypothesis concerning my predicted astronomical observations. My background is actually more in the electronics field than astronomy, so I may need lots of help .

Simply put, part of my hypothesis suggests that galaxies can act as a double negative refractive metamaterial matrix. This metamaterial matrix is caused by a combination of ENG and MNG areas made by stars and the periodic structures of those stars in a galaxy. This would cause certain galaxies to act as a metamatrial superlens bending an ELF spectrum around that galaxy. This would cause an effect similar to gravitic lensing in an ELF spectrum.

So my questions for the astronomers are:

Can radio telescopes pick up ELF at less than 1Hz? Does anyone know of any observations made at these frequencies?

I actually have a lot more questions but this would be a good start.

[starstalker]

huh!!!

[Quintus]

huh!!!

Thanks for the reply starstalker, of course this is not the reaction I was looking for . I have obviously failed in my description and I will restate it.

My hypothesis suggests that a galaxy, because of its structure and composition, can "bend" certain electromagnetic frequencies around it (double negative refraction). This would be somewhat similar to the way a gravitational lens "bends" light around a massive object (though only at certain ELFs). I believe this phenomenon can also be observed.

To be able to verify this I need to know some particulars on radio astronomy. What range of frequencies do the radio telescopes operate in, and if Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) below 1Hz has been observed by these telescopes in the past?

[starstalker]

ok, makes a little bit more sense(not much,but thats a reflection on me not you lol) maybe u should post in the radio astronomy section, thats a whole different world to what goes on in this section! lol

[brantuk]

Hi Quintus

Whilst there may be someone here that can answer your query, it would be purely incidental and you might be waiting a while for them to happen along.

Most of the people on the forum are engaged in visual astronomy using optical telescopes and cameras rather than radio astronomy. (we do have a section for radio astronomy you could try in).

It might be an idea to try a radio astronomy site such as Jodrell Bank linked to Manchester Uni astro physics dept: Jodrell Bank Centre for Astrophysics

Good Luck

[Quintus]

Thank you for your assistance brantuk. I had previously contacted the Astronomy and Physics Department at my alma-mater and the NRAO here in the USA and no one has answered me as of yet. I am not sure they know what to make of my hypothesis, or they think it too outlandish to take it seriously. Either way I am not getting any answers. I will post on the radio astronomy forum and see if I have any luck. Thanks.

[SteveL]

(Moved to Radio Astronomy section)

[FraserClarke]

No. The ionosphere blocks anything below about 20MHz. Even at these frequencies, the scattering from the ionised gas in the galaxy (and universe as a whole) is significant. At the frequencies you're talking about, I expect the Universe is totally opaque.

More fundamentally though, the wavelength of a 1Hz radio wave is 300000000m, so you'd need a 150000000m dipole to detect it, which is about 1/3 of the way to the moon....

[George Jones]

I recently posted a hypothesis on physics.org that was deleted for being overly speculative

And you also had a thread deleted at Physics Forums.

Our galaxy (The Milky Way) may also act as a metamaterial matrix by either blocking or refracting electromagnetic waves away from us. It may even block dark energy's specific electromagnetic frequency.

( I was so bold as to suggest the electromagnetic frequency of dark energy and give a means to detect dark matter).

In your Physics Forums thread you wrote about blocking "dark energy's specific electromagnetic frequency". For now, forget about explaining blocking. What doyou mean by "dark energy's specific electromagnetic frequency"? What is your understanding of dark energy?

The reason I am here is to get some help with the hypothesis concerning my predicted astronomical observations. My background is actually more in the electronics field than astronomy, so I may need lots of help .

Simply put, part of my hypothesis suggests that galaxies can act as a double negative refractive metamaterial matrix. This metamaterial matrix is caused by a combination of ENG and MNG areas made by stars and the periodic structures of those stars in a galaxy. This would cause certain galaxies to act as a metamatrial superlens bending an ELF spectrum around that galaxy. This would cause an effect similar to gravitic lensing in an ELF spectrum.

So my questions for the astronomers are:

Can radio telescopes pick up ELF at less than 1Hz? Does anyone know of any observations made at these frequencies?

I actually have a lot more questions but this would be a good start.

Thank you for your assistance brantuk. I had previously contacted the Astronomy and Physics Department at my alma-mater and the NRAO here in the USA and no one has answered me as of yet. I am not sure they know what to make of my hypothesis, or they think it too outlandish to take it seriously. Either way I am not getting any answers. I will post on the radio astronomy forum and see if I have any luck. Thanks.

Did your submissions include mathematics as well as prose? If not, then very few scientists will spend time looking at your work. And if you did include mathematics, the reponse might be "Send your stuff to a peer-reviewed journal."

[George Jones]

Simply put, part of my hypothesis suggests that galaxies can act as a double negative refractive metamaterial matrix. This metamaterial matrix is caused by a combination of ENG and MNG areas made by stars and the periodic structures of those stars in a galaxy.

But the periodicity of astronomical structures, if it exists at all, is not comparable to the wavelength of light.

[Quintus]

Thanks for the post George Jones that thread on the Physics Forum is the hypothesis I was speaking of at physics.org (one and the same). It was set forth as provisional conjecture to guide my investigations. As TeaDwarf has stated the Wavelengths are so large at this frequency that it would be extremely difficult (impossible?) to pick up any of these frequencies with existing antennas. Though there are ways to make a small antenna behave electrically as a very large antenna. Once one takes into account scattering and the effects of things such as pulsars, quasars, and galactic magnetic fields it would be even more difficult - if not impossible ( " The ionosphere blocks anything below about 20MHz"). Basically I was seeking answers as to whether it is even possible to pick up these wavelengths. I am thinking no.

As part of my conjecture I stated that dark energy has a specific EM frequency or spectrum (just like any other energy) and that it is below 1 Hz, (to be specific it is vacuum energy with resonance below 1Hz) and yes I did give some math pertaining to this. But for the physics forums you can't put too much conjecture in a thread or it will be deleted, and my hypothesis is all conjecture at this point. When I can propose specific experiments, cite other past work related to this, and give them all the math required I can post again in their Research forum.

As for the periodicity of astronomical structures:

In electronic metamaterial resonators the periodicity of the components has a direct effect on the electromagnetic frequency they affect. Since all electromagnetic frequencies are essentially a form of light, ELF may be affected in the same way by the periodicity of astronomical structures (if it exists at all). Please look up "metamaterial cloaking" to see where I'm coming from on this.

As I said, this is all conjecture at this point and with the right research and questions I hope to either prove (enough so that it warrants further investigation) or disprove my hypothesis. Thanks.

[SteveL]

The longer serving members of this forum will have probably determined what the eventual ending to this thread will be

[Quintus]

Even us new members can guess the eventual ending to this thread

Anyway, I just received an email back from one of the astronomers at the NRAO and his statement is in complete agreement with TeaDwarf:

"The Earth's ionosphere cuts of any cosmic signals from reaching

ground below about 20 MHz. So that's really the lowest frequency that

even in principle is possible to use for astronomical observations

from ground. Practically, most telescope operate even above 20 MHz.

The lowest frequency observations I know have been around 50 MHz.

There are no telescopes in space as well that operate anywhere even near 1 Hz."

So observing any astronomical ELF at this time is just a moot point. But, thank you for the help guys Btw, Here is a cool news article that came out this evening. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/sciencephysicsmaterialsinvisibility

[George Jones]

Thanks for the post George Jones that thread on the Physics Forum is the hypothesis I was speaking of at physics.org (one and the same).

physics.org and Physics Forum are quite different things. physics.org is run by the Institute of Physics,

About Us | physics.org

Institute of Physics - Home.

Physics Forums (at which I am a unpaid, volunteer moderator) is owned by one individual who started it as a high school project in 2001,

Physics Forums History

It was set forth as provisional conjecture to guide my investigations. As TeaDwarf has stated the Wavelengths are so large at this frequency that it would be extremely difficult (impossible?) to pick up any of these frequencies with existing antennas. Though there are ways to make a small antenna behave electrically as a very large antenna. Once one takes into account scattering and the effects of things such as pulsars, quasars, and galactic magnetic fields it would be even more difficult - if not impossible ( " The ionosphere blocks anything below about 20MHz"). Basically I was seeking answers as to whether it is even possible to pick up these wavelengths. I am thinking no.

As part of my conjecture I stated that dark energy has a specific EM frequency or spectrum (just like any other energy) and that it is below 1 Hz, (to be specific it is vacuum energy with resonance below 1Hz) and yes I did give some math pertaining to this.

In general, not all energies have "a specific EM frequency or spectrum", as there are energies not associated with electromagnetism. In particular, observations indicated that dark energy has an equation of state (very close to) to p = -ρ, where p is pressure and ρ (the Greek letter rho) is energy/mass density. Electromagnetic radiation does not have this equation of state. Consequently, "dark energy has a specific EM frequency or spectrum" is not true.

But for the physics forums you can't put too much conjecture in a thread or it will be deleted, and my hypothesis is all conjecture at this point. When I can propose specific experiments, cite other past work related to this, and give them all the math required I can post again in their Research forum.

As for the periodicity of astronomical structures:

In electronic metamaterial resonators the periodicity of the components has a direct effect on the electromagnetic frequency they affect. Since all electromagnetic frequencies are essentially a form of light, ELF may be affected in the same way by the periodicity of astronomical structures (if it exists at all). Please look up "metamaterial cloaking" to see where I'm coming from on this.

From

Metamaterial cloaking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

a metamaterial is composed of a sequence of elements and spacings, which are much smaller than the selected wavelength of light.

Put another way, the selected wavelength of light is much larger than the than the sequence of spacings in the metamaterial. For stars in a galaxy, take 10 light-years or larger as the selected wavelenth of light. this corresponds to a frequency of 0.00000003 Hertz!

Before anyone will take you seriously, you need to show mathematically why a galaxy would act like a metamaterial, and you have to get rid of obvious errors.

[AstroGnome]

Going back to the original hypothesis.

Gravitational lensing which causes the bending of light around massive structures (such as galaxies) is unlike optical lensing and is not frequency dependent (angle of deflection = 4GM/rc^2, no frequency component) so the ammount of bending is the same for all electromagentic radiation. Whether its ELF or optical.

So the hypothesis is redundant as gravitational lensing works at all frequencies anyway.

I think....

Mark....