Skymax 127 – first thoughts from a newbie

[PeterC65]

I’ve always liked star gazing and attended the Introduction to Astronomy course at Norman Lockyer Observatory a few years ago (which I’d recommend). Since a holiday has been off the agenda for the last 18 months, we decided to spend the money instead on a telescope and take a proper look at the night sky. Here is what I’ve learned from the first couple of sessions …

I chose the Sky-Watcher Skymax 127 SynScan AZ GOTO because:

• I wanted a descent scope with a good aperture, but also something compact (both the OTA and the mount) as it will get lugged about and stored in the back bedroom.
• I can find a few stars but don’t know the night sky, so I wanted a mount that would point me in the right direction.
• I could probably align an EQ mount with Polaris, but two star alignment seemed easier and quicker, meaning more observing and less faffing.

Before the scope even arrived I had bought a Celestron 6.1Ah Lithium Powertank.

The Skymax 127 comes with a VERY basic battery pack that takes eight AA cells. The mount consumes up to 12W so will flatten AA batteries quickly, and rechargeable AA batteries only have a terminal voltage of 1.2V so cannot provide the 12V needed by the mount to operate properly. The scope really needs to be powered from a Powertank or a mains power supply I think.

I chose the Powertank because it’s portable, avoids the trip hazard of mains cabling, and is regulated to maintain the 12V needed by the mount as it discharges. So far a full charge seems to be good for several hours of observing. Surprisingly, there is no power switch on the mount, but I can use the power switch on the Powertank to switch system power rather than just pulling out the power cord!

The first night of observing was frustrating! The second time, after properly reading the manual and doing some online research, went much better. Here’s what I learned …

Setup

Make sure there is enough play in the power cord for the mount to turn through 360° in either direction. Movement of the mount can pull out the power cord if it is tight which then loses all of the setup and alignment data!

UPDATE:  To really see an object you need to look at it over several minutes so that you become accustomed to the image and your brain begins to pick out the details. In order to do this comfortably, set the tripod height so that you can observe while sitting in a chair. Set the height so that at high elevations, above 70°, you can lean forward in the chair and still comfortably look into the eyepiece. At low elevations, below 30°, I cant over the diagonal so that the eyepiece is near horizontal then observe from the side of the scope.

Make sure the mount is exactly horizontal so that movement of the OTA in azimuth through a rotation stays exactly flat. I used a spirit level during daylight to level the tripod top with the mount removed then marked the leg positions on the patio.

Power up the mount with it set horizontal (using a spirit level) and pointing true north (using a compass) so that it is approximately aligned from the start. At power up the mount assumes it is orientated at 0° altitude and 360° azimuth. This makes it easier to find alignment objects and it stops the mount from slewing in strange ways (ways that cause the power cord to disconnect!).

When finished, Park the mount to its Home Position so that it returns to horizontal and pointing true north for next time. After parking, you can resume next time using the previous alignment data but if the scope has been moved it’s probably best to start again from scratch.

The mount has no real time clock (!) so the date (in month / day / year format) and the time must be entered every time it’s powers up. The mount does remember its location so this just needs to be confirmed at power up unless it has changed.

I align the mount using the 2-Star Alignment method, choosing two stars that are in the same area of sky where I plan to observe. Only certain stars can be used for alignment, there are around 90 to choose from, and it’s worth deciding which to use before you start observing. I’ve set the Sort order for Alignment Stars to Alphabetic (this is remembered by the mount) rather than by magnitude, as it makes the selected stars easier to find.

There are course and fine stages when aligning to each of the two stars. During the course stage the slew rate is automatically set to fast. For the first star slewing has to be done manually, but for the second star the mount will slew automatically to the approximate position of the star (since the mount now has some alignment data).

During the fine stage the slew rate is automatically set to slow. You must finalise the alignment of the chosen stars in the centre of the field of view using the Up and Right arrow keys as this compensates for backlash in the mount (when automatically slewing to objects, the mount first slews fast to just left and underneath the chosen object and then approaches the object slewing slowly to the right and upwards).

Observation

Make sure Tracking is switched on and set to Sidereal for stars and planets and to Lunar for the moon (when using the Object List location function the appropriate tracking mode is set automatically). If an object’s position within the field of view isn’t quite central, it can be tweaked by manually slewing (at a slow slew rate), then the tracking function will keep the object centred.

If you think you might return to an object later, it’s worth using Pointing Accuracy Enhancement (PAE) to store tweaks to object positions. PAEs are applied to any objects located within about 5° of the object that was tweaked.

I find Show Position useful when manually locating objects to check the current altitude and azimuth positions, and Identify useful to check what objects I might be looking at!

One nice surprise is that the SynScan controller that arrived has a USB type B connector in place of the advertised 12V power connector. This enables a wired USB connection to a PC which allows the mount to be controlled by programs such as Stellarium (I’ve tested this and it connects with no effort and works fine).

UPDATE:  The SynScan controller does a good job of locating objects, but with two lines of display text it can provide only limited information about the objects you observe. Having used the controller to setup and align the scope, I then use Stellarium to control its position and locate the objects I want to observe. Stellarium shows each object in context, provides easy access to magnitude, size and other data, and shows what you might expect to see (more realistically with background DSO images turned off!). I’ve setup the Stellarium Oculars plug-in to show the view through the main scope with different eyepiece and Barlow combinations, and also to show the view through the finderscope. Using the finderscope ocular, I can check what I’m actually seeing in the finderscope to make sure I’m pointing at the right thing, then using the main scope ocular, I can check what I’m meant to be looking for through the scope.

 

So far I’ve been a little underwhelmed by what I’ve been able to observe! I have a cheap and cheerful 45x field scope which gives a good view of the moon and can just about pick out the rings of Saturn and the moons of Jupiter. With the Skymax 127 the moon is much clearer and I can see details of craters when they are in shadow. Saturn and Jupiter look a little better but I can’t see much more detail and at higher magnification (10mm EP) they are a little fuzzy. I managed to find Andromeda (or rather the mount did!) but it looked like piece of cotton wool and didn’t fill the field of view as I had been expecting. When I looked at nebulae I could see the concentration of stars forming them but had no sense of any colour or clouds.

Is this par for the course, or am I missing something?

So far I’m using the scope as it arrived, out of the box (apart from the Powertank), but I do have on order a few ‘upgrades’ …

• Baader Hyperion Zoom Eyepiece – to replace the basic eyepieces that come with the telescope (25mm and 10mm) and to provide a range of magnifications.
• Baader Prism Star-Diagonal – to replace the basic diagonal that comes with the telescope and to provide a stronger mechanical support for the (rather expensive) Zoom eyepiece.
• Baader Helical Focuser – the focus control on the back of the Skymax 127 seems very sensitive and I see from another post that this helical focuser can fix this.
• Baader Neodymium Moon and Skyglow Filter – OK, I was getting a little carried away by this point! – where I live is quite rural but this filter seems to improve matters over and above just removing light pollution.

When these bits have arrived and I’ve had a chance to try them I will post again with an update.

Edited September 8, 2021 by PeterC65
Added more information (in yellow).

[happy-kat]

Hi  Great post and experience shared.

You might like this read about what you see. 

https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/

[Zermelo]

Welcome to SGL. That's a nice summary for anyone else starting with a Mak or a Skywatcher alt-az goto mount.

3 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

Saturn and Jupiter look a little better but I can’t see much more detail and at higher magnification (10mm EP) they are a little fuzzy.

The stock 10mm eyepiece is not the greatest, and certainly won't show what the Skymax can do. You will find the views improved with the Baader zoom.

3 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

I managed to find Andromeda (or rather the mount did!) but it looked like piece of cotton wool and didn’t fill the field of view

M31 is a very large object, and the Skymax has rather a small field of view, compared with some other scopes. Its forte is really in solar system, double stars and smaller DSOs. Even so, you may think M31 doesn't appear large, but that's because you're probably seeing only the brighter nucleus. You need a larger scope and dark skies to see its true extent. And yes, it is actually quite dull in amateur equipment, with little structure.

4 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

had no sense of any colour or clouds

Very few deep sky objects show colour in small scopes - for real-time, visual observing, rather than imaging. Your eyes can't detect colour at such low light levels. Sometimes they can do so with very concentrated sources, like planetary nebulae. And many diffuse nebulae and galaxies won't show structure either, though some of the best will (e.g. M42, when winter comes). Your skies will affect this too.

[PeterC65]

Thanks for the advice. The link to the 'What can I expect to see?' post was very useful. This should be essential reading for anyone considering buying their first telescope!

I will try shortening the tripod legs so that I can use the telescope from a sitting position and spend more time at the eyepiece. I think that shorter legs will make the tripod more stable. I'm also considering drilling three small holes in the patio so that the legs can't move and so that I can re-position the tripod accurately each time.

I will post again about my experiences with the Baader upgrades once I've had a chance to try them out.

 

[Masher]

Hi, I originally hail from Lydney...Wish I was back there to view from my mums in Forest... 🙂

[PeterC65]

There is very little light pollution in the Forest of Dean which is handy, but I live on the side of a hill which is lined with trees so there is a great view to the south east but not much the other way! I can just see Polaris above the house roof but the scope is on an AZ GOTO mount so doesn't need polar alignment.

I'm still waiting for the Baader upgrades to arrive ...

In the meantime, I've lowered the tripod so that I can sit at the scope to observe which has made quite a difference, as did better viewing conditions during the last session.  Reading the article https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/ was also very useful and has reset my expectations about what I can expect to see and how much effort and practice will be needed (quite a lot!).

[DeanCJ]

Hi Peter,

my wife and I have the same scope and mount, and it is a great little set-up. I can totally agree with the reply from @Zermelo so although you may feel a little underwhelmed, don’t, you will see lots more. There are many bright dso’s and Messier targets within this scopes capabilities, smaller star clusters are gorgeous, but a few larger ones such as the Pleiades just won’t fit in the field of view, so we eventually bought a Star Travel 102 for wider field views which is perfect on this mount and if you are careful you can swop and change scopes without altering the alignment. Double stars are great, especially colourful ones, nebulae too, and  of course the moon is stunning. Planetary views are fantastic, we have even observed  Uranus and Neptune many times and can see faint colour on both, although they are very small so your alignment needs to be good. Venus is very bright and we have struggled with this but you will be able to see the phases easily, just make sure the sun is in a safe place !!! 
If you haven’t got one I would recommend you buy a low power eyepiece such as a 32mm plossl. This will give you a nice bright wide’ish field of view. We bought a Skywatcher 32mm and this will give you about as wide a field you can see with a 1.25 eyepiece. Eye placement can be a little difficult as the eye relief is quite long and eventually we replaced it with a Vixen 30mm npl, this we find easier to use as it has a twist up eye cup. 
Also have you got a dew shield yet? We soon learned just how quickly this scope can dew up. 
I am sure you will enjoy your telescope as we have, especially now you have read the what-can-I-expect-to-see article. 

A warm welcome to SGL and clear skies.

 

 

[Louis D]

Definitely observe some of the brighter, somewhat compact open clusters.  Photographs don't do them justice.  Also, try some of the large globular clusters like M13.  Lastly, view some of the brighter planetary nebula like M57.

[PeterC65]

Thanks for the feedback @DeanCJ. I have seen more each time I've been out observing so I guess it just gets better with time and experience.

17 hours ago, DeanCJ said:

I would recommend you buy a low power eyepiece such as a 32mm plossl.

According to the FOV calculator, a 32mm plossl looks like it would only gives me a little more coverage than the Baader Zoom I have on order (24mm). What do people think? Is it worth having 32mm as well as 24mm?

I can see the difference a Startravel 102 would make but I need to get some time in with the Skymax 127 before thinking about another scope!

17 hours ago, DeanCJ said:

Also have you got a dew shield yet?

Yes I have just bough a dew shield. It's just a cover, without a heater. I assume these still do the job of preventing dew formation? I considered a heated dew shield but they seem to need additional control kit and would create another power draw on the battery. I doubt I'll be observing for more than an hour when it's cold so hopefully the basic cover will be good enough.

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

According to the FOV calculator, a 32mm plossl looks like it would only gives me a little more coverage than the Baader Zoom I have on order (24mm). What do people think? Is it worth having 32mm as well as 24mm?

The BHZ has a 44° AFOV at 24mm while a 32mm Plossl generally has a 52° AFOV.  Assuming minimal magnification distortion, you're going from about 0.7° to 1.1° TFOV on the sky in your 127 Mak.  That may not seem like a lot, but it is a 2.5x increase in area on the sky seen in the image circle.

In the States, Synta is shipping these 127 Maks with 2" visual backs and 2" diagonals.  I did the same upgrade to mine before this became standard here.  With a 40mm, 68° AFOV eyepiece, it increases the view seen on the sky from 1.1° to 1.8° (or 1.0° to 1.7° using field stop measurements).  That's another 2.7x (or 2.9x by FS) increase in area on the sky seen in the eyepiece.  Relative to the BHZ at 24mm, that's a whopping 6.6x increase in area on the sky seen in the eyepiece.  Yes, there is about a 40% decrease in illumination in the outer field of view, but it's hardly noticeable when looking in the center.  The difference in what can be seen in the eyepiece is enormous, especially for rich star fields.

Below is the difference demonstrated by photographing a ruler through both a 24mm widest field eyepiece (roughly the same field stop size as the 32mm Plossl) and a 40mm widest field eyepiece.  You can see how it gets dimmer toward the edge.

And here's how it looks in the focuser from two different angles:

[DeanCJ]

Hi Peter,  

We have never had a zoom eyepiece, but from everything I have read, you have bought one of the best available without spending a fortune., so as you say hopefully someone can advise with regards to a 32mm plossl.  One thing to remember is that the longer the focal length, the larger the exit pupil is, and the brighter the image is. This is great for the faint fuzzies, but can also brighten the background light pollution. For Jupiter and Saturn somewhere around 15 to 10mm maybe a bit more if the seeing is really good, and for the moon sometimes 8mm, again if the seeing is really good, so I would say your new Baader zoom is a great match for your scope.
We have never used a dew heater on the Mak, and only on a few occasions has the dew beat the shield, so I would recommend you see how you go. If you do need to buy one, don’t worry too much about power consumption as long as your power tank is well charged. We have a dew heater on our 8”sct and power the mount and heater from a 7ah lead acid battery and it has done five hours easily, with no signs of discharge.
If you need to buy any more bits and pieces (I always seem to need to buy something) check out the for sale section, or perhaps place a wanted ad. I have bought items from here and I would say that 99.9% of people are honest and their prices are very fair.
 

[PeterC65]

12 hours ago, Louis D said:

The BHZ has a 44° AFOV at 24mm while a 32mm Plossl generally has a 52° AFOV.  Assuming minimal magnification distortion, you're going from about 0.7° to 1.1° TFOV on the sky in your 127 Mak.  That may not seem like a lot, but it is a 2.5x increase in area on the sky seen in the image circle.

OK, so the area of sky I can observe depends as much on the FOV of the EP as it does on its focal length. According to Baader their Zoom EP has a 48° FOV at 24mm, and others have said that at 24mm it is similar to a Plossl (the Baader Plossl is 50°) so the difference in FOV may be quite small. Using the figures from Baader, I get 0.77° for the Zoom at 24mm and 1.07° for the (Baader) 32mm Plossl. The Zoom at 8mm gives 0.36°, so a 2.1 : 1 ratio with the Zoom at 24mm, whereas the ratio between the 32mm Plossl and the Zoom at 24mm is only 1.4 : 1. I’m not sure how much of a benefit that would be.

When I’ve observed M31 so far, I’ve only been able to see the centre as the galaxy, and then only as a grey blob. It may be that if I could observe the whole of M31 I could then make out its edges and so see it differently but I don’t think that will be possible with the Skymax 127.

12 hours ago, Louis D said:

In the States, Synta is shipping these 127 Maks with 2" visual backs and 2" diagonals.  I did the same upgrade to mine before this became standard here.  With a 40mm, 68° AFOV eyepiece, it increases the view seen on the sky from 1.1° to 1.8°

Interesting that the Skymax 127 is available in the USA with a 2” visual back. I’ve noticed that on larger Mak’s here in the UK. Mine has a 2” SCT thread on the visual back but the aperture diameter within this is only 28mm. Because of this, and because the Baader Zoom is 1.25”, I’ve stuck with a 1.25” optical pathway.

Actually I have on order a 2” SCT adapter and 2” nosepiece to fit between the scope and a 32mm diagonal, but that’s mainly to provide mechanical strength and easier slewing of the EP (the adapter is a Baader ClickLock).

How did you convert your scope to a 2” visual back? Doing that to mine looks like it would involve major surgery to the scope itself!

So I think I’m limited to a maximum 32mm EP which will make it impossible to see the whole of M31 with the Skymax 127.

[Louis D]

5 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

OK, so the area of sky I can observe depends as much on the FOV of the EP as it does on its focal length. According to Baader their Zoom EP has a 48° FOV at 24mm, and others have said that at 24mm it is similar to a Plossl (the Baader Plossl is 50°) so the difference in FOV may be quite small. Using the figures from Baader, I get 0.77° for the Zoom at 24mm and 1.07° for the (Baader) 32mm Plossl. The Zoom at 8mm gives 0.36°, so a 2.1 : 1 ratio with the Zoom at 24mm, whereas the ratio between the 32mm Plossl and the Zoom at 24mm is only 1.4 : 1. I’m not sure how much of a benefit that would be.

When I’ve observed M31 so far, I’ve only been able to see the centre as the galaxy, and then only as a grey blob. It may be that if I could observe the whole of M31 I could then make out its edges and so see it differently but I don’t think that will be possible with the Skymax 127.

Interesting that the Skymax 127 is available in the USA with a 2” visual back. I’ve noticed that on larger Mak’s here in the UK. Mine has a 2” SCT thread on the visual back but the aperture diameter within this is only 28mm. Because of this, and because the Baader Zoom is 1.25”, I’ve stuck with a 1.25” optical pathway.

Actually I have on order a 2” SCT adapter and 2” nosepiece to fit between the scope and a 32mm diagonal, but that’s mainly to provide mechanical strength and easier slewing of the EP (the adapter is a Baader ClickLock).

How did you convert your scope to a 2” visual back? Doing that to mine looks like it would involve major surgery to the scope itself!

So I think I’m limited to a maximum 32mm EP which will make it impossible to see the whole of M31 with the Skymax 127.

I was going by the measured AFOV of 44° to 45° as measured by multiple CN users.  I can't recall anyone on SGL measuring theirs.  I also can't recall anyone accurately measuring the field stop at each focal length.  That's what really determines TFOV.

As far as converting goes, I just added a step-up ring to bring the native Mak thread up to an SCT thread so I could add a 2" visual back.  It's still a 28mm rear aperture, thus the vignetting.  Because it is so far ahead of the eyepiece's field stop, the falloff is subtle.  If the 28mm opening was at the end of the eyepiece's insertion tube, it would be a hard vignette and would be rather unusable.

[PeterC65]

19 hours ago, Louis D said:

As far as converting goes, I just added a step-up ring to bring the native Mak thread up to an SCT thread so I could add a 2" visual back.

@Louis D can you tell me what step-up ring you used? I've just received a Baader SCT to 2" ClickLock which was recommended by my scopes supplier in the UK (First Light Optics), but it doesn't fit. The SCT thread is bigger than the one on the visual back of the scope so I need to know what that thread size is (clearly not SCT).

[Zermelo]

Have you measured the thread when you've taken off the visual back?
Mine is around 45.5 mm to the tops of the threads (it's male).

[Zermelo]

4 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

Have you measured the thread when you've taken off the visual back?
Mine is around 45.5 mm to the tops of the threads (it's male).

Actually, it might be this: https://agenaastro.com/articles/astronomy-threads-explained.html#maksutov

but I'm sure I read a post about SW moving from a non-standard thread to the SCT thread at some point, I'll see if I can find it. There seems to be very little info from SW themselves on that. Their larger maks have always had the standard thread, I believe.

[Zermelo]

This one?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/lynxastro_makcas-sct_adptr.html

[Zermelo]

7 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

I read a post about SW moving from a non-standard thread to the SCT thread at some point, I'll see if I can find it

possibly it was here, towards the bottom:

 

[JamesF]

On 01/08/2021 at 20:44, Zermelo said:

M31 is a very large object,

To expand on this a little, M31 is about 3°x1° whereas the full Moon is about 0.5° in diameter, so if you think about how the Moon appears in any given eyepiece, that gives you some idea of how much of M31 you can see with the same eyepiece.

James

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, PeterC65 said:

@Louis D can you tell me what step-up ring you used? I've just received a Baader SCT to 2" ClickLock which was recommended by my scopes supplier in the UK (First Light Optics), but it doesn't fit. The SCT thread is bigger than the one on the visual back of the scope so I need to know what that thread size is (clearly not SCT).

 

39 minutes ago, Zermelo said:

This one?

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/lynxastro_makcas-sct_adptr.html

@Zermelo nailed it.  You just screw that adapter onto the existing rear thread, and presto-chango, you have an SCT thread that accepts myriad attachments.

Once attached, it does look like the image below from the thread referred to above:

Edited August 27, 2021 by Louis D

[JamesF]

On 25/08/2021 at 02:23, Louis D said:

Also, try some of the large globular clusters like M13.  Lastly, view some of the brighter planetary nebula like M57.

Absolutely this.  The 127 Mak works very nicely for globs and the brighter planetary nebulae.  It's also good if you make a filter from Baader solar film and use it to view the Sun in white light (but understand all the safety issues before you do this).

James

[Louis D]

10 minutes ago, JamesF said:

To expand on this a little, M31 is about 3°x1° whereas the full Moon is about 0.5° in diameter, so if you think about how the Moon appears in any given eyepiece, that gives you some idea of how much of M31 you can see with the same eyepiece.

James

But unless you're in quite dark skies, you won't see much beyond its core.  It's surface brightness just isn't enough to overcome most skyglow.  You should be able to make out one or both of its two brighter satellite galaxy cores as well.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Louis D

[JamesF]

Just now, Louis D said:

But unless you're in quite dark skies, you won't see much beyond its core.  It's surface brightness just isn't enough to overcome most skyglow.

Oh, certainly.  But if, say, the Moon fills the field of view with a given eyepiece and you can only make out enough of M31 to fill, say, half that, then it gives you a clearer idea of what it is that you're seeing, or if you're trying to work your way from M31 to M32 (which is much further away than you think it would be when you can only see the core of M31 and you're still learning how things look).

James

[JamesF]

Regarding the use of 2" diagonals and eyepieces, isn't the baffle tube the limiting factor with larger diameter field stops?  I don't know as whilst I have a 2" SCT diagonal, I don't use it on my 127 Mak.  I feel sure the baffle tube only is only about 30mm diameter though?

James

[johninderby]

Did some testing using 2” diagonal on a 127 mak and found that while you could get a slightly wider fov with the right 2” eyepiece it wasn’t a lot more and decided it wasn’t worth bothering with.