Just starting out, and building a Rig

[DSOBug]

New to this hobby, been watching ton's of YouTube vids getting some ideas and learning.  I may have a lot of questions later down the road.  Ive added some pictures to show the rig I'm building, this is the main components I'm building around.  I have already got these Items shown. I picked up the Redcat 51 at a real good price, it came with a Skyguider pro that I sold to get the AM5.  It also came with a Canon EOS T6i. I'm looking into selling this camera and getting a Canon 60D for now I'm looking also doing some milky way shots and moving stars videos. Also I'm looking at a ZWO Camera's not sure which one to get to fit this rig. I'm looking at the Asiair ZWO ASI183MC Pro or the ASI533MC Pro to do some DSO shots not sure which one to get. And still learning about filters and color wheels.  Kinda overwhelmed with all this learning curve but I'm a trooper and wont quit because I'm eager to learn.  Look forward to Chatting with everyone and learning.... Cheers 🙂

[Adreneline]

Hi @DSOBug. This all looks great to me - largely cos' I own a RedCat 51, ASIair, BlackCat focuser with EAF and a 120MM-mini - the RedCat is great little scope.

I have only one comment to make based purely on my own experience - I found the mini-guide scope a bit of a pain and very difficult to focus, but maybe that was due to my old hands. I would be inclined to pair it with something like one of these https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-125-helical-focuser.html and maybe consider one of the WO guide scope instead.

AP is a great hobby with so many rabbit holes you can go down - choose wisely! 🥴

Good luck.

Adrian

[Elp]

Both of those ZWOs are capable but I'd guess the 533 will be slightly "faster" as it has larger pixels so they'll register signal better over a given time. Either one will be great and a step up from a DSLR, note they'll still have noise but it's a finer cleaner noise pattern.

[Padraic M]

The 533 is a newer model than the 183. Based on the specs alone, (https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/asi533mm-pro/ and https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/asi183mc-pro-color/) the 533 wins out on pretty much all aspects. Better QE, read noise, 14-bit ADC vs 12-bit, much bigger full-well capacity all make the 533 a more sensitive camera with a higher dynamic range. For the small price difference I think the 533 is a better bet.

I understand that the 183 suffered somewhat from amp glow, and the 533 does not. This is not a massive issue because calibration will remove this anyway and you will need to calibrate both cameras, but the less adjustment that is required, the better.

The other qualitative difference that could sway you is the size/shape of the sensor. The 183 has a rectangular sensor with more pixels. The 533 is square. Some folks don't like that but it's down to preference. Play around with Stellarium or telescopius.com to see the different image frames captured with each camera paired with your WO scope.

I have the 533MC and am very happy with it. If I have dark enough skies, I can sometimes get away without calibrating at all.

[Elp]

I wouldn't read too much into the specs they kindly summarise for you, if you look at the graphs and where the newer camera High Gain Conversion kicks in, all that FWD and everything falls off a cliff. The graphs aren't even linear in y. Based alone on the 533 being the newer camera, may be the factor to swing the choice if you can get over the square aspect ratio. I've got both, I tend to use the 183 more because mine are mono (more cost for filters etc if you're considering it).

[Adam J]

3 hours ago, DSOBug said:

New to this hobby, been watching ton's of YouTube vids getting some ideas and learning.  I may have a lot of questions later down the road.  Ive added some pictures to show the rig I'm building, this is the main components I'm building around.  I have already got these Items shown. I picked up the Redcat 51 at a real good price, it came with a Skyguider pro that I sold to get the AM5.  It also came with a Canon EOS T6i. I'm looking into selling this camera and getting a Canon 60D for now I'm looking also doing some milky way shots and moving stars videos. Also I'm looking at a ZWO Camera's not sure which one to get to fit this rig. I'm looking at the Asiair ZWO ASI183MC Pro or the ASI533MC Pro to do some DSO shots not sure which one to get. And still learning about filters and color wheels.  Kinda overwhelmed with all this learning curve but I'm a trooper and wont quit because I'm eager to learn.  Look forward to Chatting with everyone and learning.... Cheers 🙂

Honestly the spot size on the redcat is so good that its one of few scopes that can actually take advantage of the small pixels on the 183mc pro, but I have got to say that my preference accross the board at any focal length is to go with mono. In which case my choise would be a mono 533. If 183 then why buy new so many to be had on the second hand market, but if you want faster imaging the 533mc is the choice as it will image faster with the bigger pixels.

Adam

[DSOBug]

 Thanks for the great ideas, I hope I don't have a lot of issues with the 120 guide scope focusing.  I understand once you have it focused its good to go.

Edited October 6, 2023 by DSOBug

[Elp]

I'd advise you try focusing it during the day on a far away tree or something using very fast exposures on the camera. At night if transparency is an issue you can go from one side of out of focus to the other with minimal adjustment if you don't know what you're looking for (close to star focus you'll see very very faint disks which resolve smaller and smaller into stars as you get close to focus, then they'll bloat again and disappear past the focal point). Once it's set you can normally leave it, I use a 224 with nosepiece with mine so it's easy to set the camera distance again if I remove the camera, with a mini camera it's a bit harder to get that distance bang on if you remove and put the camera back in.

Edited October 6, 2023 by Elp

[Adam-R]

I’ll be following with interest. Looks like you’re a bit further down the road than me with kit. 

[DSOBug]

Thanks for the Ideas, I have another question,  Whats the basic's on using a Color Astro Camera VS Mono, I know that Mono is sharper but is it more processing, and do you need to use color filter wheels or single filters when using both color and mono camera's ?   

Edited October 9, 2023 by DSOBug

[Elp]

Either will usually require filters. Colour astro cameras typically (not all) just have an anti reflective glass coating so let all wavelengths of light through including UV and IR. iR will bloat your image a little, it's more noticeable on stars more than anything. So with a One Shot Colour camera it's useful to use it with an UV/IR cut filter or a luminence filter (Same thing). OSC filter options also include light pollution reduction filters like City Light Suppression CLS, Optolong L-Pro, Idas D and P series, many others but the general consensus is though they do help darken the LP, the signal from your target is also reduced, many people don't bother with them as a result, this is also more so now with LED lights everywhere which emit light in a broad band of wavelengths so it's difficult if not impossible to stop it from entering your camera without impacting on the target signal somewhat.

Mono cams are exactly that, they image in monochrome or greyscale. They might be slightly sharper but sharpness will be determined more by your seeing conditions, the resolution of your scope and your pixel imaging scale. Mono cameras are actually faster at acquiring signal as every pixel is used to register the wavelength of light they are seeing, a OSC has a Bayer matrix pattern consisting of typically an R, G then below it a G and B pixel, think of the four as one super pixel, those pixels will only respond when the corresponding photon is filtered to pass and hit the sensor. Now the issue of speed is highly dependent on the individual. With an OSC you can image for say 30-60 minutes although short, you'll have complete data to finish an image. Unless you are accustomed to changing filters and taking flats quickly (usually fully automated) you'll struggle to do the same in mono. So with this simplified example the mono image acquisition usually takes longer to complete a project, I usually only image with one filter per session as a result. With total exposure time being equal the mono will usually look slightly better but OSC cameras nowadays are so good there's minimal difference for an amatuer.

The massive difference a mono camera has, you can image in any band you wish with appropriate filters, this means you can image "through" LP and even on full moon nights (O3 band is the exception), I've often imaged with my target right next to the moon. With an OSC camera I'd be lucky to get a decent result in the same conditions if the moon was in the next quadrant or other half of the sky (if you've never been somewhere truly dark you cannot believe how bright the moon actually is and how much it washes out the stars in the night sky). So with a mono people normally buy a hydrogen alpha HA, Sulphur ii S2 and an Oxygen iii O3 filter, when combined in software mapping S2 to Red, HA to green and O3 to blue you get the Hubble pallette image which looks typically yellowish-orange-brown-blue if the overpowering HA signal is toned down.

With OSC you can now get the similar benefits of mono shooting through LP with narrowband (dual, tri, quad) filters which typically concentrate on allowing the HA and O3 signal through. Filters like Optolongs Enhance/Extreme/Ultimate series (each progressive one has a narrower and narrower bandpass), Antlia ALPT, Idas NBZ among others all attempt to do the same thing, either way if you've been using an LP filter and have never tried one of these narrowband filters you'll be shocked at the signal you'll receive.

You don't need a filter wheel (I felt it's an unnecessary complication and expense), most field flatteners if using a refractor allow you to fit 2 inch filters or you can adapt down to 1.25 inch as long as that size is larger than the diagonal of your sensor. Otherwise a filter drawer after the flattener is a simple interchangeable solution.