Astrophotography on a SkyWatcher 150/750 and an EQ3-2 mount

[Astrid]

Is it even possible to get some good both short and long exposure photos on a steel EQ3-2? The max capacity for the EQ3-2 is 5kg and the skywatcher 150/750 OTA weighs already 4.2 kg. 

I did not buy this telescope yet (i've spent the last month doing research regarding a good telescope for both visual observations and astrophotography that could last me quite some years).

The other 3 options I have are an 102 mak or perhaps an 8-10inch dob. I know you can't really do astrophotography on a dob that weights like 25kg unfortunately, but i'm thinking that by using short (or long) exposure you can achieve with a 150mm diameter even more detail than on an 200-250 dob. I heard that the newton with focal length 1200 (skywatcher 150/1200) instead of 750 isn't worth because of the f/4 focal ratio so I dumped the idea of getting one. 

 

Best regards and clear skies!

Edited September 6, 2020 by Astrid

[SteveBz]

20 hours ago, Astrid said:

Is it even possible to get some good both short and long exposure photos on a steel EQ3-2? The max capacity for the EQ3-2 is 5kg and the skywatcher 150/750 OTA weighs already 4.2 kg. 

Hi Astrid,

Astrophotography is a journey not a destination and certainly an EQ3 will give you some photos.  You won't be able to do long exposures without guiding, and an EQ5 might be better, but it's much heavier.  I assume you are thinking of the 150P (P for photography).  There are lots of other things you'll have to think about, like manual, vs driven, vs GOTO.  Manual won't give you much in the way of photography, but drives or GOTO will both allow photos.

Good luck and welcome to Stargarzersloungse.

Regards,

Steve.

[vlaiv]

20 hours ago, Astrid said:

Is it even possible to get some good both short and long exposure photos on a steel EQ3-2? The max capacity for the EQ3-2 is 5kg and the skywatcher 150/750 OTA weighs already 4.2 kg. 

I did not buy this telescope yet (i've spent the last month doing research regarding a good telescope for both visual observations and astrophotography that could last me quite some years).

The other 3 options I have are an 102 mak or perhaps an 8-10inch dob. I know you can't really do astrophotography on a dob that weights like 25kg unfortunately, but i'm thinking that by using short (or long) exposure you can achieve with a 150mm diameter even more detail than on an 200-250 dob. I heard that the newton with focal length 1200 (skywatcher 150/1200) instead of 750 isn't worth because of the f/4 focal ratio so I dumped the idea of getting one. 

 

Best regards and clear skies!

In all likelihood you won't get good long exposure photos with EQ3-2 and SW 150/750 scope.

Eq3-2 and other EQ3 class mounts are likely to have rather big periodic error and that means either short exposures, throwing away a lot of subs in longer exposures or guiding. If you start guiding that will help, but then you'll have much more than stated 5kg.

If you want to do astrophotography, then you'll want SW 150PDS version of the scope - it has 2" 10:1 focuser and is made with astrophotography in mind. That scope is already 5.3kg. Next, include camera and coma corrector and guide scope and guide camera.

Total is likely to be 7-8kg of gear and EQ5 is minimum for that.

Last sentence does not really make sense as neither of 150/750 nor 150/1200 is F/4 scope.

150/1200 is very nice visual scope and very very nice planetary instrument for both visual and imaging. By the way, planetary imaging is very different to ordinary imaging and you could do planetary images with 150/1200 and EQ3 type mount with appropriate camera.

Maybe try to formulate your question in form of - I wand to do this, this and this, but mostly this. I have car / backyard / apartment on 5 floor with no lift / poor back / strength of a superman / whatever as constraints that need to be taken into account.

What would be the best option?

In all likely hood if you want to do it all - you'll end up with at least two scopes. For example, if you want to do everything, then smallish refractor on EQ3 mount + 150/1200 dob mounted with EQ platform will cover almost every type of observing and imaging. But will that fit your budget? Yes, include your budget into question as well.

 

[KevinPSJ]

Hi Astrid.

You will definitely be working at the edge of what's possible and certainly not using a recommend set of kit if you want to do deep sky stuff like nebula and galaxies. But it's not impossible - just harder!

I have a skywatcher 150p on an EQ3-2 mount with RA motor and I can usually manage 30s exposures with no trailing after 10 minutes of careful polar alignment with a polarscope. 30s exposures with my Nikon D3200 let's me image quite well enough to impress family and friends  Have a look at my image gallery to see what's possible:

Just be prepared for a lots of frustration as well - currently I'm struggling to image beyond 15s without trailing and still not sure what's changed. Like I said I'm working at the edge of what's possible with the equipment I have. I've spent a good few long hours in the dark with nothing to show for it in the morning but smudges and noise. But my thinking is (a) when it works it's really satisfying to have achieved "the impossible" and (b) when I do eventually upgrade I'll have an awful lot of experience under my belt!

Kevin

Edited September 7, 2020 by KevinPSJ

[SteveBz]

1 minute ago, KevinPSJ said:

Hi Astrid.

You will definitely be working at the edge of what's possible and certainly not using a recommend set of kit if you want to do deep sky stuff like nebula and galaxies. But it's not impossible - just harder!

I have a skywatcher 150p on an EQ3-2 mount with RA motor and I can usually manage 30s exposures with no trailing after 10 minutes of careful polar alignment with a polarscope. 30s exposures with my Nikon D3200 let's me image quite well enough to impress family and friends  Have a look at my image gallery to see what's possible:

Just be prepared for a lots of frustration as well - currently I'm struggling to image beyond 15s without trailing and still not sure what's changed. Like I said I'm working at the edge of what's possible with the equipment I have. I've spent a good few long hours in the day with nothing to show for it in the morning but smudges and noise. But my thinking is (a) when it works it's really satisfying to have achieved "the impossible" and (b) when I do eventually upgrade I'll have an awful lot of experience under my belt!

Kevin

I agree with Kevin. I would also add that now I've upgraded I'm no longer portable, so I use an EQ3-2 plus small newtonian for portable events and for testing. My eq5 plus C8-N remains permanently set up in an observing shed. Staying small and light is to remain mobile.

Regards

Steve.

[Astrid]

9 hours ago, vlaiv said:

In all likelihood you won't get good long exposure photos with EQ3-2 and SW 150/750 scope.

Eq3-2 and other EQ3 class mounts are likely to have rather big periodic error and that means either short exposures, throwing away a lot of subs in longer exposures or guiding. If you start guiding that will help, but then you'll have much more than stated 5kg.

If you want to do astrophotography, then you'll want SW 150PDS version of the scope - it has 2" 10:1 focuser and is made with astrophotography in mind. That scope is already 5.3kg. Next, include camera and coma corrector and guide scope and guide camera.

Total is likely to be 7-8kg of gear and EQ5 is minimum for that.

Last sentence does not really make sense as neither of 150/750 nor 150/1200 is F/4 scope.

150/1200 is very nice visual scope and very very nice planetary instrument for both visual and imaging. By the way, planetary imaging is very different to ordinary imaging and you could do planetary images with 150/1200 and EQ3 type mount with appropriate camera.

Maybe try to formulate your question in form of - I wand to do this, this and this, but mostly this. I have car / backyard / apartment on 5 floor with no lift / poor back / strength of a superman / whatever as constraints that need to be taken into account.

What would be the best option?

In all likely hood if you want to do it all - you'll end up with at least two scopes. For example, if you want to do everything, then smallish refractor on EQ3 mount + 150/1200 dob mounted with EQ platform will cover almost every type of observing and imaging. But will that fit your budget? Yes, include your budget into question as well.

 

My bad! I meant f/8.

My buget would be of about 500$-600$. After a bit more research I think that with this price range the best for AP would be either an apochromat refractor (the EvoStar line from SkyWatcher seems really nice) or the PDS version of the 150/750 reflector on a used NEQ-5. 

The 150p photos are amazing @KevinPSJ ! Definitely worth the effort!

Now, as a final question: What are some websites that sell used astronomy equipment? All that I could find on secondhand websites in my country were toy refractors...

Clear skies!

[KevinPSJ]

> The 150p photos are amazing @KevinPSJ ! Definitely worth the effort!

Thanks Astrid. Sounds like with your budget you can go for a sturdier mount. That makes all the difference.  If I could start again I'd probably spend 2/3 of budget on mount and 1/3 on scope.

Do you have a camera already? You've not mentioned one and even an entry level DSLR like mine will certainly make a dent in your budget.

Kevin

[Astrid]

9 hours ago, KevinPSJ said:

> The 150p photos are amazing @KevinPSJ ! Definitely worth the effort!

Thanks Astrid. Sounds like with your budget you can go for a sturdier mount. That makes all the difference.  If I could start again I'd probably spend 2/3 of budget on mount and 1/3 on scope.

Do you have a camera already? You've not mentioned one and even an entry level DSLR like mine will certainly make a dent in your budget.

Kevin

No, I do not have a camera yet, but buying one won't really affect my buget as I have a separate one and I want to get the telescope fir.st 

The problem is that in my country telescope prices are a bit higher: for example the SkyWatcher 150/750 Explorer on an EQ3-2 is already about 589$, so I don't think I can go for a sturdier mount (maybe the steel version of the EQ3-2 though) .

[vlaiv]

8 minutes ago, Astrid said:

No, I do not have a camera yet, but buying one won't really affect my buget as I have a separate one and I want to get the telescope fir.st 

The problem is that in my country telescope prices are a bit higher: for example the SkyWatcher 150/750 Explorer on an EQ3-2 is already about 589$, so I don't think I can go for a sturdier mount (maybe the steel version of the EQ3-2 though) .

Where in Europe are you from? For most EU countries you can order online and only pay for transport (and hence you can choose where you order from as postage/transport will vary with distance).

How about looking at 130PDS instead? It will not save you considerable amount of money, but it will save you some weight and it is still very good imaging scope (it is about 4kg with tube rings).

[mikey2000]

I tried imaging with and EQ3 Pro (Aluminium legs) and 150PDS.  I used a QHY miniguidescope to keep the weight down and PHD guiding.   It was a struggle but I had lots of fun and got some OK results.

 

It was ultimately a dead-end though.  The EQ3 mount just isn't quite up to the job.  Apart from the weight limitations, mine had a long periodic error (could be guided out) and a short (20s approx) periodic error, which was almost impossible to get around.

Have you visited this thread to get an idea of what's possible?:

 

The other issue is that when learning astrophotography and guiding, it's hard enough already ("known unknowns") without battling against random errors introduced by the kit ("unknown unknown")

 

I ended up making a loss on the EQ3 and ended up with a lifetime-lasting EQ6r.   It is definitely worth saving up for a better mount if you are serious about AP....

 

That said, a DSLR with a 200mm to 400mm lens would probably work out reasonably well on an EQ3

[Astrid]

12 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Where in Europe are you from? For most EU countries you can order online and only pay for transport (and hence you can choose where you order from as postage/transport will vary with distance).

How about looking at 130PDS instead? It will not save you considerable amount of money, but it will save you some weight and it is still very good imaging scope (it is about 4kg with tube rings).

That's a great idea! I live in an eastern european country, but that'a a good idea! I think it'll be cheaper if I'll order my telescope from a british or american retailer and just pay for transport and probably fees.

Thank you for the 130PDS idea! I'll look into it.

[vlaiv]

1 minute ago, Astrid said:

That's a great idea! I live in an eastern european country, but that'a a good idea! I think it'll be cheaper if I'll order my telescope from a british or american retailer and just pay for transport and probably fees.

Thank you for the 130PDS idea! I'll look into it.

Check out your import fees and then decide based on that.

I also live outside of EU (in Serbia) and sometimes order items from retailers in EU, and now soon to leave EU - FLO in UK. Whenever I order from EU retailers, VAT is not included in the price of item, but I'll have to pay 10% customs fee and 20% Serbian VAT on top of that (both calculated on top of full price with shipping included).

We have one local retailer and sometimes items there are a bit less expensive but sometimes they are more expensive, and for most items - they simply don't sell it and I need to order it from either TS or FLO or somewhere else.

There is of course longer wait time for items shipped from EU - I'm still waiting for adapter that I ordered from FLO on 25th of August for example. There is also issue of transport. Telescopes are sensitive equipment and they are usually packaged really good - one scope that I order from TS traveled to another country first by mistake, was returned to Germany and again sent over to me - it arrived in perfect condition, but I have read stories where items got damaged in transport - so that is another concern.

Hopefully this gives you an idea of what is involved and will help you make your decision.

 

[SteveBz]

On 09/09/2020 at 19:26, Astrid said:

That's a great idea! I live in an eastern european country, but that'a a good idea! I think it'll be cheaper if I'll order my telescope from a british or american retailer and just pay for transport and probably fees.

Thank you for the 130PDS idea! I'll look into it.

I nearly always buy my stuff off eBay.  My C8-N a 200 mm diameter Newtonian with 1000 mm length cost 100 GB pounds including a frozen EQ5 mount.  I tried to fix the mount but ultimately bought a goto EQ5 from a member of my local club for 300 pounds.  Total 400 pounds.  It still works beautifully.

eBay is your friend.  I just posted a Canon DSLR to Poland for 12.50 pounds postage and tracking.

Also, local Astronomy clubs are very welcoming.  When I joined they just adopted me and lent me equipment to try out.  So that was great too.

Good luck. 

Steve.

[wimvb]

Putting a 150mm on an eq3 is pushing your luck. The scope itself is already near the load limit of the mount, but more important, the 150/750 is like a huge sail for that little mount. Imo, a small reflector, such as (up to) a Sky-Watcher 80ed, will be a lot easier for this mount to handle. 

if you go for a newtonian for astrophotography, get a P-DS scope (parabolic, dual speed). The regular P-versions may not come to focus with a camera attached. Also, keep the focal length short on the eq3. A long fl scope is more sensitive to vibrations and tracking errors.

Edited September 11, 2020 by wimvb