Advise me about starting the observing hobby

[Raychin]

Hello! I know….

But… I want to start stargazing. I have a lot of time and good terrace to put a telescope on. Mainly i want to observe the night sky - planets, Moon, some bright deep sky objects ( if i manage to see more than a bright dot). And yes i want it with go-to so my wife can use it as well but just like a user. I have made some research, but i am still a bit confused. My budget is about 1000-1200€. So far i am into these options :

1. https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/bresser-telescope-ac-102-600-ar-102s-messier-hexafoc-exos-2-goto/p,54275
2. https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php?products_id=11365#cs
3. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bresser-telescopes/bresser-messier-ar-127s-635-refractor-ota.html
4. Celestron 5/6 SE

I have a DSLR but i will take few images, i want to stargaze and stare the night sky, as i mentioned. My location is in the city,  but i can move to dark locations, so it’s not needed the scope to be very portable. I know the Celestron 8SE is one of the best starting points, but maybe i prefer a less powerful scope, but to upgrade step-by-step with eyepieces, filters, lenses. The above mentioned scopes are not obliged and i accept any suggestions.

Thank you in advance!

[Cosmic Geoff]

It's ultimately up to you what 'scope you get. 

Of your options, 1) is most suited to widefield use and won't be so great on planets or close double stars.  'Achromatic' refractors of short focal ratio like this one have some chromatic aberration. (BTW it is not too dissimilar to a setup I use for EAA imaging (q.v. ) of deep sky objects with a ASI224MC astro camera). 

Long old-style achromats, ED and APO refractors have less chromatic aberration, but require an expensive mount (achromats) or ££££ (ED or APO).

2) is more suited to high magnification, narrow field,  planetary and double star observation (and city skies).  My first GoTo scope was a 127mm Maksutov and I was really pleased with it and intend to keep it.

3) as 1) but it is just the OTA, no mount.

4)  I have an 8SE.  It's a good scope, and a popular outfit.  Nothing wrong with the 4SE and 5SE. (BTW the 4SE is a Maksutov with a camera port.) The Celestron outfits are now somewhat expensive, and the SE mounts are intended for visual, portable use and are on the wobbly side.  The same remarks apply to the various other Celestron outfits (SLT etc).  The AVX and CPC mounts are solid (but expensive and not lightweight).

Somebody is sure to reply suggesting that you instead buy a Dobsonian. It's up to you.  If you really want GoTo and want to invest the extra money and setup time, go for it... 

As for imaging, if you buy one of the above and attach the DSLR, you will discover why other solutions may be required for serious imaging.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Cosmic Geoff

[M40]

Hello Raychin and welcome to the site. 

I like your second choice as Maksutov telescopes are great for solar system stuff, but the upgrade path on that combination is limited, so how about an alternative using a similar telescope on an alternative mount? 

Your third choice is quite heavy so a suitable mount will be expensive.

All the best and enjoy looking 👍 

[Astronomist]

Welcome to the forum Raychin!

 Of the telescopes listed, I think the Nexstar se would be the one to go for, it will give great views of both planets and the brighter DSOs, and the nextar se mount is quite intuitive and easy to understand.

as Cosmic Geoff says the Bresser 102xs is going to suffer from chromatic aberration, combined with its short focal length it will be less suited to viewing the planets, but it should put up good wide-field views of star clusters, ect

the bresser maksutov is very well suited for planetary observing, but the focal ratio is likely too slow to be useful for deep sky observing.

Clear skies!

PS: you will also probably want a few eyepieces for the scope as the bundled ones are almost universally rubbish

Edited December 30, 2022 by Astronomist

[Raychin]

Thank you for the comments!

Well - i am open for alternatives and for suggestions for eyepieces! I am not limited to those options above, in fact i am more close to : 

https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/celestron-n-200-1000-advanced-vx-as-vx-8-goto-telescope/p,32998 but i am not sure if this is not a bit overkill…. It is nit compact, but have power, goto, great mount, and possible good options for upgrade. What you think?

[Cosmic Geoff]

18 minutes ago, Raychin said:

https://www.astroshop.eu/telescopes/celestron-n-200-1000-advanced-vx-as-vx-8-goto-telescope/p,32998 but i am not sure if this is not a bit overkill…. It is nit compact, but have power, goto, great mount, and possible good options for upgrade. What you think?

Nice outfit, but on the downside I found the combination of 8" Newtonian + equatorial mount not very user-friendly.  The eyepiece can attain an awkward position or extreme height.  You could image with this, but the big tube will be a bit of a wind-sail.  

If you are willing to spend this much (or more) consider the Nexstar Evolution 8 (with 8" SCT) , the CPC800, or the C8 with AVX, which will all be easier to manage.   The CPC800 is great for planetary imaging, and the AVX would offer more imaging options, depending on what scope you mount on it.  The CPC800 is heavy...

Be aware that if you are only interested in visual, or your imaging ambitions only extend to planets, you will find an alt-azimuth GoTo less of a bother to set up than an equatorial one, and equally effective.

Edited December 30, 2022 by Cosmic Geoff

[Raychin]

Aha… well less astrography and main use for visual observation. I already know the azimuth mount is user friendlier let’s say. The last is a bit huge, yes. Well for the city skies and pure beginner, maybe my initial option 2 will do the job for a while? 

[Astronomist]

I would definitely advise against a 8" equatorial newt, unless you are very tall and have the flexibility of a gymnast, as the eyepiece will get into some very odd positions. as for eyepieces I would not hesitate to recommend the BST starguiders or OVL / skywatcher nirvanas, however since the mounts of all your options track you would most likely be fine with much cheaper plossls. The bresser mak ought to keep you busy for a while and give nice views of the planets, but if you can afford it i would follow Cosmic Geoff's advice and get a nextar evo 8.

[Carbon Brush]

I would not rule out an 8" equatorial newt. That was my first 'proper' telescope (early this century) and I don't need to duck to get through doors.
Since then I have always had at least one 8" or 10" newt.

An EQ mount takes a little effort to get your head around. But once learned, it is in there for life, like riding a bike.
The great benefit of EQ is that a manual mount needs only one knob turning to follow an object. If you upgrade to a basic motor drive, it tracks for a reasonable time.

The eyepiece can move around. The usual solution is to carefully slacken the mounting rings and rotate the tube.
However, if you buy an exra mounting ring and fasten this below the existing rings, you don't need take care about letting the tube slip.

I suggest forgetting astrophotography beyond a DSLR or phone, or something with a few seconds exposure.
Beyond that you start to show errors in mounts and the money gets out of control🤨

An 8" newt for visual is great. You get a lot of light collection for the money spent.
If it is a half decent scope, magnification will more often be limited by sky stability than the optics.

Having said this. I have the Bresser '102 refractor you mention. A nicely built scope that I'm going to keep for a long time.
Chromatic abberration may annoy you and it is a lot less light gether than a big reflector. But more portable.

Have you been able to grab hold of, or look through any similar scopes?
Web pages and real life experience are often different.
Size and weight are just numbers on a web page. They are very different when storing, setting up and using.

Keep asking the questions.

David.

[Spile]

I think it’s good to get a range of views in order to see if anyone’s experiences resonate with you. It’s also good to see a high percentage of users are saying and recommending the same thing. I’ve purposely not recommended a particular type of telescope in this comment because I have done so on plenty of other occasions. 🙂

 

[Guest]

Before I dropped any coin I would highly recommend finding and astro club and look at whats available.    Amateur astronomers are more then willing to show you their toys and answer questions about them.  Look at all the scopes you can and the accessories that come with them.   Once you star playing with them you will figure out what you like and what you dont like.  Eventually the cream will rise to the top and you will know exactly what you want 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Mike Q

[Raychin]

The 8" Newtonian + equatorial mount was just a suggestion about the visual approach i want, hence i am 187cm and will manage the height. But the body positions will be strange, i admit. Since i am from Bulgaria, here the Orion belt, per example, is straight ahead from my terrace, but everything else will be sometimes at 90dg upwards, so yes this is my last option. The fact is that here we don’t have astro-clubs. The only place where i can see a telescope is in my city central walking street, where a guy every night deploys a 8” dubsonian, and in the photo stores and malls where one can only see Celestron Astromaster 70/90 AZ at most. So i cant’t actually see and touch by myself what’s will my best option. I have experience with my other hobby - airgun shooting. There there is 2 main categories : spring or pcp. I knew i want pcp but still inopted for the spring and in matter of 2 months i was involved with selling the spring and getting pcp of my type, not a gun for shootouts, not a gun with Star Trek design, but a good high power pcp gun for my pleasure. So all this is to explain why i want at least goto mount, what I want - visual and eye observing, minimal to non astrography. But still from the beginning - i don’t want a “white elephant” telescope to stay somewhere in my apartment.  The Bresser Messier MCX-127 have a double fork, and i have read that this is very stable base mainly for imaging, but i assume and for amateur first steps in observation. I honestly don’t have a deep research about the quality of different telescope brands, but i definitely want a high quality build brand telescope.   Celestron Evo are just above my very budget top, so for now i will ruled them out. I don’t mind to by a second hand scope as well; a tube and goto mount separately too. That’s why i need ideas, brands, models within what i have already cleared out in my mind - visual mainly planets, Moon, some bright deep skies   Recently i watched Sky Watcher Skymax 150 and goto tripod mount for this scope. What you think about it? 

[Cosmic Geoff]

58 minutes ago, Raychin said:

The 8" Newtonian + equatorial mount was just a suggestion about the visual approach i want, hence i am 187cm and will manage the height.

You can reduce the height by retracting the tripod legs. But then you will have trouble observing low objects if there is a 2metre high board fence in the way...  Large Dobsonians have similar issues.  That's why it is advisable to at least see these things in the metal before buying...

 

1 hour ago, Raychin said:

 The Bresser Messier MCX-127 have a double fork, and i have read that this is very stable base mainly for imaging,

It should be very stable.

We don't know what brands are available to you in Bulgaria.  Celestron and Sky-watcher are OK if you avoid the very cheapest models.  I've heard good things about some Bresser models.

[Raychin]

Here in Bulgaria the only thing on the market is Celestron 70/90 AZ. I will buy my telescope from abroad for sure! Well it is ok my terrace is on top of my building and there is a terrain slope in front of it, so my nearest building ahead of point of view is lower than the horizon and the mountain ahed. But i am limited to South, South- East and South- West skies, as well as very top since my pergola is electrical and can be retracted for 90dgr view of Polar star. Yes, should be more stable, but the fork is not the prime for me, the big eye is  So Skywatcher Skymax can it be a good starting point to my observation? And if Yes, with which goto mount should i paired it?

[Franklin]

2 minutes ago, Raychin said:

But i am limited to South, South- East and South- West skies,

Those directions are the best to have. Objects in the sky are best observed when they are at their highest and that point in the sky is the meridian, which is due South.

[bosun21]

24 minutes ago, Raychin said:

So Skywatcher Skymax can it be a good starting point to my observation?

The Skywatcher Skymax is a decent and competent telescope for sure. It’s fantastic for all the planets and even imaging them is doable. It’s also decent for the smaller, brighter DSO’s. I have seen people using 0.5x or 0.6x reducers in them to increase the FOV, although I have no experience of doing this. I bought my 127 on the alt/az go to mount which served me well for over a year, which I still use to grab a quick session between clouds. The downsides of Skymax is that they take a while to cool down to reach ambient temperature and that they are dew magnets. The later is easily solved with a heated dew shield. Good luck with whatever you choose.

[Raychin]

Yeah the cooldown of about 30-40min is must i have read. Also the dew shield is also a must have it here in Sofia. I live in a relatively greenish neighbourhood and there is a lot of moist here. Well Skymax… let’s say i am on to it. I need a goto tripod mount…. I assume the Sky watcher mount for beginner, so Azimuth one. What will be string enough to support the scope itself and the torque from the rotation?

[M40]

The dew shield should be the first thing on your shopping list if you go for the skymax. It does two things, the first is helping with dew and the second is it helps cut down stray light.

When you think about the mount, add the weight of the telescope together with the eyepiece, finder scope, diagonals etc, it's surprising how the weight adds up. Make sure whichever mount you choose it can handle the weight plus some.

Next step is think about where you are going to keep it.

When I used a tripod with the skymax, I never really had any problems with cool down as by the time I got it all setup it was more or less there.

With your field of view, you will be well postioned to see solar system stuff 👌 all the best.

[Astronomist]

For the skymax 150 an eq5 class mount would be the size to go for, at 5.2kg OTA only being somewhat to heavy for an eq3.

[Cosmic Geoff]

40 minutes ago, Astronomist said:

For the skymax 150 an eq5 class mount would be the size to go for, at 5.2kg OTA only being somewhat to heavy for an eq3.

Agreed.  This OTA is a bit too heavy for all the "Budget" altazimuth GoTo mounts, and while there are heavier duty alt-azimuth GoTo mounts, they cost even more than an EQ5 Synscan.  An EQ5 is one of the few mounts that can be had in the basic (manual) form, or with electric drives, or with the full GoTo, and any of these things can be added to the manual version as aftermarket kits. 

An EQ-5 is a good mount to have, as it is fairly solid and you can hang all sorts of scopes, up to  9 or 10Kg (visual) on it.

[Raychin]

Well, after all have read and all opinions here and there, i’ve decided to go to Celestron 8SE. It is a perfect start for my new hobby. Well known telescope, with everything a need - great for visual, not so heavy, go - to and have opportunity for further upgrade. I will start with the basics with this scope, with a mobile phone attachment, some  barlow lens (2X), some filters, and will start gazing. I will keep you posted in separate topics, keep asking questions, and keep reading, and most of all a lot of time spend watching the skies from here and there!

thank you all, again, and Happy New Year and clear skies.

[Cosmic Geoff]

2 hours ago, Raychin said:

some  barlow lens (2X),

I wouldn't. The eyepieces I use with my C8 SE range from 32mm to 8mm.  I never use a Barlow lens with it for visual.  The focal length is 2000mm which means the highest useful magnification is attained with  around 8mm on most targets.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Cosmic Geoff

[Raychin]

20 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

I wouldn't. The eyepieces I use with my C8 SE range from 32mm to 8mm.  I never use a Barlow lens with it for visual.  The focal length is 2000mm which means the highest useful magnification is attained with  around 8mm on most targets.

Thank you for that advice! I will follow it!

Can i ask about the eyepieces? Should i buy mid lvl brands and models or it is ok as a complete amateur, to start with the upper models and brands? I don’t imagine that i will see live image of Jupiter, Saturn, Mars just like in NG magazine!  But will be a noticeable difference of view between the different lvls of eyepieces with the naked eye gazing thought them?

[Cosmic Geoff]

4 hours ago, Raychin said:

Thank you for that advice! I will follow it!

Can i ask about the eyepieces? Should i buy mid lvl brands and models or it is ok as a complete amateur, to start with the upper models and brands? I don’t imagine that i will see live image of Jupiter, Saturn, Mars just like in NG magazine!  But will be a noticeable difference of view between the different lvls of eyepieces with the naked eye gazing thought them?

Depends what you mean by 'mid level' and 'upper level' eyepieces.  Your proposed purchase, the C8 SE, has a focal ratio of f10 so will not require exotic eyepieces.  If you buy branded eyepieces from Celestron, etc you should be OK.  Plossl eyepieces (like the 25mm you will probably get with the outfit) will be adequate for longer focal lengths, while you will probably want more complex eyepieces with longer eye relief for focal lengths like 8mm. BST Starguider are often recommended here.

For instance I bought a 15mm Celestron Omni Plossl which seems entirely adequate for the C8. 

I have some Celestron X-cel LX which are okay, but one of those will cost you close to 100 euros.   It is possible to spend hundreds of euros on one eyepiece but that would definitely be overkill.  

You should avoid very cheap eyepieces, as if they turn out to be poor you will not have anything to compare them with to judge the quality.  Likewise don't buy a box set of eyepieces as you may find you use only one or two of them.

[Raychin]

Thank you! I am not completely familiar with eyepiece brands, that’s why i said upper model brands or so ( just like a Tata and Mercedes). Well for a 100€ for an eyepiece, that i will use long time, is perfectly ok. Related to this does Celestron Zoom eyepiece 8-24mm 1.25" is something that will be useful or is a toy for a boy?
Now i am after a Dew Shield and ring heater. I am not sure with what the aluminium Celestron Dew shield is better (or it’s not), compared to a soft one fro Celestron or from another brand?