Newbie, using my telescope and astrophotography...

[ninja87]

Hi 

I purchased my first telescope about 2 years ago which is a 1400mm 6" reflector. It cost me about £150 off eBay (and has allowed me to see the moon, Mars and Saturn which itself made the telescope worth the money for me. The finder scope is constructed quite cheaply and I have never been able to fully calibrate it due to it's poor design.

I am also into photography and taking photos through my telescope has always interested me. I have recently purchased the T-ring and T-ring adapter, a Telrad, a better quality 2 x barlow and also a 4mm eye piece. I have a Nikon D5100 so will be taking this out over the next few weeks to take some photos.

Realistically, with my setup, what can I expect from astrophotography?

Being into photography I realise what a difference quality optics can make, which has made me think if it's worth purchasing a new telescope, ideally with automated tracking and a GoTo system. I think the most I would like to spend would be £400.

Any help would be appreciated.

[LouisJB]

If you want to photograph deep sky objects, galaxies, nebula etc you'll need a mount with tracking (or better with a guiding setup) for long exposures (5mins +) - this is the single most important factor.

You might be able to take your current tube and put it on a new mount.

With any simple mount (un-motorised EQ, dobsonian etc) you're really going to be able to dabble in shots of the Sun (with suitable filters!) and Moon (as these are fast exposure so no tracking needed). Also, with a web cam you should be able to video some planets and stack them to make a reasonable image of the them.

What telescope did you get?

[Schorhr]

Hello,

if deepsky interests you, you may want to start with low focal lengths - the camera and lens itself.

This makes it easier as you don't have to use quite as precise tracking then with 1400mm focal length... Still, the results can be stunning.

http://www.j-baechli.ch/astrofotografie/Controller?action=GALLERY

These where done on a (sophisticated) barndoor mount, with ~24 to 200/300mm focal length.

You can either try mounting the camera on your existing eq mount and try 10-30s and driving it by hand, motorizing it, or build a barndoor

(Simple barndoor for shorter FL/exposures, http://www.astropix.com/BGDA/SAMPLE2/SAMPLE2.HTM / Type 4 barndoor for more accurate tracking http://education.jlab.org/tracker/ )

Is your telescope similar to the Seben Big Boss 150/1400 on EQ-2 (or "fake" EQ-3")?

Sadly those short tube catadioptre newtonians have several issues. I don't know how well they perform for deepsky even once collimated.

[ninja87]

If you want to photograph deep sky objects, galaxies, nebula etc you'll need a mount with tracking (or better with a guiding setup) for long exposures (5mins +) - this is the single most important factor.

You might be able to take your current tube and put it on a new mount.

With any simple mount (un-motorised EQ, dobsonian etc) you're really going to be able to dabble in shots of the Sun (with suitable filters!) and Moon (as these are fast exposure so no tracking needed). Also, with a web cam you should be able to video some planets and stack them to make a reasonable image of the them.

What telescope did you get?

I was considering buying a tracking mount but after educating myself more about astronomy it made me realise my current telescope is probably really poor quality compared to telescopes worth a few hundred £ more. I was looking at buying a new telescope which would have everything I need to at least make a start with better viewing and dabbling in astrophotography. Having a look on Amazon this telescope (to me) looks quite good, any opinions on this model? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Celestron-NexStar-SE-Computerised-Telescope/dp/B000GUFOBO/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387532941&sr=8-2&keywords=Celestron+Nexstar

[ninja87]

Hello,

if deepsky interests you, you may want to start with low focal lengths - the camera and lens itself.

This makes it easier as you don't have to use quite as precise tracking then with 1400mm focal length... Still, the results can be stunning.

http://www.j-baechli.ch/astrofotografie/Controller?action=GALLERY

These where done on a (sophisticated) barndoor mount, with ~24 to 200/300mm focal length.

You can either try mounting the camera on your existing eq mount and try 10-30s and driving it by hand, motorizing it, or build a barndoor

(Simple barndoor for shorter FL/exposures, http://www.astropix.com/BGDA/SAMPLE2/SAMPLE2.HTM / Type 4 barndoor for more accurate tracking http://education.jlab.org/tracker/ )

Is your telescope similar to the Seben Big Boss 150/1400 on EQ-2 (or "fake" EQ-3")?

Sadly those short tube catadioptre newtonians have several issues. I don't know how well they perform for deepsky even once collimated.

Wow, those photos are impressive considering they were taken with a 200-300mm lenses. 

Yes, my telescope is very similar to the Seben Big Boss but it is black. For £150 I didn't really expect much, so after seeing Saturn and its rings I was amazed! The biggest frustration I have with my telescope was manually tracking everything, to have a telescope which can automatically find and track objects for me would be brilliant and would make viewing more fun. 

My finder scope is so off (I couldn't move it to the correct place) I would have to aim and hope for the best with the telescope trying to find planets... not ideal! Did my research online and bought a Telrad, this will be a godsend for me...

[Schorhr]

Be aware that Maksutovs have several issues.

They have a rather long cool-down time due to their closed design.

They have a high obstruction, reducing contrast.

They have a long focal length (guiding would be mandatory for long exposures)

and Their use as rich/wide-field telescopes is limited. You can of course use a reducer and some of the larger Maks allow to use a t2-to-2" eyepiece adapter to some extend.

The mount itself is an AlzAz mount, meaning it will show field rotation. Long deepsky exposures would only be possible with a wedge.

I don't know about the larger Celestron mounts, but the smaller Nexstar SLT's gear has a lot of play, so you allways have to drive toward the object from the same direction to minimize drift/backslash...

Therefore you can get them with a mak or 130/650 rich fielder from for (starting at) 250gbp/300€ though the 130/650 is not suited for DSLR afaik as it does not have as much backfocus as the 130pds.

Speaking of, the 130pds is relativly cheap and light also, and would work for both DSO and planetary to some extend...

...though I am not sure your current mount could handle it, what type is it?

[Schorhr]

Wow, those photos are impressive considering they were taken with a 200-300mm lenses. 

 

Yes, my telescope is very similar to the Seben Big Boss but it is black. For £150 I didn't really expect much, so after seeing Saturn and its rings I was amazed! The biggest frustration I have with my telescope was manually tracking everything, to have a telescope which can automatically find and track objects for me would be brilliant and would make viewing more fun. 

 

My finder scope is so off (I couldn't move it to the correct place) I would have to aim and hope for the best with the telescope trying to find planets... not ideal! Did my research online and bought a Telrad, this will be a godsend for me...

Yes, I find them impressive too (not mine ;-) ). Some deep sky objects are appearing fairly large, even with less focal length a lot is possible. And makes the set-up cheaper, easier to handle and still create nice results.

Yes, the 150/1400 catadioptre will still show a lot even if they have some flaws. The best equipment is which you allready own ;-)

Actually manual tracking is not so bad if you have a dobsonian alt-az mount (not suited for imaging) as it's more intuitive, easier and quicker to move compared to a eq mount. Manually tracking with it is smooth too, even at 200-300x. The main thing about dobsonians is the low price, more aperture is stunning visually. Many seem to start imaging with a small telescope and use a larger dobsonian visual - One telescope for everything usually results in some sort of compromise. At least with limited budget.

Telrad-> Good choice! With a good book/map or print-outs it's hard to beat, and can be even quicker then GoTo at times ;-)

Of course with deep sky objects it also depends how dark your sky is at your location and if you have to carry the telescope or fit it into a car. Something that's often forgotten given how small the telescopes look on the store / catalog pictures ;-)

[ninja87]

Be aware that Maksutovs have several issues.

They have a rather long cool-down time due to their closed design.

They have a high obstruction, reducing contrast.

They have a long focal length (guiding would be mandatory for long exposures)

and Their use as rich/wide-field telescopes is limited. You can of course use a reducer and some of the larger Maks allow to use a t2-to-2" eyepiece adapter to some extend.

The mount itself is an AlzAz mount, meaning it will show field rotation. Long deepsky exposures would only be possible with a wedge.

I don't know about the larger Celestron mounts, but the smaller Nexstar SLT's gear has a lot of play, so you allways have to drive toward the object from the same direction to minimize drift/backslash...

Therefore you can get them with a mak or 130/650 rich fielder from for (starting at) 250gbp/300€ though the 130/650 is not suited for DSLR afaik as it does not have as much backfocus as the 130pds.

Speaking of, the 130pds is relativly cheap and light also, and would work for both DSO and planetary to some extend...

...though I am not sure your current mount could handle it, what type is it?

Ah, I just noticed it was an AlzAz, I understand these aren't great for astrophotography as the object will rotate while being tracked.

I think my current telescope mount is EQ? Or do you mean how it fits on to the tripod? If so, not sure...

Can you recommend the best value for money EQ telescope for my price range which has GoTo and automated tracking? Ideally I'd like to spend £400 but can push to £600 if it's worth the extra money.

[Schorhr]

Ah, I just noticed it was an AlzAz, I understand these aren't great for astrophotography as the object will rotate while being tracked.

 

I think my current telescope mount is EQ? Or do you mean how it fits on to the tripod? If so, not sure...

 

Can you recommend the best value for money EQ telescope for my price range which has GoTo and automated tracking? Ideally I'd like to spend £400 but can push to £600 if it's worth the extra money.

Hello,

it really depends on what kind of images you want to take.

If your main focus is planets you can happily use a altAz mount. Single pictures of planets and moon only require very short eposure times (<second). Even if some field rotation occurs over the duration of your imaging, software can correct that.

You also will be able to do deepsky imaging up to around 20, 30 seconds until field rotation becomes noticeably.

For imaging planets a DSLR is not ideal. Usually webcams or specific cameras are used, along with a barlow, with their smaller chip the image scale is larger (crop factor etc.).

With a DSLR the planet's smaller but you can still use it especially if it has a video mode.

Single images of almost anything will be blurry. With video you can pick the frames that have the lowest seeing effect and stack them with software to create a sharper image later.

~

If deepsky imaging is your main goal, you should start with lower focal lengths. Especially with your budget it get's quite expensive, fast! Guiding, camera and such alone...

The smallest set up would be a Neq3 with ED80 or a 130pds.

Just the NEQ3 goto mount costs 388gbp. I only have a Astro3, but I would extrapolate that the 130pds should be the upper limit for this mount, as for imaging with the 150/750 it gets very mixed reviews.

EQ5 goto costs 500gbp alone.

If you want to enter astro photography on a more sophisticated level, you could consider a EQ6, start with your camera, and later you have a sturdy mount for larger telescopes.

Also, if imaging is your goal, stay away from most bundles. Usually the shops sell the largest telescope the mount can somewhat carry, even for visual it's often too shaky.

I am just dabbling in imaging as it's a very expensive undertaking if you want to do it seriously.

Even a 80mm telescope can show more on images then a 8" visually ever will.

But visually, under 8" deepsky objects show very little details, so if you just want to do imaging on the side, you should still consider more aperture on a simpler mount for visual use.

[LouisJB]

The link to the nexstar 6 - it's an alt-az mount so ultimately too limited for astrophotography.

More than your budget, but something like this 150PDS and EQ5 goto would be a better bet. http://www.365astronomy.com/skywatcher-explorer150pds-eq5-pro-synscan-computerised-goto-newtonian-reflector-telescope-p-2069.html?gclid=CKOFs_rQvrsCFdOWtAodIVoADg 

If you want to spread the cost, maybe get the mount and put your current newt on it, see what you can do with it. Also try your camera and zoom lens on the mount too. The tracking should mean you can start to get some good shots.

Later, sell your current tube and mount and then add the new tube of your choosing to the EQ mount. OTA wise, a 150PDS would be pretty good place to start. Both mount and tube come up second hand, so for probably not more than £500 you should be up and running.

[ninja87]

Thanks for your informative posts. You have made me think harder about what I want from astronomy. I understand that to get decent imaging of deep sky objects it would require a serious financial outlay which I can't afford. It seems to be a really expensive hobby!

Regarding imaging, I would be happy to get some half decent shots of the moon, Saturn and Jupiter. If I can get some low quality shots of Andromeda and some other deep space objects this would exceed my expectations. I'm by no means expecting NASA type images, as long as you can tell what it is in the image I would be extremely happy so I can record my experience of what I see.

I think I will try my new equipment out with my current telescope and see what results I get from them. 

[Schorhr]

If you just want to document what you've seen (much like I) you can get away with a AltAz tracking mount :-)

There are some other options. None of them are ideal, but some will enable you to see more visual while making "snapshots" and having a portable travel setup, too.

-A dobsonian with AltAz tracking. But those are expensive: 8" Dob £280, with GoTo £750!!!

IMHO it would be better to get a big dob and a small telescope for imaging.

-Ever thought of video astronomy? The cameras start at £50, from £100 already modified and with longer sense-up. The quality is low (low resolution, high noise) but they make deepsky objects visible within seconds!

+The NexStar SLT mount and a 5" mak or better 5" newtonian. £285-£360. They have a bit less aperture then your current telescope but are easier to handle - and better optics afaik. The problem with the Newtonian is that you can't get in focus with a DSLR if you want to use that as well. The Mount itself seems to be a bit more expensive in the UK (Germany: 167gbp, UK ~200gbp) .

130P-DS + mount + camera could work.

Still enough left over for a bigger 8" dob!

Enough money to spare for a big dobsonian, as visual, aperture is key...

http://clarkvision.com/visastro/m51-apert/

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.de&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://binoviewer.at/beobachtungspraxis/teleskopvergleich_deepsky.htm&usg=ALkJrhi10I9FA_U2y7yOXkDBy_rbldQgCg

-Third solution:

A 8" Dobsonian and a EQ tracking platform (from 300gbp or much cheaper DIY!).

No goto, just tracking (EQ tracking even), planets and moon are very possible as they stay in view for up to an hour and a little drift is not critical for short exposure imaging with the right software, and short explosures of nebulae/galaxies are indeed possible. Not as nice as with a EQ mount, but it is possible (depending on how good it's aligned several seconds to minutes) .

[ninja87]

Thanks, another informative post.

I've been browsing on this forum's recommend telescope website and came across these 2 telescopes.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150pl-eq-3-pro-goto.html

and

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-150p-ds-eq-5-pro-goto.html

Could you please explain why the more expensive one is better? Looking at the specs they seem very similiar and without understanding all the acronyms it's difficult to understand. Cheers

[Schorhr]

5" 1200mm on EQ3: Forget it. Long leaver, relativly heavy, the mount is way to weak for that.

5" 750mm on EQ5: Probably a "four out of five" regarding visual use, imaging should be somewhat possible.

You will still have to consider guiding+camera for long exposures, and a GOOD barlow for planetary imaging as the focal length is short.

Consider buying "making every photon count" before getting into imaging.

If you are not aware of difference of the multiple mounts it is critical you read into the subject before just going out there and buying some kit.

As I said for imaging you will probably find most sets offered not suitable or at least some sort of compromise. EQ3 and 5" is probably a no-go.

If you just want to make snapshots, I would not invest so much money. Imaging is a whole different universe.

[swag72]

Firstly, the second one is on an EQ5 mount which is more stable than the EQ3 offering on the other one. As the mount is THE most important thing in imaging, then you want to get as good a mount as you can humanly afford. You may wish to get into imaging DSO's and for that you will benefit from long exposures - again the EQ5 will be better in this regard.

There's also something about the second scope being optimised for imaging with regards the dual speed focuser (always good to have) and a shortened tube. I think without the shortened tune you will struggle to reach focus and will need to do a mod of moving either the mirror or doing something with the focuser. I am sure that someone will come along soon and tell you the exact difference.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the book 'Making Every Photon Count' yet - I note that you say you may only dabble in DSO's but it is an excellent introduction into imaging and will really help you to understand what you will benefit from and why.

You're right about AP being very expensive. It can be done on a budget of course, but you need to be realistic about your expectation with the more budget kit. You seem to be doing your homework, which is an absolute must otherwise you can waste a lot of ££'s on buying the wrong stuff.

[ninja87]

I'm glad I came to this forum, people here really know their stuff...

I think I'm going to get the book you have recommended and play about with my new equipment and see what sort of results I get. I'm in no rush to buy a new telescope and don't fancy burning money! I just want to see what's possible for a modest budget. My camera has a decent sensor inside it which is capable of handling high ISOs with acceptable noise. Hopefully, I may find this meets my needs.