Baader Hyperion Zoom – thoughts from a newbie

[PeterC65]

I bought my first scope a couple of months ago, a Skymax 127, and posted about my experience setting up and using it here. I’ve since upgraded the standard Sky-Watcher 10mm and 25mm eyepieces that came with the scope to a Badder Hyperion Zoom (BHZ) which I was able to try over the last couple of nights.

The BHZ is a well-made hefty piece of kit. It’s quite a lump when perched on the 1.25” barrel of my Sky-Watcher diagonal, held only by a couple of thumb screws! I’ve set the scope height so that I can sit to observe, but at low elevations I need to cant over the diagonal so that the eyepiece is horizontal. To make this easier and to provide more substantial support for the BHZ I’m in the process of upgrading the optical pathway from the visual back.

I’m using the BHZ with its 1.25” barrel and with the standard adjustable eyecup. This is quite a big eyecup (55mm in diameter) so it sits tight against my nose and around my eye. Twisting the eyecup adjusts the eye relief (the distance between the lens and the eye) over a range of 10mm. Overall I found it easy to correctly place my eye, either just touching the eyecup or a little distance back from it to avoid scope shake.

The BHZ also comes with a smaller rubber eyecup (45mm in diameter) and a winged eyecup. To use these you need to unscrew and remove the standard eyecup and then fit one of the rubber ones over the M43 thread. The smaller rubber eyecup fits better around my eye. It comes with a separate lens cap so you can leave it fitted.

The zoom control twist is smooth without being loose, and the focal length clicks can be felt and heard but without affecting the smooth control. In other words, it’s spot on.

I compared the BHZ with the Sky-Watcher 10mm and 25mm eyepieces, observing Jupiter and Saturn, the M31 and M33 galaxies, and the M13 star cluster. All of these were clearer with the BHZ, less fuzzy, and I could pick out a little more detail. With the planets I felt there was further room for magnification (I have the BHZ Barlow on order) which I didn’t feel was the case with the Sky-Watcher 10mm eyepiece. But the BHZ didn’t blow me away, it was just a little bit better.

The biggest advantage I found was being able to change magnification with just a twist of the eyepiece rather than having to fiddle about in the dark swapping over expensive eyepieces.

How do other rate the BHZ?

[Louis D]

I found the BHZ too tight on eye relief for an astigmatic eyeglass user like me.  I use a Celestron Regal zoom eyepiece with the adjustable eye cup screwed all the way off to maximize eye relief.  They also work well as a pair in a binoviewer.  Since I picked them up for $60 apiece, I've been quite happy with them.  Since the top doesn't rotate, batwing eye cups are also possible with BVs.

[Spile]

You will enjoy using the matching Barlow for ramping up the power on planets. I have to use the 2” sleeve when doing this. It is a great eyepiece and so flexible.

[PeterC65]

10 hours ago, Spile said:

I have to use the 2” sleeve when doing this. It is a great eyepiece and so flexible.

@SpileWhy do you have to use the 2" sleeve?

I've been looking at photographs of the combination trying to work out what goes where. It looks like the Barlow has a 1.25" barrel that replaces the one on the Zoom, and that the Barlow would stick out from the 2" barrel if that is fitted. So I was assuming that you needed to use a 1.25" connection if you fit the Barlow.

[Andrew_B]

8 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

@SpileWhy do you have to use the 2" sleeve?

I've been looking at photographs of the combination trying to work out what goes where. It looks like the Barlow has a 1.25" barrel that replaces the one on the Zoom, and that the Barlow would stick out from the 2" barrel if that is fitted. So I was assuming that you needed to use a 1.25" connection if you fit the Barlow.

The Barlow screws onto the bottom of the 1.25" barrel on the Zoom rather than replacing it. The resulting combination is quite long but it's well secured and does the job.

[Spile]

5 hours ago, Andrew_B said:

The Barlow screws onto the bottom of the 1.25" barrel on the Zoom rather than replacing it. The resulting combination is quite long but it's well secured and does the job.

There is nothing for the 1.25” focus tube to lock onto other than the Barlow. With the 2” ring the Barlow is free to move as you change focus. Well that is the case with my setup.

[Franklin]

Hyperion zoom barlow can be fitted to either the 1.25" nosepiece, do this if using it in 1.25" mode, or (with 1.25" nosepiece removed) fitted to the threads on the end of the zoom field lens, do this when using it in 2" mode. The difference in optical distance of these 2 mating points is insignificant, the displacement being a difference of 0.1mm in effective focal length. At the 8mm zoom setting barlow will give either 3.5mm or 3.4mm.

[Don Pensack]

7 hours ago, Franklin said:

Hyperion zoom barlow can be fitted to either the 1.25" nosepiece, do this if using it in 1.25" mode, or (with 1.25" nosepiece removed) fitted to the threads on the end of the zoom field lens, do this when using it in 2" mode. The difference in optical distance of these 2 mating points is insignificant, the displacement being a difference of 0.1mm in effective focal length. At the 8mm zoom setting barlow will give either 3.5mm or 3.4mm.

Not clear on what you mean by this.  The 1.25" section of eyepiece is never removed.

I presume you mean the 1.25" threaded adapter that comes with the zoom lens?

[Franklin]

9 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Not clear on what you mean by this.  The 1.25" section of eyepiece is never removed

I have a Mk IV version, earlier versions may differ, but the 2.25x barlow can be threaded directly on to the zooms field lens but only when using the 2" sleave. That way the barlow can rotate when zooming.  The 1.25" adaptor that fits on the barlow has two threads, an external thread that screws into the 1.25" nosepiece (when using the zoom in 1.25" mode) and an internal thread that allows connection to the field lens of the zoom. I use my BHZ in 2" mode most of the time and have the 1.25" nosepiece removed and can still use the barlow in that configuration. 

https://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/downloads/dl/file/id/165/product/1695/testreview_baader_2_25x_barlow_und_mark_iii_hyperion_zoom_a_first_look_at_new_astro_gear_hernando.pdf

Edited September 18, 2021 by Franklin
link

[Don Pensack]

Ah, you are referring to the adapter that comes with the Barlow, not something that is part of the eyepiece.

[Franklin]

41 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

Ah, you are referring to the adapter that comes with the Barlow, not something that is part of the eyepiece.

👍

[Spile]

Basically if you want to use the Baader Hyperion IV zoom and Barlow you need to use the 2” adapter.

[Don Pensack]

3 hours ago, Spile said:

Basically if you want to use the Baader Hyperion IV zoom and Barlow you need to use the 2” adapter.

Why would that be?  Wouldn't the Barlow attached to the eyepiece and tightened into a 1.25" adapter allow the eyepiece to zoom if the combo is used as 1.25?

[Pixies]

16 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Why would that be?  Wouldn't the Barlow attached to the eyepiece and tightened into a 1.25" adapter allow the eyepiece to zoom if the combo is used as 1.25?

Yep. That's how I use it. It looks a bit "leggy", but as long as the focuser is sturdy, it's fine.

[Spile]

21 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Why would that be?  Wouldn't the Barlow attached to the eyepiece and tightened into a 1.25" adapter allow the eyepiece to zoom if the combo is used as 1.25?

See my earlier reply above. The Barlow needs freedom to rotate as the fl of the eyepiece is changed.

My only other EP is a 2” so It’s also a lot easier to have everything set up in the same way.

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, Spile said:

See my earlier reply above. The Barlow needs freedom to rotate as the fl of the eyepiece is changed.

My only other EP is a 2” so It’s also a lot easier to have everything set up in the same way.

So, the 1.25" barrel rotates as the BHZ is zoomed?  I knew the upper barrel holding the eye cup rotates, but I was unaware of this secondary rotation.

[PeterC65]

14 hours ago, Louis D said:

So, the 1.25" barrel rotates as the BHZ is zoomed?

I just checked my BHZ Mk4. I don't yet have the Barlow (due in November!) but as I rotate the zoom control the lens assembly at the base of the EP does indeed rotate, but the 1.25" barrel does not. So used in 1.25" mode, with the Barlow screwed to the barrel, the Barlow does not rotate but used in 2" mode, with the Barlow screwed to the lens assembly, the Barlow will rotate. Since the EP is held in place by the barrel in 2" mode the Barlow will be free to rotate anyway and so this isn't a problem. I'm quite relieved as it would have been a pain had the Barlow rotated with the zoom control in 1.25" mode!

[Louis D]

27 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

I just checked my BHZ Mk4. I don't yet have the Barlow (due in November!) but as I rotate the zoom control the lens assembly at the base of the EP does indeed rotate, but the 1.25" barrel does not. So used in 1.25" mode, with the Barlow screwed to the barrel, the Barlow does not rotate but used in 2" mode, with the Barlow screwed to the lens assembly, the Barlow will rotate. Since the EP is held in place by the barrel in 2" mode the Barlow will be free to rotate anyway and so this isn't a problem. I'm quite relieved as it would have been a pain had the Barlow rotated with the zoom control in 1.25" mode!

I didn't realize it was possible to screw the Barlow into the lens assembly rather than the 1.25" filter threads.  That must be where so much of the confusion arises with this combination.

 

18 hours ago, Spile said:

See my earlier reply above. The Barlow needs freedom to rotate as the fl of the eyepiece is changed.

My only other EP is a 2” so It’s also a lot easier to have everything set up in the same way.

Have you tried screwing the Barlow into the 1.25" filter threads in 1.25" mode to avoid the rotation issues you experienced screwing it into the lens assembly?

[PeterC65]

2 hours ago, Louis D said:

I didn't realize it was possible to screw the Barlow into the lens assembly rather than the 1.25" filter threads.

Yes, the Barlow can be screwed to the outer thread of lens assembly or to the inner thread of the 1.25" nosepiece (so I've read). Apparently when it's screwed to the nosepiece the magnification of the Barlow is x2.35 instead of x2.25. 

[Don Pensack]

4 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

I just checked my BHZ Mk4. I don't yet have the Barlow (due in November!) but as I rotate the zoom control the lens assembly at the base of the EP does indeed rotate, but the 1.25" barrel does not. So used in 1.25" mode, with the Barlow screwed to the barrel, the Barlow does not rotate but used in 2" mode, with the Barlow screwed to the lens assembly, the Barlow will rotate. Since the EP is held in place by the barrel in 2" mode the Barlow will be free to rotate anyway and so this isn't a problem. I'm quite relieved as it would have been a pain had the Barlow rotated with the zoom control in 1.25" mode!

I'm confused.  When I attach the Barlow to the eyepiece and place it in an 1.25" adapter, the thumbscrew tightens on the Barlow.

It does not turn with the eyepiece, and neither does the 1.25" barrel on the eyepiece above it.

The upper section of the eyepiece turns relative to the bottom, and the zoom works fine.

When I attach the 2" skirt and insert the eyepiece and tighten it down, neither the 2" skirt nor the 1.25" barrel turns as the zoom is moved, though the upper section of the eyepiece does turn relative to the bottom.

So I have no clue what is being discussed here.

If the barlow is attached and the eyepiece tightening in a 1.25" focuser or adapter, the 1.25" barrel of the eyepiece above the Barlow cannot turn.  If it turns, it's being unscrewed from the eyepiece.

 

I don't believe the Barlow can be attached to the 2" skirt on the eyepiece.

Here it is attached in 1.25" mode.

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by Don Pensack

[Spile]

There is only one way that the BHZ Barlow can be fitted and that is by screwing it to bottom of the eyepiece. It will only fit one way round.  If the Barlow is attached to a 1.25” adapter it will unscrew the Barlow if the fl of the zoom is increased.

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Spile

[Pixies]

1 hour ago, Spile said:

There is only one way that the BHZ Barlow can be fitted and that is by screwing it to bottom of the eyepiece. It will only fit one way round.  If the Barlow is attached to a 1.25” adapter it will unscrew the Barlow if the fl of the zoom is increased.

 

Hi @Spile

There's something very different about the system you describe, like the others, I don't see anything like you describe with the Mk 4. Not saying you are wrong btw, but could it be you have something different?

Even looking at the Baader website:

[Pixies]

hang On! I think I se what's happened.

Are you removing the 1.25" barrel and fitting the Barlow using the internal thread of the A adapter directly to the part inside? That appears to rotate within the barrel as you rotate the zoom.

With 1.25" barrel:

with barrel removed, showing internal part that rotates with zoom:

here with the barlow (A adapter) attached to said part, using the internal thread of the adapter:

The adapter has an external and internal thread on its 'collar':

The external thread attaches to the 1.25" barrel.

 

Does that make more sense? very odd, if you ask me.

 

[PeterC65]

According to the Baader website, the Barlow comes with a Type A adapter which gives it a 1.25" male filter thread and a Type B adapter which gives it a T-2 male thread. One of these adapters must always be fitted and to fit the Barlow to the BHZ the Type A adapter should be used. With this adapter fitted, the Barlow screws into the filter thread of the 1.25" nosepiece. Baader say this is how the Barlow is designed to be fitted, even when the BHZ is used with its 2" nosepiece (the 1.25" nosepiece remains in place inside the 2" nosepiece). Neither the 1.25" nosepiece nor the 2" nosepiece turn when the zoom control is turned, so neither does the Barlow.

This article, on the Baader website and referring to the Mark III BHZ and Barlow, says that the Type A adapter also has a female thread which fits the male thread on the snout of the BHZ. The snout sits just inside the 1.25" nosepiece and can be exposed by removing the nosepiece.  I can't confirm whether there is still a female thread on the Type A adapter as I'm still waiting for delivery of my Barlow but I can confirm that the Mark IV BHZ snout is threaded and does rotate as the zoom control is turned. It sounds like people using the BHZ with the 2" nosepiece may be removing the 1.25" nosepiece and then fitting the Barlow directly to the BHZ snout and in this case the snout and the Barlow will rotate as the zoom control is turned.

[Pixies]

8 minutes ago, PeterC65 said:

I can't confirm whether there is still a female thread on the Type A adapter as I'm still waiting for delivery of my Barlow

Yep - I can confirm it does. See the pic in my post above. The barlow doesn't appear to be any different (Mk III vs Mk IV)

The article (about the Mk III zoom) says "But if one were to use the zoom in the 2" mode, it becomes necessary to use the field lens snout
(position 2) as the mounting point to enable attachment of the 2" sleeve/adapter"

But it appears this is not necessary with the Mk IV, as the 2" adapter just screws in directly with nothing else required.