Meade Infinity 102

[Mak the Night]

3 hours ago, Ray1103 said:

A lot of food for thought there Mak. We seem to be on a coincidence kick! U mentioned my new TMB eyepiece and I just finished a long string about the aforementioned clone controversy. I found some of it quite hysterical and some very thoughtful. Obviously I have myself a clone since it quacks like a duck and I purchesed it from neither High Point or Astronomics. Of course the proof is in the pudding and the jury is still out. I hope it performs well no matter who made it because I do need it to perform, as you mention. If not, what TV eyepiece would you reccomend to replace it? Just in case. I'm an italian from brooklyn (not where I live now), and I hate getting ripped off. I could probably afford one other TV eyepiece for inder 150 US. I figure I would pick your brain if you are not too busy. Those comments and reviews on the TMB clones kind of got me feeling queasy. You have made yourself indespensible and I apprdciate it!

 

I think we're getting coincidentally dodgy weather lol! It's difficult to say about clones of any description. I have no experience with the TMB's of any make. One of the reasons I like TeleVues is that you know what you're getting when you buy one. In the UK prices for TV eyepieces are virtually consistent, whoever the retailer. When compared and adjusted to the US prices you know you are paying the recommended retail price. The eyepieces themselves are well designed, manufactured and give superb views. It's a possibility that these are some of the reasons TV have such a cult following around the world. Unfortunately, they are a tad pricey. The 15mm TV Plossl is good for around $100 and the 11mm Plossl is around $120 I believe. The eye relief is a tad tight on the 15mm at 10mm. I have a pair for my binoviewer. Using them in conjunction with a conventional Barlow should lengthen the eye relief a little. I'm not sure that apochromatic amplifiers/Barlows (like the Powermate) extend the eye relief though.

http://www.televue.com/engine/TV3b_page.asp?id=51&Tab=EP_EAP-15.0

These Barsta manufactured eyepieces are very highly rated on this forum, I haven't used one though: http://www.barsta.com/show_hdr.php?xname=MDA8V11&dname=OPFOR71&xpos=13

They are sold under a variety of names both here and your side of the pond.

These Barsta are branded BST from 365Astronomy: http://www.365astronomy.com/5mm-BST-Explorer-ED-Eyepiece.html

I can't recall what they are branded as in the US, I did know at one time, if I can recall the name I'll post a link.

I'm pretty sure these TS Optics NED's are Barsta: http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4934_TS-1-25--ED-Eyepiece-8mm---60--Flat-Field---high-contrast.html

So I think you could pick one of these up for under a 100 USD.

I really only know Vixen by the name and the fact I've got a couple of the NPL Plossls. The NPL's probably around $70 or less apiece Stateside.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-eyepieces/vixen-npl-eyepieces.html

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-eyepieces/vixen-slv-eyepieces.html

I was quite impressed by my NPL Plossls. Large eye lenses and bright, sharp images and appear well coated. The twist up plastic eyeguard on the NPL's is a bit weird and many think it gives them a 'plasticky' fragile feel. The bodies are metal though and although lightweight they appear well made.

These Hutech orthoscopics are very good as well, although they only have a 43° FOV they give superbly bright & contrasted views.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/clearance/hutech-orthoscopic-eyepiece.html

There are some nice Baader and Celestron wide angle eyepieces on the market as well that could be worth considering. I'd avoid the Luminos series with a fast scope though. They are well constructed but I think have a tendency to flare on bright objects.

The TMB clone might turn out to be fine.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ray of LIght]

Mak, Vixen NPL 10mm is on Amazon for 42.95 US. Is that good and is that a good FL for my needs? Prices seem reasonable across the spectrum. What do you think? 

[Mak the Night]

6 hours ago, Ray1103 said:

Mak, Vixen NPL 10mm is on Amazon for 42.95 US. Is that good and is that a good FL for my needs? Prices seem reasonable across the spectrum. What do you think? 

Well, from what I've seen of the 30mm and 25mm they are excellent value for money. A 10mm would give you 60x on your scope and 150x with your 2.5x Barlow. So you would get a nice medium power of 60x and 150x is a good planetary magnification. At around 150x the magnification is well within the capability of a 102mm scope and the optimal minimum for seeing planetary detail, although personally, I reckon anywhere between about 125x and 150x is the lower limit to see good detail on planetary targets. The 10mm NPL has a 6.5mm eye relief which sounds about average for a 10mm Plossl. I have no idea how big the field stop is on the 10mm. It certainly looks nice though, f/l's lower than 10mm tend to get a bit squinty on Plossls. I find using a 10mm Baader Eudiascopic pretty easy though.

http://www.amazon.com/Vixen-Plossl-Telescope-Eyepiece-39204/dp/B0036EHOUG

It depends on what you want it for, I'd say the 10mm, especially combined with a Barlow, would be good for planetary observing. Without the Barlow it would still give you a decent 60x which can be used on a variety of targets.

The 15mm would be ergonomically easier to use and almost certainly have a bigger field stop, which means that objects will stay in the field of view longer, plus the eye lens will be bigger. The downside is it will only give you 40x on its own, although that's a useful magnification for lunar viewing I find when conditions/transparency are not good. With your Barlow it will give you 100x.

To be honest, they both look good. I'm certainly quite pleased with my 30 & 25mm NPL's, although I think the large eye lens has something to do with the viewing experience. I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Had a long session on the Moon tonight, it did turn out relatively clear after all, proving that the BBC weather app on my tablet does actually work lol. The Moon was at Waning Gibbous 99.3% illumination and at transit at 01:46 BST at an altitude of 25.1° in Libra at 405, 741km distant. Conditions were average with occasional wispy cloud and the transparency could have been a lot better. Many features were quite clear though and there were some small but agreeable Terminator shadows, particularly around Gauss and Endymion.

As the seeing was not brilliant I varied magnifications between 33.3x and 100x but mainly stayed between 40x and 53x which gave me a chance to compare the 25mm Vixen NPL with a 19mm TeleVue Panoptic. The Vixen stood up well in comparison, considering it is a quarter the price of the TV. It was bright and sharp across most of the field of view. It almost has a clear contrasted orthoscopic like quality.

Not a particularly fair comparison as the Vixen has 18° less FOV as well as having a 6mm longer focal length.

http://www.amazon.com/TeleVue-Panoptic-19-0mm-Eyepiece-EPO-19-0/dp/B0001GJCYI/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1461384093&sr=8-2&keywords=televue+panoptic

It shows that you don't have to spend crazy money though to get good views. I spent a couple of hours swapping magnifications between the Vixen and the TV as conditions changed and the only thing that I really noticed was that the TV was heavier.

I also experimented with this old Celestron (GSO) 17mm Plossl for 58.8x. I thought it compared fairly well with the Antares 15mm and Hutech 18mm. It's still useful.

I got to see Mars and Saturn both before Transit. Saturn reached 16.7° and Mars reached 16.1°at Transit (both in Ophiucus). Mars was still a bright red disc, but I thought Saturn had improved since the last time I’d observed it and I could make out the rings even at 40x.

[Ray of LIght]

Fantastic Mak! I looked at the links you sent. The decision will be the FL I choose, 10 or 15 and what brand. First, as you said, is to test the TMB 4mm. If it is not up to snuff do I go with some type of WA configuration or barlow a normal AFOV eyepiece. Sounds like the Luminos would not be a good match for my 102 so I either spring for a TV or try one of the Vixen NPL. I can't seem to find a US seller for Barsta eyepieces so not sure of the costs. The Celestron Omni 9 and 15mm eyepieces I have I am not impressed with and that is why I decided to replace them with a higher quality unit. I am sure I will find a use for them down my observing road. The HPS Barlow I bought sounds like a good investment. Going to try to test some stuff tonight and if not a couple of nights during the week look promising. I hope the same for you! Of course the moon is full, or thereabouts, but Jupiter may be good (and challenging). I will not have the Barlow until next week unfortunately. Hope you keep finding time to provide feedback and good conversation! Hoping for clear skies ✨!

 

 

[Ray of LIght]

Mak, do you know if the Agena Starguider ED 60 degree eyepieces are similar to the Barsta and are any good? They may be branded BST also? They come in different focal lengths. I was looking at the 8mm with an advertised eye relief of 16mm (can that be right?). Price is 60 US.

[Mak the Night]

39 minutes ago, Ray1103 said:

Mak, do you know if the Agena Starguider ED 60 degree eyepieces are similar to the Barsta and are any good? They may be branded BST also? They come in different focal lengths. I was looking at the 8mm with an advertised eye relief of 16mm (can that be right?). Price is 60 US.

I'm pretty sure this: http://agenaastro.com/agena-1-25-dual-ed-eyepiece-8mm.html

is a Barsta, also sold as BST inter alia.

If this is the eyepiece in question, they look good for $60 which is about £42, which sounds about right. They seem to be generally between 40 & 50 quid each here.

[Mak the Night]

1 hour ago, Ray1103 said:

Fantastic Mak! I looked at the links you sent. The decision will be the FL I choose, 10 or 15 and what brand. First, as you said, is to test the TMB 4mm. If it is not up to snuff do I go with some type of WA configuration or barlow a normal AFOV eyepiece. Sounds like the Luminos would not be a good match for my 102 so I either spring for a TV or try one of the Vixen NPL. I can't seem to find a US seller for Barsta eyepieces so not sure of the costs. The Celestron Omni 9 and 15mm eyepieces I have I am not impressed with and that is why I decided to replace them with a higher quality unit. I am sure I will find a use for them down my observing road. The HPS Barlow I bought sounds like a good investment. Going to try to test some stuff tonight and if not a couple of nights during the week look promising. I hope the same for you! Of course the moon is full, or thereabouts, but Jupiter may be good (and challenging). I will not have the Barlow until next week unfortunately. Hope you keep finding time to provide feedback and good conversation! Hoping for clear skies ✨!

 

 

Yeah, I'd check the TMB out first, it may turn out well. As decent wide angle EP's are not cheap it may be an idea to find a focal length that can be conveniently shortened with a Barlow so as to give the eyepiece more flexibility. That way it can give you high and medium power use. On a manual mount I tend to prefer either a wide angle EP or a larger Plossl with a bigger field stop combined with a Barlow. In that way, a planetary target particularly, stays in frame longer when at magnifications of 100x or more.

The Celestron Omni series are pretty much standard GSO Plossls/Barlow with a cosmetic silver aluminium finish. That 17mm Celestron in my picture above is an old eyepiece of mine that I found out and is virtually identical to the Omni 15mm, apart from the colour and a couple of millimetres. It isn't a bad eyepiece at all, but it isn't my first choice to use.

Jupiter will reach Transit at 22:01 BST for me tonight. If you can get around 100x - 120x for an exit pupil near to 1.0mm or greater you may see some decent detail on Jupiter. It all depends on conditions though. I find that with a 102mm aperture (f/12.7) around 104x seemed to produce the best results. Be prepared to actually look at Jupiter for protracted periods and after a while you can often catch really sharp glimpses of detail momentarily. I think the GRS will be visible from around 21:00 BST (I think you're five or six hours behind British Summer Time depending on when your daylight saving time starts) to around midnight (BST).  Io will be close to the eastern side of Jupiter and eventually be occulted by around 21:30 I think.

The conditions have to be good to see the GRS on a 90mm scope.

The Luminos is a nice eyepiece, but you just aren't going to get get Nagler type views for less than half the price. I've had some pretty decent viewing with it, but I'm not the only person to notice its tendency to flare or white-out on bright objects. The 10mm Luminos suffers from this more than the 15mm I believe. It's interesting to notice that Celestron usually show it on their website in the diagonal of an f/10 SCT. Celestron have discontinued the Luminos series anyway now. I've heard a lot of good things about the Baader Morpheus series but I've not actually used one. I nearly bought a Baader Hyperion instead of the Luminos. Live and learn, right? lol

[Ray of LIght]

I think I am going to get the Starguider 8mm ED eyepiece. Seems like a good multi-purpose 60 degree eyepiece. Even if the TMB works out ok, I think that the Starguider may be a good addition to my collection at this point. What's your take? I appreciate you letting me bother you multiple times today!

[Mak the Night]

The Starguider/BST/Barsta are highly praised by people who have used them. I have a Barsta (Omegon) 2x shorty apochromatic Barlow and it's surprisingly good quality. If their eyepieces are the same quality as their Barlows you shouldn't be disappointed. A 60° FOV seems more like a planetary view size than anything else, so a lot of what you will see will probably be limited by the size of the field stop. It’s one of the reasons I acquired an 18.2mm DeLite, as it Barlows well, and has a 19.1mm field stop as opposed to the 9.6mm of the 9mm. Plus, it makes the 18.2mm DeLite more flexible.

[Ray of LIght]

I will be getting the Starguider I think. I will not order it until I hear more feedback (hopefully from you!). It sounds pretty good. I may have read the field stop is (for what its worth), is what I think you would  want for my needs. I read the eyepiece had a lot of the features that would really assist my observing. Thanks again for all you do!

[Ray of LIght]

I will be getting the Starguider I think. I will not order it until I hear more feedback (hopefully from you!). It sounds pretty good. I may have read the field stop is (for what its worth), is what I think you would  want for my needs. I read the eyepiece had a lot of the features that would really assist my observing. Thanks again for all you do!

[Mak the Night]

I haven't used the Barsta/Starguider, so it's difficult to be objective. Concerning the field stop, basically the larger the field stop the larger the view through the eyepiece regardless of apparent field of view. As it says on the TeleVue site ~ 'field stop: ring inside the eyepiece barrel that limits true and apparent field size.'

The largest field stop/true field you can have on a 1.25" eyepiece is 27mm. I have three eyepieces which actually manage this; the 32mm TV Plossl, 24mm Panoptic and the 35mm Baader Eudiascopic. The TV 8mm Plossl has a field stop of 6.5mm in comparison.

My Celestron 10mm Luminos has a field stop of 17mm which is bigger than the 12.7mm of my 10mm Delos which also has a 10° smaller FOV, although my 16mm Nagler has a 22.1mm field stop for the same FOV as the Luminos.

The upshot is, the bigger the field stop the longer the target object will stay in frame and the more likely you will get a target completely in frame. I think I could just about get M45 completely in frame on my 102mm Mak with both my 24mm Pan and 32mm Plossl (54x & 40x).

I'm pretty sure you'll like the eyepiece regardless. They are hugely popular.

[Ray of LIght]

Thanks for the field stop explanation. The exact figure is not stated but I heard so many good things about the Starguider that I ordered it. I finally got out observing last night, hope you did too, and got some good views of Jupiter. The TMB clone was ok and I will keep it but I was decidedly underwhelmed with its performance. Pretty sure I will be happier with the Agena/Barsta Starguider 8mm ED. I tried for some DSO's but between the moon and light pollution It didn't pan out. The rear of my condo is much darker and they will be taking some dead trees down, hopefully soon, so it should get better. I am stuck in the front for planetary observations but that's ok. Maybe a good UHC/LPR might help me there. The Baader Fringe Killer seemed to work well, and would have been better, if the TMB had been sharper, IMO. 

Just as an update, the Rigel Quickfinder is working out very well. Of course it works better with visible objects but those objects centered in the bullseye will be centered in the eyepiece. Hopefully the HPS Barlow and the Starguider 8mm will help me enjoy lunar/planetary observing more. Looking forward to Saturn and Mars in a couple of weeks (lots of trees to clear). Let me me know how you made out, pretty sure better than me ?, but with your advice and some decent gear I think I can jump some of my hurdles, thanks again! ✨

 

[Mak the Night]

You're welcome Ray. I've often been underwhelmed by new equipment in the past. The Luminos was a bit of a disappointment, although it's not a bad eyepiece. With astronomy, it's false economy usually to buy something cheaper, that inevitably only ends up sitting in the eyepiece box. I've had pleasant surprises though, like the Vixen NPL's.

Too cloudy last night for me unfortunately. I was hoping to see Petavius ,Langrenus & Endymion near the lunar Terminator. The rille in Petavius can really look good around this time of phase.

I hope the clouds clear for you.

[Ray of LIght]

Moon was behind trees until late last night lol! Will stay out later during the week. What you say is very true as I am learning! I think the Starguider is not so cheap as to be a reason for it not to be a good eyepiece, or so I hope. At least there no controversy, that I know of, surrounding them! Hoping clear skies to you too Mak ✨! Talk later!

[Mak the Night]

I'm pretty sure the Barsta/Starguider are good EP's, they always seem to get good reviews. Mars & Saturn rise with the Moon tonight. Although it will be past midnight before I could get a decent look.

 

It won't look that different at the Mars Opposition. Mars won't reach Transit until around 1:06 for me.

So the Moon may be problematic. 

[Ray of LIght]

Sounds interesting, hoping it works out for you later. My skies not supposed to be too good tonight so I need to wait a day or so. My best time to view Saturn and Mars will be in a couple of weeks because of my location. I will have most of my gear in order before then so will be ready! I have been thinking about the Baader Moon and Sky Glow filter to stack with my Fringe Killer to help with my sky pollution and street lights. Does that sound like a worthwhile expenditure? I read the Semi-Apo dims down the image too much. It is also Very expensive. Just a thought from a beginner ?! This astronomy stuff really starts to get under your skin, doesn't it ?? I have been pretty sick for awhile so my Harley is looking pretty in the garage and my handguns are in the gun cabinet, for now, but my telescope goes out. Thats a good thing. I know you know exactly how I feel. Talk later I hope!

[Mak the Night]

I'm not overly optimistic for tonight, it looks decidedly cloudy. The Baader Neodymium (aka Moon & Skyglow) Filter has been called the Swiss Army Knife of filters. I'm not sure how it handles street lights. It can help with the old yellow sodium lamps but I don't think it works so well with the LED types.

I think it would work very well with a 102mm refractor, on its own or stacked, as it's not a particularly aggressive filter. I use it a lot with my 102mm Mak and it can give lunar & planetary details a nice contrast. It really made Jupiter's Great Red Spot stand out a bit and appear quite red for me.

I would use the Neodymium for lunar viewing with my Mak and the binoviewer with orthoscopic 12.5mm Hutech eyepieces and a 1.6x Barlow nosepiece for really contrasted views at around 166x, especially near the Terminator. You should get some sharp lunar views with your scope and a decent eyepiece at around 150x - 170x combined with the Baader Neodymium. I remember getting some great views around Mons Pico and the lunar Alps.

Schroter's Valley is another region that responds well with orthoscopics and/or a Neodymium filter. The contrast of light and shadow even when the Terminator isn't in the vicinity can be subtly enhanced with the Neodymium in my experience. I certainly don't regret buying the Baader Neodymium.

These eleven EP's and an Omegon (Barsta) apochromatic Barlow are what I mainly take out with me in the 90mm grab'n'go bag. They're predominantly chosen for their abilities combined with a smallish size and weight. They are a selection designed to maximise the range and capabilities of the 90mm Mak, but a similar range would work on a 102mm scope. They range from a 30mm Vixen NPL (33.3x) to a 6mm Hutech orthoscopic (166.6x). Although, bear in mind, each of these would give you only about 60% of the magnification I get with a 1000mm f/l OTA.

The Vixens are mainly for Messier Objects and general low power planetary views when the seeing/transparency is pants, they get used a lot lol. The 19mm Panoptic and 18mm Hutech seem to be the next two to get the most use (for 53x and 55.5x). The TV gives a 68° view, while the Hutech gives a typically orthoscopic sharp contrast view for 42°. Very clear and bright, the 18mm Hutech can be reasonably Barlowed to a 9mm (111x) if I get the conditions. The 15mm Antares UPL (Masuyama clone) gives me 66.6x and is used quite a bit when the conditions allow, plus it Barlows to a very useful 133x. The 10mm Baader Eudiascopic (Masuyama clone) gives me an even 100x and is usually the logical choice if the viewing is good with the Antares and I want more magnification. Ultimately the Hutech 6mm gives me 166.6x but it's rare at the moment I can use that on a 90mm scope. I can even get 182x with the 11mm TV and the Barlow which is the Mak's theoretical limit. I have got decent views over 100x with the 90mm though. The Celestron (GSO) 13mm & 17mm Plossls fill in the gaps if needed.

As the weather improves (if it ever does lol) you'll probably find that you'll see more with your 102mm Meade. In only averagely decent conditions 130x - 170x should be achievable on a 4" scope. The Moon should look good anyway. With the Baader Neodymium and a magnification between at least 90x and 130x you should eventually see a fair bit of detail on Jupiter. Saturn should look good in a few weeks too.

[Ray of LIght]

What you have there would be my dream eyepiece collection. Will take years for me! Of course since I don't have all the time in the world I guess I can start soon, or now! Talk later I hope ✨!

[Mak the Night]

It's frustrating having the eyepieces and a very portable little scope and it being cloudy though!

[Ray of LIght]

This seems to be a frustrating avocation! I am in the same boat. It  will be okay, kind of a waiting game ✨!

[Mak the Night]

Jupiter will be at Transit for me at 21:52 BST (rises 15:09) at an altitude of 45.3° (Leo). The GRS should be visible from around 23:30 to around 01:30 BST.

I find it easier to perceive with a 102mm scope when it is nearer Transit (00:46 BST) than nearer the eastern or western rim of the planet. Cartes du Ciel is generally more accurate with the actual position of the GRS than Celestron SkyPortal and Stellarium. Although SkyPortal is much closer than Stellarium.

If you get a chance try looking for the GRS, if you can see it, it will be interesting to compare it when you view it with the Baader Neodymium. You should see it with a magnification of anywhere between 90x - 130x depending on conditions.   

I'm not optimistic about the clouds though ... lol

[Ray of LIght]

I'm going to try to order the Moon and Skyglow on Friday. The Barlow should be delivered today, not sure about the Starguider 8mm, no date from Agena yet. Even so, I can Barlow my 15mm Omni for 80x or my 9mm Omni for 130x. Not great eye relief with that one but oh well. At least until the Starguiger lands. Would love to get a glimpse of the GRS! Tonight does not look great for me either, plus I have a very sick dog to take care of. Wednesday looks better I think ✨

[Mak the Night]

The 15mm Omni isn't a bad eyepiece IMO. If your 2.5x Barlow arrives you should get 100x with it. There may be a chance of seeing the GRS at 80x, especially if you know roughly where it is and spend some time observing at the eyepiece. In my experience you have to be quite patient viewing Jupiter at 130x + with a 102mm scope. I'm pretty sure the weather here won't change for a bit anyway. I hope your dog gets well. 

[Ray of LIght]

Thanks Mak! Doesn't look good for my little dog but she will be in the sky. Anyway, i forgot my new Barlow is 2.5 so yes, thats great! I'm not used to the that spec so every little bit helps I guess! Once again you come through! 100x might be a good view and still give me some eye relief. Oh, Agena e-mailed that the Starguider will ship today so thats good. Looks like I am getting there. One day, on my bucket list, I will get an Apochromatic refractor and be done with it ✨