Starnet++ for Siril on a mac M1.

[Mark2022]

Why do programmers assume people who wish to use their programme/application know coding or how to troubleshoot or even know the language of coders/programmers?

 

I'm using Siril for the first time and, while that in itself is a learning curve, I simply want to add the Starnet++ app to enable me to create starless versions of my image. However, i'm faced with Starnet saying there are issues with Mac M1 installs plus I have no idea, when downloading the Starnet Command line package for Mac, what file needs to be added where.

 

Essentially then, does anyone know of a "Starnet++ install to mac M1 and Siril for dummies"? Or is there some wizard out there who can just talk us through it?

 

Merci Beaucoup!

[The Admiral]

I agree, it annoys me too. I did try but couldn't make it work, but couldn't fathom it. BUT, I then found this recent YouTube video from Nebula Photos.

At about 28 minutes in, he talks about using the new command line version for M-chip Apple computers. It's a very clear explanation, though I haven't got around to trying it yet. The best, if not only, description of how to do this I've found.

Let us know how you get on.

Ian

 

[Mark2022]

Hi Ian,

Thanks for that. I have downloaded that new M1 folder (strangely, I don't get a zip version, just the folder itself) and I'm still having problems. However, I'm still having problems with Siril overall. Photometric colour calibration never seems to work for me. In Background subtraction, if I right click on the red dots at all to remove them, Siril just closes and I have to start all over again. No point in trying to find an answer as to why this happens because finding solutions to problems is all I'd ever do with my life! 

A main issue for me, I think, is I can also watch tons of videos on processing but, while it all seems straightforward while watching, when it comes to my own images, I just can't get the stretches needed to bring out the detail I want and can't get the colour balancing right at all. A lot of these guys use Photoshop too and I use Affinity Photo but, even so, they're similar but I find being totally uninterested in coding, coupled with being brand new to photo processing, plus trying to understand what Siril and Affinity (or Photoshop) procedures to use to  'fix' what etc etc etc, is just one huge struggle. Siril says "Just do this, then that and it's all good". No, it's not and neither Siril or Affinity (or Photoshop) have any good, basic tutorials to take you through the steps of install, use of and why one uses different aspects of the programs.

Why Starnet can't just have a link to download then add an "exe" type file into your Siril folder, is beyond me. Every other program I download (outside of astrophotography) seems to be capable of doing this.

[The Admiral]

No, I haven't been able to get photometric colour calibration to work either, except for once! I've seen this raised on the forum but the reply was too techie and just not helpful.

I think you are at a great disadvantage not having any experience of any photo processing. Getting to grips with any new software is always going to be a challenge. All you can do is keep practicing. Different softwares have differing methodologies, so it's worth trying a few to see if you are more comfortable working with one over the others. You can always switch later as you gain more experience. Have you looked at StarTools? That's quite different to the rest.

Good luck.

Ian

[Leti Theobald]

Hi Mark, 

I’ve been using Siril with a Mac for a while now and it does get easier, I love it now.

with Starnet it is not straightforward but this video helped me:

with Photometric Calibration, I use it every time. I found it that when it fails is because it pulls the incorrect focal length for my telescope. You can change it manually before running the calibration. Hopefully that is the case.

There is another YouTube channel dedicated to Siril processing only and it helped me a lot in the beginning. Let me know if you are interested and I can dig it out for you. 
 

Leti

Edited June 27, 2023 by Leti Theobald

[The Admiral]

IIRC that video is OK for the Intel Macs, but the M-series using Apple's chip is a little different, but there are potential significant speed advantages if using the M chip.

At about 19 minutes in on the Nebula Photos video, Nico Carver covers the standard command line tool for MacOS. Unlike the tool for the M chip, with this version it will be necessary to cater for Mac's security features. Hence the extra complication of installation.

Mark, also make sure that you are running the latest version of Starnett; I think it needs versions Beta 2 and later to work with the M-chip CLI tool (https://www.starnetastro.com/experimental/)

Ian

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by The Admiral

[The Admiral]

6 hours ago, Leti Theobald said:

with Photometric Calibration, I use it every time. I found it that when it fails is because it pulls the incorrect focal length for my telescope.

I've checked that and it seems to be correct. Generally, I find that it returns "insufficient number of stars" amongst others, which is odd really as the image works with astrometry.net. Ideally, I suppose keeping the star catalogues on your local machine helps, especially with speeding up the process. Again, though, that is described in quite techie language, which I can't follow.

Ian

[Leti Theobald]

1 hour ago, The Admiral said:

I've checked that and it seems to be correct. Generally, I find that it returns "insufficient number of stars" amongst others, which is odd really as the image works with astrometry.net. Ideally, I suppose keeping the star catalogues on your local machine helps, especially with speeding up the process. Again, though, that is described in quite techie language, which I can't follow.

Ian

I few other things you can try:

• Zoom in on Siril on the object you are trying to calibrate, it could be that you are far and it's not plate solving.
• Make sure you have it AutoStretched when you do it, not on linear

If you want to send me your stacked image I can have a go and see what the issue is

Any luck on Startnet - I also have a M1 Mac so I know it was a bit painful getting it going

[Mark2022]

On 26/06/2023 at 22:06, The Admiral said:

No, I haven't been able to get photometric colour calibration to work either, except for once! I've seen this raised on the forum but the reply was too techie and just not helpful.

I think you are at a great disadvantage not having any experience of any photo processing. Getting to grips with any new software is always going to be a challenge. All you can do is keep practicing. Different softwares have differing methodologies, so it's worth trying a few to see if you are more comfortable working with one over the others. You can always switch later as you gain more experience. Have you looked at StarTools? That's quite different to the rest.

Good luck.

Ian

I asked the same question on "Cloudynights" and got this (and it, eventually, worked):

Happy Mac M1 user here: KStars/Ekos, Pixinsight, ASTAP, ASI Studio, iOptron Polar, Stellarium, ... all run nicely along. BlurXTerminator on the Neural engine of this chip is actually faster than on my PC. So there is light at this expensive path of hardware.

 

I am still waiting for PHD2 to run on Apple Silicon... and I also wished RSpec and Autostakkert! would be available for Mac at all. But well,... 

 

 

 

I downloaded Starnetv2CLI and got it to work rather quickly (notes at the bottom). I am actually PLEASANTLY surprised that this beautiful tool works. I know Apple and command line seems counterintuitive, but the fact the you have an underlying UNIX at your disposal is awesome. Ignoring it is like having an expensive Swiss army knife and only using its toothpick.

 

Ok, so here we go: download the CLI: https://starnetastro...v2CLI_MacOS.zip, then double-click to expand the archive.

 

Assuming the file/folder is in your Downloads folder:

 

Open a command line (search terminal.app in Finder) and run each line individually.

 

When you get to the 5th command (starnet++) you will get several security warning stating that Apple cannot verify the developer and thus blocks the execution of the binary and both tensorflow libraries (at least it should). Go to Settings/Privacy & Security and allow the software to run. As I said, this will need to be done 4 times.

mv ~/Downloads/StarNetv2CLI_MacOS/ . cd StarNetv2CLI_MacOS/ chmod +x run_starnet.sh chmod +x starnet++ starnet++ ./starnet++ rgb_test.tif out.tif open .

The last command will open the local folder and you can take a look and compare rgb_test.tif and out.tif.

 

Most pleased!!! 

[Mark2022]

On 27/06/2023 at 10:10, Leti Theobald said:

I few other things you can try:

• Zoom in on Siril on the object you are trying to calibrate, it could be that you are far and it's not plate solving.
• Make sure you have it AutoStretched when you do it, not on linear

If you want to send me your stacked image I can have a go and see what the issue is

Any luck on Startnet - I also have a M1 Mac so I know it was a bit painful getting it going

Yes, got Starnet working. See above. Also, I had downloaded two slightly different versions of the Starnet folder and that 'helped' my confusion. As for Photometric colour calibration, I'll just keep stabbing at it. Having Starnet to work with was my main goal (for now) since it allows for so much better processing (as you know).

[The Admiral]

1 hour ago, Mark2022 said:

When you get to the 5th command (starnet++) you will get several security warning stating that Apple cannot verify the developer and thus blocks the execution of the binary and both tensorflow libraries (at least it should).

The experimental version which uses Torch and Open CV instead of the tensorflow libraries is fully signed, so you shouldn't have the issue of Apple blocking installation. "This version contains signed binaries (so there should be no problems installing it) and should be blazingly fast on M1 CPUs". The advantage of using this version I gather is that it runs much faster than the previous version of the Mac CLI.

Ian 

[Mark2022]

56 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

The experimental version which uses Torch and Open CV instead of the tensorflow libraries is fully signed, so you shouldn't have the issue of Apple blocking installation. "This version contains signed binaries (so there should be no problems installing it) and should be blazingly fast on M1 CPUs". The advantage of using this version I gather is that it runs much faster than the previous version of the Mac CLI.

Ian 

30 x 90 second exposures of Cygnus region using a non modded Nikon D5500 with a Samyang 85mm F1.4 lens stopped down to F4 on a StarAdventurer 2i and ball head mount. I'd been trying to get a decent processed image for some weeks but couldn't. With Starnet, I can. Processed in Siril and then final touches in Affinity Photo. Not at all perfect but I'm brand new to imaging and, for now, I'm happy with that.