Advice on next upgrade

[MonsterMagnet]

Hi All.

I've been steadily upgrading my setup with both new and second hand purchases, I currently have:

• WO ZS 73 (doublet)
• WO 30mm Guidescope
• ZWO AM3
• Berlebach Report 112
• Asiair Mini
• ZWO EAF
• ASI533MC Pro
• ASI224MC (reused for guiding)

I'm looking at my next upgrade and trying to decide what would be the best thing to go for:

• Mono camera and filters (probably an ASI2600MM Pro)
• New scope, probably around the same FL but a Quintuplet

I focus almost exclusively on imaging.  Trying to decide whether an improved scope or switching to mono with the doublet would be the best next step.

Any thoughts welcome.

MM

[Elp]

The main factors will be:

A. What specifically do you like to image,

B. What's your LP like,

C. Budget.

D. What do you hope to gain or improve upon if this is a factor.

Edited February 20 by Elp

[SamAndrew]

I don't think you'll see much improvement by switching to a "better" scope with a similar focal length, given you're not using a big camera chip, so 2600 mono would be my choice; of course once you have that camera you might start to notice the limitations of your doublet, and then want to upgrade the scope

[Bivanus]

2 hours ago, Elp said:

The main factors will be:

A. What specifically do you like to image,

B. What's your LP like,

C. Budget.

D. What do you hope to gain or improve upon if this is a factor.

E. Are you married , in a common law partnership , or otherwise have to ...ahem...explain your spending to a house sharing third party 😂

[MonsterMagnet]

3 hours ago, Elp said:

The main factors will be:

A. What specifically do you like to image,

B. What's your LP like,

C. Budget.

D. What do you hope to gain or improve upon if this is a factor.

 

A.  For now I would like to continue to image similar stuff (wide field nebula, galaxies etc).  I expect I will want a 100mm plus scope at some point for certain targets but it's more about better quality images and possibly more FOV than my current camera.

B.  Absolutely shocking, Zone 2 central London.  Pretty much narrowband filters all the time such as the L-Extreme, hence the thoughts about moving to mono.

C.  Depends really, obviously a mono setup isn't cheap but would invest in that or look second hand.  I guess if I went scope it would be ~1200 GBP.

D.  I think as per A, firstly improved images in my LP circumstances and then a bigger image which will involve changing the camera.

Thanks for the help!  I think answering those might have actually given me a good indication of what I think myself which is moving to mono is probably the next step.

MM

[MonsterMagnet]

1 hour ago, Bivanus said:

E. Are you married , in a common law partnership , or otherwise have to ...ahem...explain your spending to a house sharing third party 😂

 

Shes good, if it keeps me happy and out of her hair then it's a winner in her view!

MM.

[Elp]

I think larger sensor and mono is the way. I'm bortle 7 so primarily image mono, useful too as most clear nights the moon likes to pop out too, you can image ha and S2 pretty much next to the moon. I've got the 533, the FOV it provides is kind of restricting I find, my 183 which is my workhorse is better but nowhere near what apsc and full frame can provide, a 294 is a nice compromise between size and price but their sensors behave odd when dealing with flats and bias though the mono might fare better than the OSC. You could always mosaic with the 533 but I understand the imaging opportunities are few and far between.

A 100mm refractor is a fine instrument but I find ATM the FL is quite odd, too zoomed in to frame large nebula and not quite long enough for those mostly small galaxies or PNs. For visual though they are excellent.

[MonsterMagnet]

2 hours ago, Elp said:

I think larger sensor and mono is the way. I'm bortle 7 so primarily image mono, useful too as most clear nights the moon likes to pop out too, you can image ha and S2 pretty much next to the moon. I've got the 533, the FOV it provides is kind of restricting I find, my 183 which is my workhorse is better but nowhere near what apsc and full frame can provide, a 294 is a nice compromise between size and price but their sensors behave odd when dealing with flats and bias though the mono might fare better than the OSC. You could always mosaic with the 533 but I understand the imaging opportunities are few and far between.

A 100mm refractor is a fine instrument but I find ATM the FL is quite odd, too zoomed in to frame large nebula and not quite long enough for those mostly small galaxies or PNs. For visual though they are excellent.

 

Thanks, I'm definitely leaning towards mono now.

I've tried doing a few mosaics with the 533 but as you say, nights are limited nowadays and to get enough data with the OSC doesn't ever seem to happen.

MM

[Elp]

You do however have to bear in mind though mono is technically faster, your projects may have to be spaced out more over a longer duration, it's at least bare minimum 3 sessions, maybe another one if you include an LRGB pass if you had an OSC camera at hand. That's how I do it, no point in changing filters mid session unless it's a very long night.

I've just changed my expectation to take longer on projects, it makes it easier on the mind.

[MonsterMagnet]

9 hours ago, Elp said:

You do however have to bear in mind though mono is technically faster, your projects may have to be spaced out more over a longer duration, it's at least bare minimum 3 sessions, maybe another one if you include an LRGB pass if you had an OSC camera at hand. That's how I do it, no point in changing filters mid session unless it's a very long night.

I've just changed my expectation to take longer on projects, it makes it easier on the mind.

A good point and one which I was reaching anyway with my OSC.

I think I've done as much as I can with single sessions so tend to get data over a few nights now and also when I can I capture OSC data with an L-Extreme and an Askar D2 SII filter which allows me to extract all the info I need for a mono-style processing even if it's far less efficient.

MM

[MonsterMagnet]

On 20/02/2024 at 23:00, Elp said:

You do however have to bear in mind though mono is technically faster, your projects may have to be spaced out more over a longer duration, it's at least bare minimum 3 sessions, maybe another one if you include an LRGB pass if you had an OSC camera at hand. That's how I do it, no point in changing filters mid session unless it's a very long night.

I've just changed my expectation to take longer on projects, it makes it easier on the mind.

So I went with the advice and sourced an ASI2600MM, LRGB and Narrowband filters and an EFW.  Just looking forward to some clear nights now.

Purely hypothetically (maybe), looking for advice on a possible scope upgrade from the WO ZS 73.  Probably around the same FL but I am just wondering if I'll see any tangible benefits moving from a doublet to a quad or quint with no flattener?  Will it just be ease of setup and reduced size or is the image collection actually better?

MM

[Elp]

You see improvements in definition (resolution) of objects the larger the aperture (to a point, as seeing limits as well as your mount tracking how large you can go to reap the benefit) as well as the increase in focal length provides (targets are larger and better resolved in total). Other than tighter stars, I'd doubt increased number of glass elements offer much more other than better flat field correction for those type of scopes. If you want to really see increased benefits, you need the aperture (for speed/light gathering capability) or do that plus F2/3, then you'll never want to image with a refractor again.

Edited February 22 by Elp