What to buy next for a vintage c8

[unkabin]

New here, first post. Please forgive me if this is one of those questions that new people ask ad infinitum.

I have a C8 (1979 or '80 build) mounted on its original tripod (not shown in photo) with the original equatorial wedge. I have seldom used it for the past decade or so, but now that my son is old enough (9) and has become interested, I have found myself really enjoying it. It has an 8x50 finder scope, and I have a 32mm eyepiece, a 2x barlow, and a (cheap) Celestron eyepiece set that I've almost never used.

My question is, what would people recommend I buy next to enhance my experience?

My enjoyment is pretty simple. I like to choose what to look at from SkySafari or elsewhere and to learn about the object (deep sky, double stars, etc.). Then I try to find it using RA/dec coordinates, and then gaze at it. I enjoy the planning and learning, the search, and the reward of discovery. I also like to just look at whatever planets happen to be out or the moon (especially with my son and his friends). I don't have astrophotography aspirations.

Recommendations I've often seen as step-up purchases are:

• focal reducer
• another quality eyepiece to complement my 32mm (but what power?)
• a 2" diagonal and eyepiece?

Any recommendations are highly appreciated!

Edit: I forgot to mention that I was also recently gifted a Nexstar C5, (whose tripod the C8 is sitting shakily on in the photo), so I have a computerized scope. However, my C8 does have a rail, and I might one day be interested in mounts with goto capability.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by unkabin

[Peter Drew]

A few worthwhile additions.  A dew shield (essential),  a binoviewer (not essential but great for Moon and planets), a zoom eyepiece, a fine focus adapter for the focus knob.    🙂  

[unkabin]

1 hour ago, Peter Drew said:

A few worthwhile additions.  A dew shield (essential),  a binoviewer (not essential but great for Moon and planets), a zoom eyepiece, a fine focus adapter for the focus knob.    🙂  

Thanks for the reply. I should have mentioned that I have a dew shield. I had thought about a zoom eyepiece but wasn't sure how the image quality compares to fixed eyepieces.

[Cosmic Geoff]

You mention you have a cheap Celestron eyepiece set. What is in it and why do you not use it? At f10 the C8 is quite tolerant of eyepieces, and a Celestron Omni Plossl eyepiece will work well.  With a decent mount you can use higher powers with a C8 and a 8mm eyepiece will be quite usable in good seeing conditions.

I would say don't buy a focal reducer. They are not cheap and are really intended for imaging.  (I have found that the Celestron f6.3 focal reducer works great with the C8 for imaging certain objects, but you don't express any interest in imaging).

Your first step should be to sort out the eyepiece question.  You really want a set of various focal lengths (but you already have a set?)

If you are looking to get an even wider field than the 32mm eyepiece gives, maybe you should just buy a widefield scope.  The alternative, if you insist, is to buy a 2" visual back, 2" diagonal, and one or more low-power 2" eyepieces, and the cost of these items adds up.

I have a further suggestion which you probably won't like. 🙂  Retire the original mount and buy the C8 the modern GoTo mount that it deserves.  It would go on any mount such as the AVX or the EQ-5 Synscan, but the Celestron SE or Evolution mounts commonly bundled with a C8 nowadays occasionally come up for sale.

[unkabin]

5 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

You mention you have a cheap Celestron eyepiece set. What is in it and why do you not use it? At f10 the C8 is quite tolerant of eyepieces, and a Celestron Omni Plossl eyepiece will work well.  With a decent mount you can use higher powers with a C8 and a 8mm eyepiece will be quite usable in good seeing conditions.

I would say don't buy a focal reducer. They are not cheap and are really intended for imaging.  (I have found that the Celestron f6.3 focal reducer works great with the C8 for imaging certain objects, but you don't express any interest in imaging).

Your first step should be to sort out the eyepiece question.  You really want a set of various focal lengths (but you already have a set?)

If you are looking to get an even wider field than the 32mm eyepiece gives, maybe you should just buy a widefield scope.  The alternative, if you insist, is to buy a 2" visual back, 2" diagonal, and one or more low-power 2" eyepieces, and the cost of these items adds up.

I have a further suggestion which you probably won't like. 🙂  Retire the original mount and buy the C8 the modern GoTo mount that it deserves.  It would go on any mount such as the AVX or the EQ-5 Synscan, but the Celestron SE or Evolution mounts commonly bundled with a C8 nowadays occasionally come up for sale.

Thanks for the reply. The few times I used them, my experience with the other eye pieces was probably affected by bad skies and my own unclear expectations, since I have almost exclusively used the 32mm.

Yes, a mount. Using the Nexstar caused me to look at goto mounts. The price, and to a certain extent moving away from the manual experience, caused me to wonder if there were something else I could add to my C8 that would enhance or broaden the experience. I’ll happily rule out eyepieces for now and learn to better use what I have.

[Clarkey]

I would second the idea of a zoom eyepiece. Although I am primarily an imager I do observe too. I have a Baader Hyperion zoom with the Barlow and I find it to be pretty good. Not cheap, but worth the investment in my opinion. I do have a cheaper zoom which is ok, but the Baader is much better.

[RT65CB-SWL]

On 27/08/2022 at 08:48, Clarkey said:

I would second the idea of a zoom eyepiece. Although I am primarily an imager I do observe too. I have a Baader Hyperion zoom with the Barlow and I find it to be pretty good. Not cheap, but worth the investment in my opinion. I do have a cheaper zoom which is ok, but the Baader is much better.

+1 @Clarkey 

My suggestion would be an SCT diagonal, (assuming the rear port thread size is the same. I prefer it to the the 2" push-fit). I use one with my 're-modded' ETX105 [images below] and my C6/SCT-xlt. 

If you you want/wish to use your C8/SCT with a DSLR or other dedicated imaging camera/device, then a field flattener/focal reducer [FF/FR] will reduce the exposure times.

A few useful and 'maybe' accessories...

• a UHC and/or OIII filter. These will enhance the finer wispy details on 'faint fuzzies'.
• [maybe] a variable polarising filter. I have a 1.25" and 2" - They are a 'Marmite' thing... you either like or dislike them.
• an SCT to 2" visual back... useful if you have access to 2" eyepieces and accessories, (i.e. 2" push-fit star diagonal as mentioned above).
• anything that includes a 'twist-lock'... saves hunting for those lost thumbscrews when they fall out. 
• an eyepiece projection unit/adaptor [EPU] for afocal* astro-imaging. [it's another 'maybe'].

 <--- my EPU shown in centre of image.

 

I managed to get this afocal* image of the Montes Appeninus area of the Moon using a digital compact camera and a 20mm Plossl e/p and EPU attached to my ETX105.

 

* afocal photography, (also called afocal imaging or afocal projection), is a method of photography where the camera with its lens attached is mounted over the eyepiece of another image forming system such as an optical telescope or optical microscope, with the camera lens taking the place of the human eye.

Edited August 28, 2022 by Philip R

[unkabin]

18 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

…but the Celestron SE or Evolution mounts commonly bundled with a C8 nowadays occasionally come up for sale.

I’m seeing an SE mount and tripod for $350 on a classified. That’s in my price range. Does that seem like an appropriate price? Then there’s shipping, cost not listed in the ad.

Edited August 27, 2022 by unkabin

[Cosmic Geoff]

2 hours ago, unkabin said:

I’m seeing an SE mount and tripod for $350 on a classified. That’s in my price range. Does that seem like an appropriate price? Then there’s shipping, cost not listed in the ad.

Could be a good deal if you trust the seller. The implied value of a new SE mount and tripod is about twice that.  Hard to price these mounts as they rarely come up.  For regular items in good condition, over here we reckon around 66% of the new price as being a fair asking price for used astro items.

[unkabin]

3 hours ago, Cosmic Geoff said:

Could be a good deal if you trust the seller. The implied value of a new SE mount and tripod is about twice that.  Hard to price these mounts as they rarely come up.  For regular items in good condition, over here we reckon around 66% of the new price as being a fair asking price for used astro items.

Would it handle the weight of an older C8 of this vintage? I’ve never removed the OTA from the arms to know how much it weighs alone. It looks heavier than modern C8s, but I don’t know in reality. 

[Cosmic Geoff]

10 hours ago, unkabin said:

Would it handle the weight of an older C8 of this vintage? I’ve never removed the OTA from the arms to know how much it weighs alone. It looks heavier than modern C8s, but I don’t know in reality. 

I don't know. Maybe the weight of the older OTAs is on record somewhere.  It's only fair to point out that the modern C8 is at the upper end of what the modern SE8 mount will support. (The same mount is used for the modern C6).  But if you went for the Evolution (also used on C9.25) or a AVX or EQ-5 you should be OK.

[unkabin]

Okay, I took the OTA off the forks and weighed it.

With 8x50 scope and rail, it is 12.2lbs. With that and  1 1/4 diagonal and 32mm Plossl eyepiece, it is 13.2lbs.

So weight seems on par with modern C8.

I think I may buy this used SE mount. I understand they’re not great for photography, but given my budget and lack of current interest in photography, this may work for me.

I’m a touch hesitant because I like finding objects with coordinates and dialing it in. That’s always been part of the fun for me — like birdwatching, I suppose. However, I don’t like the frustration that sometimes comes in when I can’t find something. In particular, the legs on the original tripod don’t adjust beyond small screws near the head that allow slight variation to level by splaying the legs more or less (however, the legs are connected at the base with rods that interlock for stability, so movement is limited). If the surface is not nearly level, then it’s very trying to get the tripod level. And if it’s a bit off, then things can get frustrating.

Edit: to say that the tripod screws don’t really splay the legs but instead allow the head to decenter a bit as the screws are adjusted, kind of like on some Christmas tree stands, such that the head ends up sitting slightly askew. Still, adjustment is quite limited and the process isn’t fun.

Edited August 28, 2022 by unkabin

[SthBohemia]

8 minutes ago, unkabin said:

used SE mount.

Is there some fault with the original fork mount? I adore the old Celestron fork mounts 🙂 The modified Celestron Ultima I use, stability wise, leaves the Skywatcher HEQ6 P for dead!

EP's (nobody will probably agree) but grab a Gary Russell 65mm 2"EP (I wish he still posted to overseas). They are inexpensive and are great performers.

🙂 Just love the old Celestron Orange tube scopes  🙂  I have been trying to buy one of 'em within EU just to tinker with, if nothing else they make nice ornaments!

[Cosmic Geoff]

17 minutes ago, unkabin said:

I like finding objects with coordinates and dialing it in

A small point, but the Goto has a function for finding objects by RA and Dec (after alignment is done).  The SE mount legs are telescopic, but you have probably already seen them under your C5.

[SthBohemia]

If you purchased the Russell EP I mentioned and don't like it you could sell it to ME for whatever price you paid 🙂 

P.S. I would not swap an orange tube C8 for a NEW C8 as like the label attached. Celestron. Torrence.CA  🙂

[unkabin]

28 minutes ago, SthBohemia said:

Is there some fault with the original fork mount? I adore the old Celestron fork mounts 🙂 The modified Celestron Ultima I use, stability wise, leaves the Skywatcher HEQ6 P for dead!

EP's (nobody will probably agree) but grab a Gary Russell 65mm 2"EP (I wish he still posted to overseas). They are inexpensive and are great performers.

🙂 Just love the old Celestron Orange tube scopes  🙂  I have been trying to buy one of 'em within EU just to tinker with, if nothing else they make nice ornaments!

I agree wholeheartedly. The tripod is very stable, and other than the difficulty leveling, which is by design not a defect, there is no problem with the tripod or fork mounts. And, yes, it's beautiful to my eyes, too, and I like having it set up in the corner of the living room. I enjoy using it in the same way I enjoy sailing and working with nautical charts. But using the C5SE was also a bit of an eye opener. Pretty fun to just click and go.

In another matter, I'm also dealing with a cosmetic issue. The scope is beautifully preserved internally, but the paint is flaking off. I don't know if there was a problem during manufacture, or if this is common, or if the previous owner cleaned it with something that affected the paint, but here's a photo of the other side of the tube from the one I picture above. I have it off the forks now and in flaking off the bad paint, almost all the paint is coming off. My plan is to prime and find a flat orange that matches the original as well as I can and repaint.

Edited August 28, 2022 by unkabin

[SthBohemia]

18 minutes ago, unkabin said:

or if this is common

It is actually uncommon! Ya repaint as close to original as possible 🙂  I guess you will totally disassemble the scope before the repainting? May as well give all the optics a clean when it's apart and flock the inside of the tube? With a grease and oil change it will endup good as new 🙂 

You might lookout for an old Ultima tripod, they are very stable. Your Orange would fit perfectly  with its wedge on one...

Edited August 28, 2022 by SthBohemia

[unkabin]

4 minutes ago, SthBohemia said:

It is actually uncommon! Ya repaint as close to original as possible 🙂  I guess you will totally disassemble the scope before the repainting? May as well give all the optics a clean when it's apart and flock the inside of the tube? With a grease and oil change it will endup good as new 🙂 

Yes, that's my plan. And this will be a learning experience so you may see more posts from me with questions about DIY maintenance. I bought the scope 15 years ago, used of course, when eBay was fairly young and buying online was a bit like the wild west. Bought it from a guy in Alaska, and it arrived with the flaking paint. I got an extra $50 refunded, but that wasn't the point. I wanted a collector's item as well as a telescope to use. Hopefully, I can get it back into good shape, but I'm a bit sad that it will no longer be in original condition. I'm already thinking about how I can preserve the "special coatings" label and reattach it after painting!🙂

[SthBohemia]

19 minutes ago, unkabin said:

eBay was fairly young

Ah those were the days 🙂 

Ok in your position I would NOT strip the old paint, would try to keep the scope as original as possible, would probably buy another C8 just 4 the spare parts, possibly going for one with the Ultima fork mount. They are common within USA and often for sale at almost give away prices.. sighs...

http://www.astrosurf.com/benschop/Ultima8PEC.htm (interesting link)

Would seal the edges of the flaking paint with some transparent lacquer and cross fingers! 😞 

Disassembling any of the SCT's is quite simple, there is a thread within SGL where I explained how to pull a Meade LX90 to bits (somewhere, I gotta bad memory). There is an abundance of how to do it re-SCT's throughout the web. Articles within Cloudy Nghts by Rod Mollise are especially good. A few allen keys and a home made C wrench plus a couple of screwdrivers is all that's needed!

I am happy enough to write out the procedure if you wish.

🙂 it's FUN to pull ya SCT to bits, they ENJOY it  🙂 

[SthBohemia]

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/402734-celestron-c8-registry/#entry5161309

Gives a good idea ^^ of the date of manufacture...

[unkabin]

12 minutes ago, SthBohemia said:

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/402734-celestron-c8-registry/#entry5161309

Gives a good idea ^^ of the date of manufacture...

Yes, thanks. I did look this up, and mine appears to be 1980.

[unkabin]

Another question now that I look more closely. My rail is 1 3/4 inches wide, but now I'm seeing that the rail on the SE is much thinner. Can I mount this with a 1 3/4 inch rail?

[SthBohemia]

4 minutes ago, unkabin said:

rail is 1 3/4 inches wide,

Standard 'Vixen' type rail, virtually all mounts have adjustable couplings for various size rails, not an issue 🙂 

Regarding visual backs, a 2" visual back is easy enough to fabricate from bits and pieces labelled 'camera adapters' over Ebay. The female flange that screws to the scope is a separate fitting, that will hold the original celestron 1.25" 'back' or a 2" back. I mention this because purchasing a 2" back with celestron written on it costs a fortune whereas a generic back costs around 5-10$US...

Edited August 28, 2022 by SthBohemia

[unkabin]

Just to be clear, if I were to buy a used Nexstar SE 6/8 mount, it will allow me to mount this with the existing rail?

[SthBohemia]

YES ^^ 🙂 

😞 I hope the mount you are considering is not that atrocious one arm job...

Edited August 28, 2022 by SthBohemia