Astrophotography from new

[MND]

I have a good PC. I do also have a laptop but its really ancient, about 15 years old....would my mount cope with an ED80?

Id kind of like to use my existing equipment if possible to start out even if its not really suitable. To be honest budget isnt too much of an issue, within reason, but I'd rather go second hand so that if I do leave it all in the garage resale wont be such a big hit.

It all seems a bit of a minefield this astro lark.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

I have a good PC. I do also have a laptop but its really ancient, about 15 years old....would my mount cope with an ED80?

Id kind of like to use my existing equipment if possible to start out even if its not really suitable. To be honest budget isnt too much of an issue, within reason, but I'd rather go second hand so that if I do leave it all in the garage resale wont be such a big hit.

It all seems a bit of a minefield this astro lark.

A minefield it sure is.

The CG5 can easily handle the 80ED. No problem. Especially when you use an auto guider (will need Laptop or PC for that) you can do long exposures on this mount, without any problems.

A cheap guiding solution is going for a Finder guider + QHY5-II. Something like this:

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p5635_Astrolumina-ALccd5-II---new-version-of-the-Autoguider-Planetary-camera.html

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4064_TS-50mm-straight-viewfinder-and-mini-guiding-telescope-with-bracket-and-1-25--focu.html

FLO has a good price on the SW Evostar 80ED ota:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/pro-series/skywatcher-evostar-80ed-ds-pro-ota.html

Tho, you could also consider a small Newtonian, like the 150PDS. To cut costs even further. People seem to be doing amazing imaging with it these days (check the deepsky imaging section).

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ds-ota.html

But to be honest. The 80ED will be easier to work with. It's really "THE" most popular starter imaging scope to go for.

Oh.... and when you got the QHY5-II. Pop it into the C 9.25 SCT scope of Yours, with a good quality barlow and you have an amazing planetary imaging setup!

[Owmuchonomy]

There are 2 main reasons. 1.) The HEQ5 has a higher carring capacity. This means that the gears and motors are rated to hold X amount of weight and still perform to the standards it was designed for. If you go over this weight you start to push the gears and motors too hard and this can lead to unwanted things such as gears slipping and motor burning out. You have to put a lot of weight on it to burn out the motors so thats an extreme you and dont have to worry about that. 2.) More importantly; The HEQ5 has a more accurate tracking than the CG5. This plays into both unguided and guided imaging. The more accurate the tracking on the mount the longer you can image unguided and guided. This will allow for unguided imaging to be longer with out star trails appearing and if you abide by the weight limit you wont have to worry about back lash which will make the mount jump and this will produce swiggly lines since the stars will also jump. For guiding this makes it easier to guide out any possible errors such as poor polar alignment thus even longer subs ar achievable. So at short focal length the noticeable error rate is very forgiving and thus will take longer for you to notice any errors. But at long focal lengths the errors are noticeable very quickly because your are "zoomed-in". So the more accurate tracking of the mount the longer you can go without these error occuring and if you get into guiding the easier the guiding program can make adjustments so that the error are eliminated.

Another thing you need to consider is the the stated capacity of these cheaper mounts (not that they are cheap in any way just that they are not semi-proffesional mounts) is a visual capacity. So this means if you are only going to use this mount to look visually through your scope this is the max size scope this mount can carry without it straining to track accurately. If you go over your mount will wobble as it tracks and you will see this through the eye piece. BUT for AP with the cheaper mounts (HEQ5 included) the rule of thumb is the cut the stated visual capacity in half and this is the suggested weight limit for astrophotography. So if you have a mount with a visual capacity of 30kg but want to do AP with you will need to make sure you combined weight of all your imaging equipement is no more than 15kg. Or at least around 15kg. (That includes scope, camera, finder scope, guidescope, ect) As stated its a suggestion and there is no set rule as every mount behave differently even if they are the same make and model.

DSLR will be the much cheaper route especially if you dont have a laptop. But remeber you will need a laptop if you ever get into guiding. There are stand alone guiders that dont need a compture but they arent the best. Duable but not as good as a seperate guide cam/laptop setup.

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[Owmuchonomy]

There are 2 main reasons. 1.) The HEQ5 has a higher carring capacity. This means that the gears and motors are rated to hold X amount of weight and still perform to the standards it was designed for. If you go over this weight you start to push the gears and motors too hard and this can lead to unwanted things such as gears slipping and motor burning out. You have to put a lot of weight on it to burn out the motors so thats an extreme you and dont have to worry about that. 2.) More importantly; The HEQ5 has a more accurate tracking than the CG5. This plays into both unguided and guided imaging. The more accurate the tracking on the mount the longer you can image unguided and guided. This will allow for unguided imaging to be longer with out star trails appearing and if you abide by the weight limit you wont have to worry about back lash which will make the mount jump and this will produce swiggly lines since the stars will also jump. For guiding this makes it easier to guide out any possible errors such as poor polar alignment thus even longer subs ar achievable. So at short focal length the noticeable error rate is very forgiving and thus will take longer for you to notice any errors. But at long focal lengths the errors are noticeable very quickly because your are "zoomed-in". So the more accurate tracking of the mount the longer you can go without these error occuring and if you get into guiding the easier the guiding program can make adjustments so that the error are eliminated.

Another thing you need to consider is the the stated capacity of these cheaper mounts (not that they are cheap in any way just that they are not semi-proffesional mounts) is a visual capacity. So this means if you are only going to use this mount to look visually through your scope this is the max size scope this mount can carry without it straining to track accurately. If you go over your mount will wobble as it tracks and you will see this through the eye piece. BUT for AP with the cheaper mounts (HEQ5 included) the rule of thumb is the cut the stated visual capacity in half and this is the suggested weight limit for astrophotography. So if you have a mount with a visual capacity of 30kg but want to do AP with you will need to make sure you combined weight of all your imaging equipement is no more than 15kg. Or at least around 15kg. (That includes scope, camera, finder scope, guidescope, ect) As stated its a suggestion and there is no set rule as every mount behave differently even if they are the same make and model.

DSLR will be the much cheaper route especially if you dont have a laptop. But remeber you will need a laptop if you ever get into guiding. There are stand alone guiders that dont need a compture but they arent the best. Duable but not as good as a seperate guide cam/laptop setup.

Very sound advice. Saw a guy on YouTube wondering why his mount (CGEM) was making funny noises. He had an 11" SCT and guiding kit on it. He said it was within the weight limit which it may have been but it wasn't capable of dealing with the load. Stick to about 50% of the quoted load as described.

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[MND]

If I did choose to swap mounts first, what realistically would I get for my CG5 and have to pay for a mount capable of taking the 9.25, guider, ccd etc on the second hand market?

I paid 900 for the 9.25 and mount plus dew shield and box of various ep and filters.

if I did buy a new mountdI'd like it to be reasonably future proof and capable of coping with any paths I go off on within reason.

[AstroAdam]

It's a minefield!  But a fun minefield (if there's such a thing!).  

The thing to make sure is you don't outlay massive amounts of cash for little return.  Sometimes that requires patience in choosing the right setup, and sometimes requires taking risks and having a go.  Most kit is resell able for not too much loss as long as you don't pay over the odds for it in the first place.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

If I did choose to swap mounts first, what realistically would I get for my CG5 and have to pay for a mount capable of taking the 9.25, guider, ccd etc on the second hand market?

I paid 900 for the 9.25 and mount plus dew shield and box of various ep and filters.

if I did buy a new mountdI'd like it to be reasonably future proof and capable of coping with any paths I go off on within reason.

I recently bought the Skywatcher N EQ6 Pro SynScan myself. It has 20kg load capacity for Visual (+/-16kg for imaging).

This mount has now come down in price a bit, since the release of the new AZ-EQ6.

Such a mount will definitely future proof you a bit.  Can easily handle the C 9.25 SCT OTA + imaging / guiding equipment.

You can even piggy back an ED80 on the SCT, use the SCT for guiding, while widefield imaging with the 80ED.

[Owmuchonomy]

I agree with Astro Adam.  Its a tough one.  If your heart is really set on imaging then if I were in your position (which I sort of was in January) I'd forget trying the 9.25 SCT and go for a refractor if you want to capture most things.  You could upgrade your mount later.  If you really want to stick with the 9.25 you could look at investing in a planetary camera.  For me trying to finder guide an SCT is right on the limit of sanity and my mount.

Most importantly, try and decide what your short term goal is and go out and enjoy!  I didn't regret going the refractor route with a finder guider.  After all, good nights are few and far.  Good luck.

[ollypenrice]

I agree with Astro Adam.  Its a tough one.  If your heart is really set on imaging then if I were in your position (which I sort of was in January) I'd forget trying the 9.25 SCT and go for a refractor if you want to capture most things.  You could upgrade your mount later.  If you really want to stick with the 9.25 you could look at investing in a planetary camera.  For me trying to finder guide an SCT is right on the limit of sanity and my mount.

Most importantly, try and decide what your short term goal is and go out and enjoy!  I didn't regret going the refractor route with a finder guider.  After all, good nights are few and far.  Good luck.

I agree with this. The C9.25 is a very hard choice for a beginner. Long FL reflectors are best guided with Off Axis Guiders.

Olly

[MND]

I think this is about where I'm at.

I don't want to go all out and buy a ton of kit for it to gather dust so this is what I'm thinking along the lines of, please chip in if you think there would be a better route or options.

Make a start with my existing 9.25 and CG5 by

1. Buying a QHY5-II Which I can use for planetary and then hopefully double up as a guider? WIll get me into AP and learn thr ropes.

2. Buy an ED80 and a decent  colour CCD plus a guider scope

Then finally

3. Mount upgrade, which would allow me to use both the ED80 and the 9.25 with a focal reducer

I figure this way I can step back or ramp up whichever way it goes, I can also keep an eye on second hand market if anything pops up that looks a steal. I will also need a new laptop, to be honest I need one for work anyway, my current brick of a laptop just doesn't cut it anymore, was a state of the art 486! Any recomendations as regards laptops, I would imagine quick processor and large storage? I do have an ipad but I imagine that is out of the question?

[GuillermoBarrancos]

I think this is about where I'm at.

I don't want to go all out and buy a ton of kit for it to gather dust so this is what I'm thinking along the lines of, please chip in if you think there would be a better route or options.

Make a start with my existing 9.25 and CG5 by

1. Buying a QHY5-II Which I can use for planetary and then hopefully double up as a guider? WIll get me into AP and learn thr ropes.

2. Buy an ED80 and a decent  colour CCD plus a guider scope

Then finally

3. Mount upgrade, which would allow me to use both the ED80 and the 9.25 with a focal reducer

I figure this way I can step back or ramp up whichever way it goes, I can also keep an eye on second hand market if anything pops up that looks a steal. I will also need a new laptop, to be honest I need one for work anyway, my current brick of a laptop just doesn't cut it anymore, was a state of the art 486! Any recomendations as regards laptops, I would imagine quick processor and large storage? I do have an ipad but I imagine that is out of the question?

Option 2 is the easier route, but without guiding you will still be at the mercy of your Mount as how long exposures you will get, before PE / tracking errors kick in.

What you can do tho. Go for option 2. Learn the ropes of Perfect polar alignment (you need to buy a polar Scope for Your Mount by the way) and try push Your Mount to the limits by squeezing out as long as possible unguided exposures. See it as a Challenge and good Learning experience.

Then save up a bit, and get a finder guider + QHY5-II camera and you will be in business doing long exposures with your 80ED.

Which at the same time, you can then use your 9.25SCT again for fantastic planetary imaging.

A good Laptop. Check out brands like Asus. They offer very nice lightweight laptops with good performance.

I really like that brand. I have a MacBook Pro myself now, but had an Asus Laptop before.

PS. Or do you mean with guider Scope at point 2. That you going to buy a guide camera as well then? In which case you can ignore the unguided part.

[malc-c]

Interesting thread, and one I can't really comment on as I've never owned the same scope and mount, but often on here we read posts from people wanting to get into imaging with far less suitable equipment but they still have a go. 

Whilst deep sky imaging with your equipment is going to be very tough due to the guiding requirements, long focal length of the scope, and limitations of a dslr camera, for planetary work I dare say the scope and a decent web cam or dedicated video camera would return some excellent results on Jupiter, Mars and other planets.  If you are looking at DSO's then an ED 80 and a dslr would appear to be a good combination judging by the number of images posted on the forum from folk with this combination.

One other consideration for the recommendation of a Skywatcher HEQ5 / EQ6 is the software support.  EQMOD running on the PC with an EQDIRECT cable to the mount provides for easy communications between the planetarium program and guiding platforms.  I would do some research as to what software applications are available to allow you to do guided imaging with the Celestron mount.

One thing for sure, you'll need deep pockets when getting into imaging...especially if you go down the dedicated CCD route

[IanL]

I'd say you are now on the right track as you'll build up your skills incrementally that way, and only have to commit a relatively small extra outlay at first.

- Planetary imaging is a very interesting pursuit in its own right, and the results are much more instant (relatively speaking) compared to DSO imaging. You should be able to get some satisfying results with a little practice.  The QHY will work fine as a guider as well, so it is a useful step towards DSO imaging.

- The ED80 is much more likely to produce workable results on your existing mount.  You get away with using a finder as the guide scope; lots of people do it.  You'll just need to do a bit of research on suitable finders and adaptors/extension tubes to fit the QHY to it. Also keeps the weight down on the mount which will help.

- With a mount upgrade you could use the ED80 to guide the 9.25 (or vice-versa depending on your target).  You may have more joy with an OAG on the SCT though, depending on how good the mirror lock is.

The only things to consider are the choice of CCD camera - colour will be lighter and cheaper overall, but mono and filters has advantages (faster than OSC to produce the same image - counter-intuitive it may be, but true), plus on a doublet less issues with star bloat/contrast/fringes as you can re-focus for each filter.  The downside of mono is extra cost and weight, especially as you would probably need a focuser upgrade on the common ED80 models (they're okay with DSLRs and typical OSC CCDs, but on/beyond the limit for mono + FW).

[MND]

Sorry I probably didn't explain that well, I intend to do all in that order. Thinking I can buy the QHY5 and use with my current setup for planetary and then when I buy the ED80 and finder, I can use the QHY5 for guiding and purchase a colour CCD for the actual photography.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

Sorry I probably didn't explain that well, I intend to do all in that order. Thinking I can buy the QHY5 and use with my current setup for planetary and then when I buy the ED80 and finder, I can use the QHY5 for guiding and purchase a colour CCD for the actual photography.

That would be the best way to go about it!  You will not regret it. If you can, buy the QHY5L-II (either mono or color). Little price difference compared to the QHY5-II, but the QHY5L-II will give better results with planetary imaging.

You going to love imaging with the 9.25 SCT. If you can score a x2 or x3 TV Powermate somewhere, you can achieve some fantastic images of the planets. It really is a imaging hobby in it´s own right, with plenty of interesting challenges.

If you want to know what can be achieved with Your 9.25 SCT. Have a look here   :

http://www.damianpeach.com/barbados05.htm

[Owmuchonomy]

Glad you picked up on the planetary. Let me know how you get on because I'm doing this the other way round (planetary 2nd with my 9.25). Chris

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[MND]

Glad you picked up on the planetary. Let me know how you get on because I'm doing this the other way round (planetary 2nd with my 9.25). Chris

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I will do, if I can get images half as good as yours I'll be chuffed!

[MND]

Back to this again ( I know, I mull over things for ages before jumping in!). I was reading the manual for the 9.25 and it talks about Fastar/Hyperstar which drops the scope to F2. Is this a possibility or is it not all its cracked up to be?

[Ags]

From what I've heard, hyperstar is very challenging, particularly with regard to focusing.

[Owmuchonomy]

I looked into it briefly but Celestron seem to have scrapped it some time ago. Because it connects to the front corrector you are limited to non obstructive imaging devices and the focal length is reduced a lot. I'm sure somebody here will know more.

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[IanL]

Ceestron scrapped it, but you can still get the necessary parts if you have a compatible scope.  See here:

http://www.hyperstarimaging.com/index.php