Guiding.

[Detec]

I find I cannot use APT and PHD2 together. Both work independently, but together my PHD2 wont calibrate, it says there is something wrong with one axis or the cables. Then the guiding doesnt work. If I disconnect APT and the cable to the Synscan controller on my HEQ5 Pro mount, the guiding calibrates and guides ok. APT says its connected to PHD2 ok.

Has anyone had this problem? Could it just be a setting somewhere?

[barbulo]

If you disconnect the mount (Synscan HC) from the PC, where do you connect the guiding cam? To the mount or to the PC? 

 

[Detec]

4 hours ago, barbulo said:

If you disconnect the mount (Synscan HC) from the PC, where do you connect the guiding cam? To the mount or to the PC? 

I have the Guide cam connected to the PC and also to the mount. My DSLR connected to the PC, and the Synscan connects to the PC.

[barbulo]

Then try connecting the guide cam only to the PC, and let PHD2 drive the guiding from the PC to the mount.

Edited September 8, 2021 by barbulo

[michael8554]

Sounds like you have PHD2 AND APT both trying to "talk" to the mount at the same time.

If so, this requires a Software Hub, such as ASCOM POTH or ASCOM DeviceHub, to mediate.

Michael

[malc-c]

I often think that there are too many applications that do the same job.  A decade ago you had your telescope control application, namely EQMOD.  Then you had a planetarium application which was your database of targets, but would connect through ASCOM to EQMOD so goto's could be instructed.  Then APT and BackyardEOS came along and (AFAIK) just handled imaging side of things.  PHD (the original) interfaced to the ASCOM platform, and talked to the guide camera and EQMOD to perform its duties.  These days all that is integrated, and you have options to control the mount from the imaging software.  Same imaging software can interface to PHD2, although I'm not an advanced user to suggest in what capacity which application becomes the master in this...  Also with so many apps now all integrating on the ASCOM platform, there is no clarity as to issues in loading them in a certain order, so for example of PHD2 is loaded after APT, does APT still find PHD2 and connect or does it give up after checking on the initial launch ?

I tend to load up CdC, then connect to the telescope which launches EQMOD, then load PHD2, and then APT.  I unpark the scope, use CdC to slew to a target, minimise both, then take a framing / focusing shot with APT using the 400D, and if I'm happy with it, then run PHD2 to start guiding.  I then g back to APT and load up a plan and let it run... I don't use 90% of the other features of APT.

[Detec]

5 hours ago, michael8554 said:

Sounds like you have PHD2 AND APT both trying to "talk" to the mount at the same time.

If so, this requires a Software Hub, such as ASCOM POTH or ASCOM DeviceHub, to mediate.

Michael

I cant understand why everyone else just seems to connect and work. I followed Trevor Jones on AstroBackyard. He conects the guide camera to the mount, using the "On camera" setting, and everything works fine. I have three USB sockets on the laptop, so I connected as Trevor Jones did, using these three USB's. He polar & star aligns from the synscan, so I do that, then he plugs in the extra connections for the guiding and APT. So I did that. Then the calibrating on PHD2  says one axis isnt responding, and wont calibrate, and it wont calibrate until I unplug the cable from APT which goes into the Syscan hand controller.

[barbulo]

I had the same problem you have but with a EQ-3. I only managed it to work when removing the ST4 cable guider-to-mount.

If you prefer to keep it, then you should NOT connect the Synscan to the PC, and do the star alignment and GOTOs from the hand controller.

If you connect the cam both to the mount and the PC (being this connected to the Synscan), it will duplicate the orders given to the mount.

Hope this helps.

[malc-c]

On 08/09/2021 at 11:16, Detec said:

I find I cannot use APT and PHD2 together. Both work independently, but together my PHD2 wont calibrate, it says there is something wrong with one axis or the cables. Then the guiding doesnt work. If I disconnect APT and the cable to the Synscan controller on my HEQ5 Pro mount, the guiding calibrates and guides ok. APT says its connected to PHD2 ok.

Has anyone had this problem? Could it just be a setting somewhere?

Is your hand controller one of the newer versions with USB, or are you using a USB to serial adapter and the standard serial cable that connects via a small telephone type plug ?

Personally I would use an EQDIR cable Such as this one  and connect direct to the mount.  Are you using EQMOD to control the scope? I'm confused (easily done) when you state APT and cable in the same sentence... if you could elaborate on exactly how you set up and run through your workflow it might help us understand what might be the issue  

[Detec]

3 hours ago, barbulo said:

I had the same problem you have but with a EQ-3. I only managed it to work when removing the ST4 cable guider-to-mount.

If you prefer to keep it, then you should NOT connect the Synscan to the PC, and do the star alignment and GOTOs from the hand controller.

If you connect the cam both to the mount and the PC (being this connected to the Synscan), it will duplicate the orders given to the mount.

Hope this helps.

I am only using APT so I can dither my pictures, so I dont know if I need the cables as I have them. I like to use the synscan for the goto function. But I was under the impression I had to connect the cable from the Synscan to the PC, so APT could work?

[malc-c]

APT doesn't control telescopes directly.  It controls cameras via ASCOM compliant drivers

You have two choices for the physical connection between the computer and the mount, and its an either / or choice.  

* Use a  suitable lead to connect to the Synsacn Handset.  This can either be a USB to serial connector and the standard serial cable that probably came with the mount. (This is a long cable that looks like a a telephone extension lead, but with a standard serial 9 pin connector at the other end, or a USB A to B cable depending on the version of handset you have), and then have the handset connected to the mount via the handset port on the mount.  You must have the handset set to PC-DIRECT mode in order for communications to pass through from the PC to the mount

* Use a dedicated EQDIR cable that replaces the handset altogether as it connects to the port the handset normally connects to and then the other end plugs into a USB port on the laptop / computer. 

You then need to run an ASCOM compliant "driver" for the telescope.  This will either be EQMOD or GSServer.  You will also need the ASCOM platform installed on the computer, which as you haven't said anything about any software reporting ASCOM related errors I think we can presume that this is already installed.

Then connect your main camera, and your guide camera directly to the computer via USB.  Forget about ST4 connections.  ST4 was mainly used for direct connection between the guide camera and mount with the handset in control, as you are using the computer to control the guiding and mount this isn't required.

Now even if you are connecting through the handset in PC_DIRECT mode forget the handset as a means of control.  Use a planetarium application such as CdC.  You will need to enter the location details and time into both EQMOD and CdC.  CdC should then be used to connect to the mount via EQMOD.  You can then unpark the scope and right click on a target and select slew to instruct the mount to move.

Then open up APT and PHD2.  Connect  PHD2 to the guide camera (again we're assuming the driver is installed) and the mount.  Do the usual calibrations etc and let it guide.  Then in APT select the main camera, and set up a sequence or take a test image.  All being well all the applications and hardware will play nice and you won't have any errors or issues.

Hope that helps... if you still have any issue then PLEASE explain to us exactly how you have set up the mount and what connections and software you are using....  I've made the assumption the computer is running windows... but could have wasted my time typing this reply if you are running LINUX as you haven't really been forthcoming with information.

 

 

[Detec]

22 hours ago, malc-c said:

APT doesn't control telescopes directly.  It controls cameras via ASCOM compliant drivers

You have two choices for the physical connection between the computer and the mount, and its an either / or choice.  

* Use a  suitable lead to connect to the Synsacn Handset.  This can either be a USB to serial connector and the standard serial cable that probably came with the mount. (This is a long cable that looks like a a telephone extension lead, but with a standard serial 9 pin connector at the other end, or a USB A to B cable depending on the version of handset you have), and then have the handset connected to the mount via the handset port on the mount.  You must have the handset set to PC-DIRECT mode in order for communications to pass through from the PC to the mount

* Use a dedicated EQDIR cable that replaces the handset altogether as it connects to the port the handset normally connects to and then the other end plugs into a USB port on the laptop / computer. 

You then need to run an ASCOM compliant "driver" for the telescope.  This will either be EQMOD or GSServer.  You will also need the ASCOM platform installed on the computer, which as you haven't said anything about any software reporting ASCOM related errors I think we can presume that this is already installed.

Then connect your main camera, and your guide camera directly to the computer via USB.  Forget about ST4 connections.  ST4 was mainly used for direct connection between the guide camera and mount with the handset in control, as you are using the computer to control the guiding and mount this isn't required.

Now even if you are connecting through the handset in PC_DIRECT mode forget the handset as a means of control.  Use a planetarium application such as CdC.  You will need to enter the location details and time into both EQMOD and CdC.  CdC should then be used to connect to the mount via EQMOD.  You can then unpark the scope and right click on a target and select slew to instruct the mount to move.

Then open up APT and PHD2.  Connect  PHD2 to the guide camera (again we're assuming the driver is installed) and the mount.  Do the usual calibrations etc and let it guide.  Then in APT select the main camera, and set up a sequence or take a test image.  All being well all the applications and hardware will play nice and you won't have any errors or issues.

Hope that helps... if you still have any issue then PLEASE explain to us exactly how you have set up the mount and what connections and software you are using....  I've made the assumption the computer is running windows... but could have wasted my time typing this reply if you are running LINUX as you haven't really been forthcoming with information.

 

 

My hand controller does'nt have a USB socket. It has the ST-4 connecter and the one that goes to the mount. I  use the EQDIR cable to connect the pc to the synscan controller, I thought I needed that for APT? If I dont connect the EQDIR cable APT wont recognise my mount. I have to put the hand controller in the PC Mode or, again, APT doesnt recognise my mount. I connect my guide camera to the mount with the ST-4 cable then the USB3 cable to the PC.

So I polar and star align using the Synscan, then I add the extra cables 1), The DSLR to the pc for APT to recgonise the camera. 2) The EQDIR from hand controller to the pc.

Then I launch the PHD2 and APT programs. I connect the guide camera to PHD2, and then I connect the ON Camera option on PHD2. I then  start it looping, let it find stars to guide on. Then I click on the guiding button, and it tries to calibrate. I get an error saying one axis isnt working and the it might not guide properly.

The Only way I can get it to calibrate is by disconnecting EQDIR cable from the hand controller.

I thought all this was needed?

I do have the Ascom platform installed and my PC operating system is windows.

I think I have too many cables connected by the sound of things.

[alacant]

42 minutes ago, Detec said:

too many cables

Hi

Lose both the hand controller and the mount to camera cable.

Keep the usb camera to computer cable.

Get the proper cable to connect  the mount to the computer.

That's it.

 

Edited September 10, 2021 by alacant

[malc-c]

Can you take some photos of the leads and the set up as I've read through you post and I'm still confused.  If you are using an EQDIR cable then there is no need to use the handset, but you mention disconnecting the EQDIR cable form the handset

This is and EQDIR cable.  You remove the handset from the synscan box and plug this in to the same socket the handset uses .  The other end plugs into a USB socket on your computer.  DO NOT try and use any other USB to serial convertor it could damage the mount.

Then download EQMOD and install that on your computer.  You already have mentioned you have ASCOM on the computer so it should install without issue.

Check Device Manager in windows, and under PORTS right click on the COM port that matches the EQDIR cable and select properties - make sure the baud setting is 9600

From ALL PROGRAMS > EQMOD > EQASCOM select TOOLBOX   and then under Setup select EQASCOM and click DRIVER SETUP.  Make sure the port selected is the same as the one that is allocated to the EQDIR cable, and the baud is also 9600 -  You also need to add your site info and then OK to exit

With the TOOLBOX still open now power up the mount and click the TEST CONNECTION button.  If all has been set up right it will launch EQMOD.  Next to the slew controls (NSWE) is a box with 1 showing - click in this and set it to 4 form the dropdown list.  Now click on any of the NSWE buttons -holding down the left mouse button to hold the NSWE button down should make the mount move.....

Opening APT and it should connect via ASCOM to EQMOD.

As mentioned above - your main camera and guide camera should be connected via USB to the PC  - forget the ST4 connections.

EDIT:

Just to add that you don't need to run the TOLLBOX after its been set up - just run EQMOD dierct

Edited September 10, 2021 by malc-c

[barbulo]

1 hour ago, Detec said:

I connect my guide camera to the mount with the ST-4 cable

Just try to skip this step.

[malc-c]

Using the recommended EQDIR lead this is how you connect the DSLR, Mount and Guidecamera  - That's all you need

Edited September 10, 2021 by malc-c

[malc-c]

I've just written up an article for my local AS newsletter based on a broad outline of imaging, and how it all connects.  It's very generalising but hopefully gives you an understanding in to how it all goes together.  

Again, the article is a broad spectrum and there are other ways to do things.  It doesn't go into details for each application, that is not the scope of the article.  It's really for an outline on one way, and the most common way to connect up the hardware, and how the process works.

Hope it helps

Fully automated imaging.pdf

Edited September 10, 2021 by malc-c

[Detec]

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. I think I have a much better understanding now. I was using too many cables. I will just await a clear sky and give it another go.

Thank you all again for the time you have spent sorting my problem out.

Chris