Scope opinions for trip to dark sky area for a beginner.

[DarkSkys]

 Hello everyone,

I will be traveling to the Shenandoah next week and staying on, 200+ acre farm with 360° visibility. I've been interested in astronomy for a very long time but never had the resources to purchase anything that provided a "good" viewing experience. I am interested in both planetary and dso viewing and am planning on renting a scope from lens rental for my trip. The two options available are the Celestron NexStar 6SE 150mm, and the Vaonis VE50 Vespera. I am interested in astrophotography as well and plan on also renting the Nikon F adapter if I go with that option. I am using this as a litmus test to Guage my interest now that I'm older but also want to take advantage of the dark skies (hoping to get a good showing for the Lyrids too). 

I would like the following outcomes:

-Easyish setup process. 

-Good goto type tracking so I can get the most out of our time with it. 

-Come away with some, at least, decent photos. 

-Get a better idea of the direction I would like to go when purchasing. 

I realize there are better, more cost effective options out there, and I may consider them when purchasing. With that being said, the options listed, and the area we will be, what would be your choice? Or would you do something else? 

Appreciate everyone's feedback. 

Edited April 14 by DarkSkys
Sp

[Elp]

You're doing the typical rookie mistake:

Planetary AND dso, visual AND AP, widefield imaging, and to top it all EASY.

Do you have any experience at all finding objects in the night sky manually? It's not as easy as you may think, being at a dark sky it's incredibly more difficult as there's a lot more stars in the sky, more than you can possibly imagine if you're going to a site which you've described.

Usually doing planetary observation and scanning the skies for DSOs needs two sets of optics as planets need long focal length (so do DSOs to a point unless you want to see larger objects full view then you need shorter focal length (eg the Pleiades M45, Andromeda galaxy M31)). A long focal length scope isn't easy to use. Having a goto system like the C6 has by default in the retail package Celestron provide will help, though if you've never set one up you may need some assistance, are the providers going to assist?

From the outset the Vaonis will be better as it has a degree of ease of use being a smart telescope which images. If youve got some spare money though, I'd buy the ZWO Seestar and take it with you, nothing out there at present that does what it can do for the price, size and ease of use (it's useless on planets though due to the short focal length). I would however test it or anything at home first, even widefield dslr/body imaging, you might find very quickly your lenses are no good (most aren't).

[Cosmic Geoff]

The Celestron 6SE should be easy to set up and use for visual. 

I don't know about the Vaonis Ve 50 Vespera, but the USP of these smart scopes is that they are supposed to be easy to use for imaging.

48 minutes ago, DarkSkys said:

I am interested in astrophotography as well and plan on also renting the Nikon F adapter if I go with that option.

I don't know what you intend here, but I would not try attaching it to the C6 SE if I were you, as this scope is not well suited for imaging.

[Elp]

The C6 is fine for imaging, but I wouldn't do it as a beginner, especially not with the default alt az mount.

[DarkSkys]

12 minutes ago, Elp said:

You're doing the typical rookie mistake:

Planetary AND dso, visual AND AP, widefield imaging, and to top it all EASY.

Do you have any experience at all finding objects in the night sky manually? It's not as easy as you may think, being at a dark sky it's incredibly more difficult as there's a lot more stars in the sky, more than you can possibly imagine if you're going to a site which you've described.

Usually doing planetary observation and scanning the skies for DSOs needs two sets of optics as planets need long focal length (so do DSOs to a point unless you want to see larger objects full view then you need shorter focal length (eg the Pleiades M45, Andromeda galaxy M31)). A long focal length scope isn't easy to use. Having a goto system like the C6 has by default in the retail package Celestron provide will help, though if you've never set one up you may need some assistance, are the providers going to assist?

From the outset the Vaonis will be better as it has a degree of ease of use being a smart telescope which images. If youve got some spare money though, I'd buy the ZWO Seestar and take it with you, nothing out there at present that does what it can do for the price, size and ease of use (it's useless on planets though due to the short focal length). I would however test it or anything at home first, even widefield dslr/body imaging, you might find very quickly your lenses are no good (most aren't).

Hi elp, thanks for your reply. I understand that it's either/or (from what I understand [at a very high level] arpeture vs magnification) and that's what I'm trying to figure out, which rabbit hole I want to go down with my eventual purchase. And no, my experience tracking objects in the sky is very minimal, one of the reasons I am looking to these two options. What I was looking for in my post was, given the time of year, dates (April 20-24 2024), and the other specifics I listed, which option some of of you might choose. It's a rental, not a crazy decision, was just looking for some opinions to try and get the most out of the experience for me and my wife to enjoy. Again, thanks everyone for you opinions.

Edited April 14 by DarkSkys
Sp

[Bivanus]

@DarkSkysregardless of the telescope decision , do try to have a pair of binoculars on hand too, nothing fancy , just some 50mm/7x or even a 10x.You will use them both individually and in tandem with the  scope as a finder. Like other told you, really dark sites are a bit different than one expects. Oh , and remember: red light is your friend, harsh white light is not.  

Almost forgot to answer the question: get the Vespera , but train a bit with it before so you don't fumble in the middle of the night.

Edited April 14 by Bivanus

[Elp]

If you really want to image (top of the list) then the smart scope. The binos are a good recommendation, using it with an app like Stellarium or Sky Safari will help you find things in the sky. If you get some experience, I'd be inclined to split the rental and ask for the other to trial, if you can find objects then do a 50/50 split of use to get the best of imaging and visual.

Edited April 14 by Elp

[Cosmic Geoff]

I have taken the similar C8 to a dark skies site and found I could see a lot of galaxies with it at this time of year.  You could also look at double stars and globular clusters. Also Jupiter and Uranus if you set up early in the evening.  Other planets will probably not be accessible.  This depends on you being able to operate the GoTo. I found the Celestron Nexstar alt-az GoTo system easy to master, and got the hang of it in one evening, with the aid of the manual.  GoTo mounts seem to baffle some folks, though. 🙂

If you do rent the C6, make sure that you get an external power pack with it and are not relying on the internal dry cells.  

As mentioned above the C6 SE package is not suited to imaging.  If you want to get imaging results from a short holiday, hire or buy a smart scope, e.g. the Seestar S50.

[DarkSkys]

2 minutes ago, Bivanus said:

@DarkSkysregardless of the telescope decision , do try to have a pair of binoculars on hand too, nothing fancy , just some 50mm/7x or even a 10x.You will use them both individually and in tandem with the  scope as a finder. Like other told you, really dark sites are a bit different than one expects. Oh , and remember: red light is your friend, harsh white light is not.  

Great advice, I have a 8x36 Monocular, would that suffice? Andy yeah, have a headlamp that has a red light setting. Any other tips are appreciated. 

On a side note, I'm a realist and understand that a few days at night will barely scratch the surface of this field. I'm looking to Guage my interest in astronomy again now that I'm older. Have many hobbies, need to be more selective now before adding something else otherwise you can never invest enough time to enjoy any of them...😋

[DarkSkys]

6 minutes ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I have taken the similar C8 to a dark skies site and found I could see a lot of galaxies with it at this time of year.  You could also look at double stars and globular clusters. Also Jupiter and Uranus if you set up early in the evening.  Other planets will probably not be accessible.  This depends on you being able to operate the GoTo. I found the Celestron Nexstar alt-az GoTo system easy to master, and got the hang of it in one evening, with the aid of the manual.  GoTo mounts seem to baffle some folks, though. 🙂

If you do rent the C6, make sure that you get an external power pack with it and are not relying on the internal dry cells.  

As mentioned above the C6 SE package is not suited to imaging.  If you want to get imaging results from a short holiday, hire or buy a smart scope, e.g. the Seestar S50.

Thanks Geoff, great reply, exactly what I was looking for. Think you confirmed my suspicions, and great feedback on the power pack, I was wondering about that. 

What kind of viewing experience can I expect from the included  25mm eyepeice on the C6? From what I understand, to get decent visuals I would need an upgraded eyepeice and barrow(?). 

[Cosmic Geoff]

1 minute ago, DarkSkys said:

What kind of viewing experience can I expect from the included  25mm eyepeice on the C6? From what I understand, to get decent visuals I would need an upgraded eyepeice and barrow(?). 

The included 25mm eyepiece is okay (I use mine every time I take the scope out) but the hirer really ought to offer a range of eyepieces, something like 15mm and 8mm, or a zoom eyepiece, and maybe a 32mm to widen the field.  A Barlow will work, but the C6 has a 1.5 metre focal length so there is no need for one if the suitable eyepieces are on hand.

[Elp]

The long focal length is one of the issues I have with my C6 for visual, it's so long that centering targets can be frustrating, that's why when I use it for visual I'm using a computer and plate solving to make sure targets are dead centre every time, but with the dark skies you should be able to see DSO targets so this won't be so much of an issue. A 100mm or smaller aperture refractor make for more enjoyable sessions if using them manually, but you won't be. As you have the focal length sticking to a broad range will help, start with the lower power first (the larger mm eyepiece) then swap to lower ones as you're observing until you find one you like per target, you'll generally find you'll tend to stick to one or two.

Edited April 14 by Elp

[Bivanus]

If you have it , use it, if you'll like what you see you'll dig deeper after getting a taste. Another tip would be to get your camera out before getting to the dark site and play a bit with it to have an idea about the settings required to get those pesky stars 😂 Before thinking about using it on the scope, think about having some gorgeous dark site wide fields to wow your friends from home and from here. To have PERFECT shots you need this and that and so on and so forth , however , to get DECENT shots you need much less - a fixed portrait 50mm plastic fantastic is a rather standard fare for both Canon and Nikon and in a good dark sky punches beyond it's  weight.

[DarkSkys]

Thanks everyone, lots of great advice. IF I get any decent pics I'll be sure to update. Will likely be back to the forum for advice if/when I get closer to choosing my purchase. So many to choose from and tough decisions to make (have a couple in mind but will start another post when the time draws nigh). Looking forward to exploration and learning a new skill. Thanks again and happy hunting out there! 

-DS

[DarkSkys]

Oh one last, more specific question. Given the dates, moon phase, planetary locations, etc., would you focus (😉 ) more on planetary viewing or dso (or is that a stupid question)? Just looking to set myself up for success and target objects appropriate for the setting. 

Thanks again. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

2 hours ago, DarkSkys said:

Given the dates, moon phase, planetary locations, etc., would you focus (😉 ) more on planetary viewing or dso

You can look up the moon phase and rise/set times on sites like' moon rise and set'.

Similarly there are sites like https://heavens-above.com/PlanetSummary which will give you the positions of the planet at any given time.

If the Moon does not intrude, this trip would be an opportunity to view galaxies (almost a waste of time from an urban site).  Provided you can use GoTo.

[Ricochet]

I would rent both scopes, the C6 to be used visually whilst the Vespera is stacking subs as an EEA device. This way both scopes give instant gratification during the holiday compared to astrophotography where all you might be doing is gathering data to process once you get home (aside from the issues with the unsuitability of the scope and mount).  Additionally, I would rent the scopes this week as well as next so that you can get used to setting them up and check that they work correctly before you are on holiday. 
 

With regards to additional eyepieces something like an 8-24mm zoom will work well in an f10 scope and should be available at a reasonable price. This should give good lunar views as the moon will be dominating the skies during the holiday. You should also get/make a dew shield for the C6 as the exposed front corrector plates are prone to dewing. 

[PhilB61]

Lot's of good info above about which scope to take, Whatever you decide factor in at least a couple of evenings getting to grips with setting up, alignment etc, ideally before the trip otherwise you may have a very frustrating experience. Lot's of beginners post regarding issues with setting times, location and getting accurate alignment and Goto's. Some "testing" can be accomplished in the daytime.