More of a "Am I making the right choice as a beginner?" rather than "What is the best scope for beginners?" post

[dybz]

I am looing for a telescope primarily for my kids, but also something the entire family would enjoy. I have narrowed the search down to a 5" or 6" tabletop type scope (Zhummell z130, Sky-Watcher 130p/150p heritage, etc.). My preference here is for simplicity and lightweight so my wife can also pick it up and take the kids outside to use it without me sometimes. So the big Dobs would be a bit much at 40-50 lbs (I understand they come apart, but again - looking for simplicity). We live in a somewhat well lit area so I am a bit worried that the open design of the Sky-Watchers would create issues and since we are going for simplicity adding the shroud complicates things a bit. The Zhummell seems like a great scope, but I think I have a bit of FOMO with the 5" vs 6" Sky-Watcher. I see that Orion used to make a Starblast 6, but that seems tough to find and after shipping/taxes a bit over budget at $650 as I prefer to stay under $500. Apertura also makes a 6" f/5 as does Celestron with their Omni XLT 6", but both sell as OTA only for $300. With a good mount it seems like I would be well over $500. So I guess the question is - am I really missing out on much sticking with the 5/650 Zhummell if I get some good eye pieces or would it really be a big step up to one of the 6/750 scopes with their stock eye pieces?

Edited October 5, 2022 by dybz

[sorrimen]

It’s a good question to ask, and quite a tough one to answer. Whilst the stock eyepieces can keep you entertained for a while, perhaps even a lifetime, the vast majority of people will want to upgrade. 

I’m not sure of the US prices, so don’t know how different the zhummel and 150p are, but I would suggest $100 aside for eyepieces is a good starting place. That said, it all depends on how strict your budget is; if it’s $500 (arbitrary value) for all telescope equipment forever, I would probably suggest a $400 scope and $100 eyepieces, but if it’s $500 on the scope and you could stretch another $50 on an eyepiece or two the month after then it’s that choice for sure. In that analogy the $400 is 5” and the $500 is 6”, hopefully you get my point. Of course, the actual difference in their prices will change how relevant that is, so take the above with a pinch of salt.

Eyepieces are something usually acquired over time as you realise what you need and prefer. Whilst upgrading from 5” to 6” won’t be very worthwhile, starting out with the 6” is definitely the best choice if you can buy eyepieces in the coming months. The heritage 150p is also just a very well built and capable scope and you just cannot go wrong.

The stray light issue could be problematic for contrast and glare, but I don’t think a shroud necessarily has to be much of a hassle. I haven’t made a truss shroud myself, so hopefully someone who has can weigh in, but I’ve made a dew shield type shroud for my full sized dob just out of a camping mat and it’s no bother. Not the same thing, but there are many people who have DIYed a shroud so it may be easier than it seems.

I’ve probably not taken everything into account e.g. how they hold collimation etc., so wait for others to weigh in too but that’s my initial take.

[lvan]

For your needs the closed tube table top Z130 is a good choice. With the heritage, kids (and some adults, not me of course!) could unscrew the focuser too much that the eyepiece falls out. On grass it's ok, not so hot on concrete. Also, the open tube nature will invite fingers and breath onto the secondary. Yes you could make a shroud but it's not something you'll likely do within the first few weeks/months of purchase. 5" vs 6" is not huge. I would look at it like this, get the 130 and use it. Later, when you decide you want a bit more, you can upgrade to an 8inch, or bigger, but you have the choice. Getting the 6 may make the 8inch seem not as viable in future, which could cost you in the long run.

[dybz]

Thanks for the replies. For additional info - the z130 is about $275, heritage 130p about $250, and heritage 150p $310. I am not too concerned about eventually going over $500 with accessories purchased over months, but right now I am limited to about $500 so I think the 6" OTA options are off the table unless there is a good mounting solution under $200.

Are there no other 6/750 options under $500? Europe seems to have the bresser messier for about $400 converted so I'm surprised we don't have anything in that range here. Otherwise if the z130 is close enough to the 6/750 options if I get a slightly nicer eyepiece then I will stick with that.

[Ricochet]

39 minutes ago, dybz said:

Europe seems to have the bresser messier for about $400 converted so I'm surprised we don't have anything in that range here

In the USA the Bresser stuff is sold under the Explore Scientific Firstlight brand (ES and Bresser are sister companies). They've got a 114mm Newtonian on an alt az mount or a 130 on an equatorial. Unfortunately the 130 on an alt az mount is showing as sold out on the ES website, but maybe now you know what it is called you might find a dealer with one in stock. With regards to the two in stock options: 

The 114 comes with a very lightweight mount. It might be a bit wobbly, particularly at high power. 

If you go with the 130/eq option be aware that with an equatorial mount there is one leg on the tripod that always has to point north and that as the mount moves the telescope it also rotates it. As the Newtonian focuser points out of the side of the telescope its position is also rotated. In order to counteract this you or your wife will need to loosen the tube rings and rotate the telescope to put the focuser in a useable position every time you change to a different target. The advantage of the equatorial mount is that once you are set up and have found a target you just have to turn one slow motion knob to keep the target centred, which your kids might find easier than the up/down and right tracking of an alt/az. 

[dybz]

20 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

In the USA the Bresser stuff is sold under the Explore Scientific Firstlight brand (ES and Bresser are sister companies). They've got a 114mm Newtonian on an alt az mount or a 130 on an equatorial. Unfortunately the 130 on an alt az mount is showing as sold out on the ES website, but maybe now you know what it is called you might find a dealer with one in stock. With regards to the two in stock options: 

 

Thanks for that info. Unfortunately explore scientific don't seem to carry the bresser messier 6" on a tabletop dob mount like this one:

 

https://www.bresser.de/en/Astronomy/Telescopes/BRESSER-Messier-6-Dobson.html

 

Most unfortunate as it would make the decision easy.

[dybz]

I've been exploring the FLO website and now debating between the Sky watcher skymax 127 and sky watcher explorer 150p. With respective mounts price is identical shipped. Which would be better for planet/moon observation?

[Len1257]

9 hours ago, dybz said:

I've been exploring the FLO website and now debating between the Sky watcher skymax 127 and sky watcher explorer 150p. With respective mounts price is identical shipped. Which would be better for planet/moon observation?

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/ Put your scope and target choices in here and this will give you some idea of each combinations ability.

[Zermelo]

9 hours ago, dybz said:

I've been exploring the FLO website and now debating between the Sky watcher skymax 127 and sky watcher explorer 150p. With respective mounts price is identical shipped. Which would be better for planet/moon observation?

The 150's advantages over the Skymax are a wider field of view, slightly greater light grasp, and slightly better resolution (visibility of fine detail).

For solar system targets, the first two aren't so important. Resolution is important, but my experience using both is that I can't see any difference. And for planets, and especially the moon, you will often want to use magnifications as high as the atmospheric conditions allow; with its longer focal length, the Skymax is easier in that respect. It is also physically shorter, which helps to reduce vibration when operating at the higher mags.

For a general purpose instrument I'd go for the 150, but if you're mainly interested in solar system, the Skymax would probably be better.

[dybz]

Thanks for the comments all. I ended up ordering the Skymax 127 + AZ5 mount head as I have a tripod that should hold these quite nicely. The portability of the Skymax won me over in the end as at its size we could actually take it on a family holiday where skies will be darker. The 150p would definitely not come along with a bigger tripod it would require. Plus starting off I think the kids will be more interested in seeing planets as they would not be able to quite wrap their heads around what the various fuzzy blobs way out in space really are. Maybe eventually I will get a big Dob to go alongside the 127 if the family enjoys the viewing.