Solved: Why have my frames suddenly become so poor?

[OutThereSomewhere]

SOLVED: User Error! Please see my explanatory post further down the thread.

Can anyone please give me some advice about why my frames are so “rough” looking?

I’ve obtained good planetary images before, but for some reason, the capture quality in my last two sessions has been very poor, but I can’t identify the cause. Any suggestions are welcome!

I've attached a screenshot of the poor quality frames that I was achieving.

During the imaging session, the seeing was very good and I focussed using a bahtinov mask, so I don’t think that the problem is caused by seeing or focus.

Equipment:

Camera: ZWO ASI290MC

Mount: NEQ6 Pro with good polar alignment

Scope: Celestron SE6

Laptop: Inspiron 15 5000; Windows 11

Software: I tried Sharpcap, Firecapture and ASICap, using 2 and 3 minute duration videos, as AVI and SER, as RAW8 format, all with the same poor quality. I tried varying the USB speed, but it made no difference. I also varied the frames per second, but always got the same poor quality frames.

I’ve achieved way better results using this equipment in the past. The only thing that I can say was different this time was the temperature was -7 degrees C, which is much colder than on previous sessions.

When I ran the 2 or 3 minute videos through PIPP, the output video was only 16 seconds long!

When I ran the videos through Autostakkert, the quality histogram showed the frames to be so poor that I could hardly see them at the bottom of the chart.

I'm pretty sure that I've just made some basic mistake, but I can't figure it out, so please help!

I've attached some SharpCap screenshots that show my settings.

EDITED to attach screenshots because my original post was not showing the images when copied & pasted into the post.

 

   

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by OutThereSomewhere
EDITED to say the problem has been solved

[CraigT82]

Not sure about anyone else but I can’t see the images in your post? 

[Kon]

Same here

[geoflewis]

and here, those links don't work for me....

[Kon]

It could be down to poor seeing. Your screen shot shows some good features that I would be happy with during a capture. My only advice is do not use a bahtitov mask but focus on the planet features as the focus constantly changes with the seeing. FPS seems on the low side for the settings but I use asicap so I cannot help here but others might be able to.

[geoflewis]

Ok, I can now see the images. I don't use SharpCap, but I'm surprised that you're only getting 30 fps at 2.91ms with the 290 chip. I have a 290MM and would easily get over 100fps in FireCapture.

[OutThereSomewhere]

I tried various FPS, some up to 200FPS if I remember. The screenshot shows 30FPS because I took the screenshot when I was experimenting with different frame rates to see if that was the problem. It made no difference. I don't think it's a focussing or seeing issue because the seeing was consistently good at the time. I know that the bahtinov mask isn't recommended for planetary, but using it, I won't be far off. I've used this method to get good results in the past. I've got a feeling that the problem has more to do with my software settings.

[CraigT82]

Are you able to upload the raw capture video somewhere so we can download and have a play? The image of the raw frame looks ok to me

[geoflewis]

8 minutes ago, OutThereSomewhere said:

I tried various FPS, some up to 200FPS if I remember. The screenshot shows 30FPS because I took the screenshot when I was experimenting with different frame rates to see if that was the problem. It made no difference. I don't think it's a focussing or seeing issue because the seeing was consistently good at the time. I know that the bahtinov mask isn't recommended for planetary, but using it, I won't be far off. I've used this method to get good results in the past. I've got a feeling that the problem has more to do with my software settings.

Have you check your scope's collimation? As @Kon says, there's detail showing in that screen grab, so you're not too far away. Have you posted any of your processed images, it might help to see one of those, or even a video if you can share one of those here. I definitely wouldn't rely on a B-mask for focusing on the planets. When you say 'the seeing was consistently good at the time', how are you determining that? Are you saying that the on screen image was good, or just relying on looking at the sky. Personally, I can only assess the seeing for planetary imaging when I have an image on screen and can see how stable the image is, or not.....

[OutThereSomewhere]

I've solved my problem. It was self-inflicted!

When I ran the AVI / SER file through PIPP, I had - in error - somehow checked "Enable Quality Estimation" in the Quality Options tab. This by default, puts some constraints on the number of frames to keep and reorders the frames in order of quality. So I think that this reduced the length of my movie from 2 minutes to 16 seconds when PIPP processed it and produced it's output.

I unchecked the "Enable Quality Estimation" tickbox and processed it through PIPP. The output was a 2 minute movie, which I was able to successfully process through Autostakkert and adjust wavelets in Registax as I normally would. This produced the quality of image that I expected. Phew!

But I take on board Geof's and Kon's advice - I really appreciate it. I'm going to have to ween myself off the B/mask to use a better method, but I struggle to focus with the standard Celestron SE6 focus knob. I probably need a robotic focusser. 

Thanks again for all the input from everyone. I hope that my lesson may help someone else in future!

Cheers,

Jonathan

[geoflewis]

9 minutes ago, OutThereSomewhere said:

I've solved my problem. It was self-inflicted!

When I ran the AVI / SER file through PIPP, I had - in error - somehow checked "Enable Quality Estimation" in the Quality Options tab. This by default, puts some constraints on the number of frames to keep and reorders the frames in order of quality. So I think that this reduced the length of my movie from 2 minutes to 16 seconds when PIPP processed it and produced it's output.

I unchecked the "Enable Quality Estimation" tickbox and processed it through PIPP. The output was a 2 minute movie, which I was able to successfully process through Autostakkert and adjust wavelets in Registax as I normally would. This produced the quality of image that I expected. Phew!

But I take on board Geof's and Kon's advice - I really appreciate it. I'm going to have to ween myself off the B/mask to use a better method, but I struggle to focus with the standard Celestron SE6 focus knob. I probably need a robotic focusser. 

Thanks again for all the input from everyone. I hope that my lesson may help someone else in future!

Cheers,

Jonathan

That's great to hear Jonathon, glad you got it sorted. How about sharing the final image that you got, I'd love to see it. Now that I know that you're using the manual focus knob on your SE6, I can better understand why you start off with a B-Mask. Certainly an electronic focuser would make life easier for you, but I know some folks still get excellent results without one.

[Kon]

21 minutes ago, OutThereSomewhere said:

When I ran the AVI / SER file through PIPP, I had - in error - somehow checked "Enable Quality Estimation" in the Quality Options tab. This by default, puts some constraints on the number of frames to keep and reorders the frames in order of quality. So I think that this reduced the length of my movie from 2 minutes to 16 seconds when PIPP processed it and produced it's output.

Do use the quality estimation but change from the default of frames to percent of frames. I tend to go for 60-80% depending on the conditions.

8 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

Now that I know that you're using the manual focus knob on your SE6, I can better understand why you start off with a B-Mask. Certainly an electronic focuser would make life easier for you, but I know some folks still get excellent results without one.

23 minutes ago, OutThereSomewhere said:

But I take on board Geof's and Kon's advice - I really appreciate it. I'm going to have to ween myself off the B/mask to use a better method, but I struggle to focus with the standard Celestron SE6 focus knob. I probably need a robotic focusser. 

I am all manual, tracking and focusing so you should be able to get some good images with our setup without major upgrades.

 

Yes post your final image, it will be nice to see the end result.