Totally automated setup.

[eddie3000]

I wasn't sure this is the correct place to post this. Whether it's an observing technique or a setup is another matter of discussion. Anyhow...

It's been quite some time since I have done any observing or astrophotography due to lack of time. My two baby daughters require all my atention while I am not at work. I need the little time left for sleeping.

I want to setup a totally automated system that starts up automatically at night and takes photos of whatever I tell it, and automatically saves the images on a PC, and even stack 'em for me as well. The biggest problem here is not the hardware, I think the computer programming is probably the toughest task. Building an observatory is a bit of a challenge too.

Has anybody done this? Where can I start? Is there any software available that already does this?

Thanks.

[swag72]

There's a few folks on here and other forums with automated setups. I'll have a look around and link to them for you.

From what I have read though, it's rather on the expensice side as you need total and utter reliability and that comes at a cost.

Perfrej on here has an automated setup (or at least has it all in place to work fully automated) Here's his website http://astro.frejvall.se/ so you can have a read.

[ronin]

Someone posted about joining a site/group/company where you paid a monthly/annual subscription and then specified objects to be viewed and imaged. Person was I think in Edingburugh and fed up of the clouds/weather.

I assume they did some processing (maybe not) and that the data was available to you. That would seem a better option as if you do not have time to observe then I cannot see you having the time to buy, build and set up the type of system that you are talking about. The set up of the type of system you re asking about will take a fair bit of money and a good amount of time, and you seem not to have the time.

All I need now is to remember which section the post was on.

[ronin]

Cannot locate the post that was made, someone else may be able to identify it, however I cannot at this time.

I was going to put a reply in but didn't bother and that would have maked it in the list of Content.

I guess that it is about what you need and that is the annoying aspect. At the time you had the idea that selling all your equipment and getting images from half way round the world was a strange thing to do as your involvement is to some extent minimal. However as you are in a position where perhaps taking out a one year subscription could be of great use.

I have a feeling thet the opinion on the idea was somewhat polarised. Think JamesF posted on it so perhaps a PM to ask him if he could identify the thread would be useful.

[swag72]

Was this the thread you were thinking of?

http://stargazerslou...70#entry1956574

[eddie3000]

Yes, Ronin, your are right about the lack time. THis is a time consuming project. I do have a bit of time every now and then, and I don't mind if it takes me a year or two to set it up.

About hiring remote equipment, well, I find doing it myself is part of the fun.

Frejvall's page looks very interesing. I am going to read through it.

Also, except for the observatory (a shed with an opening roof), I have a scope, goto motorized mount, DSLRs, computers (new and old), tons of cables, and lots of bits and pieces. I am confident that I can do it, even though I am no expert in electronics nor programming, I have a little experience in both. It's just a matter of putting it all together. I already have software that controls my DSLRs, fully configurable and automatable for months, even years. It provides total control over image acquisition. There are many projects for connecting mounts to computers. I have done quite a bit of scripting so my computers can run tedious jobs automatically, so this project looks feasible. I do not have time to write a complete software solution, nor do I know how, but I do think there must be enough software out there to put together and get the job done.

I might quit after some time, who knows? But I am at least going to try.

[NickK]

My aim is to create a completely automated mobile setup; including developing the following from scratch:

* framework for Apple Macs called AOSX

* ATIK camera drivers for Apple Macs (I have three ATIK cameras so it seems a worth cause!)

* automated fine focusing using Borg helical focuser

* automated polar alignment (I want to take a hatchet to the EQ6's base so the alt/az can be automated - or - go for fast model building

The aim is to get down to a 10 minute deployment of an EQ6 + scope etc.

[ronin]

swag72, yes that was the one, for what eddie is talking about it looks as if it could be relevant,

I see it is up to 5 pages of opinions now.

Not sure if that is good or bad but I guess that it is an approach that divides opinion.

At the time I read it I thought who would want to do that, now Eddie seems to have supplied a fairly good reason for considering it. Strange world isn't it.

[eddie3000]

Yes, the world is strange enough. I do enjoy doing things myself because I learn, and it makes me feel good too (like many other hobbyists). I also enjoy staying up all night long observing or just waiting for my equipment to gather enough light to get a nice picture. Unfortunately, I can't do it now. But what if I could get my gear to do what I enjoy without me actually being there? Now that sounds like fun. I remember all my colleagues at work making fun of me when they heard I was about to become a father. "Haha, say bye bye to all your hobbies" "Your life no longer belongs to you" and things like that. It'd be nice to see their faces when I turn up nearly every day with a new photo and say "I stayed up all night last night, look at the picture I took, and gosh, I'm as fresh as a cucumber!". Yes, it sounds a bit childish, but I still consider myself to be a child with expensive toys.

And even though I'm a bit off topic, I still remember when I made my cnc router. It took some time (and money) to make, but it was awesome to be watching the tv in the lounge while the machine was working for hours on insanely complex carvings in the garage, carvings I would never be capable of doing by hand. I suddenly started to give my family and friends all sorts of carved wooden decorations or utensils "made by me". I kept the cnc a secret for some time and told them how many nights I had stayed up carving their present with love.

[eddie3000]

Any software for doing what I want? Anyone?

[perfrej]

Good Morning!

YEs, there are two reasonable products that do what you want. One is CCD Autopilot, the other ACP. The former is cheaper and does not support the same level of advanced scheduling but is still a viable solution. I have used both, CCD Autopilot more than ACP and am moving deeper into ACP territory.

DSLR may be an issue but that can probably be solved. CCD is better. You also need a trustworthy mount, even though I have successfully made it work with my NEQ6 as well.

This is the shopping list in software terms:

CCD Autopilot

===========

CCD Autopilot

MaximDL (or CCDSoft)

FocusMax

Pinpoint (comes with Maxim but needs upgrading to full version)

Windows 7 (XP works, but hey, it's 12 years old)

ACP

===

ACP

ACP Scheduler

MaximDL

Pinpoint (bundled with ACP, same company)

FocusMax

Windows 7

ACP needs a lot of work in scripting in order to be really usable but that is a one-time task. The scheduler is fantastic and the system is very robust.

CCD Autopilot is not as robust as ACP and does not have as advanced a scheduler as ACP. It does, however, work very well and is dirt cheap compared to ACP. You will find that all the remote "rent-a-scope" places use ACP.

Automation is great and definitely something you should get into given your family situation. In my case it is a matter of geting more data, having fun developing the systems and, most importantly, I do not like to be up late. Sleep is my friend. I also find very little joy in observing and two of my three scopes have never seen an eyepiece.

Over the course of this summer I will build two observatories. One is a four-pier collaboration project in the mountains in Provence, the other is a tiny one on an island in the Stockholm archipelago. Both will use ACP and will be fully autonomous. In fact, with ACP you can forget about everything and just supply a list of targets lasting a full season if you like.

Fire away with questions if you like - I am here every day more or less.

/per

[eddie3000]

Hello Perfrej and thanks for your answer.

Your software solutions seem great, but costly. If I spent the ammount you probably have invested my wife would probably do something terribly nasty to me. I was thinking in something cheaper, and maybe not as professional for the moment. I am not sure what I am going to do, but I am definitely going to do something. It is probably going to take me a lot of time to get it working.

It probably won't be as robust as the solutions you have suggested, but hopefully it will keep me entertained for some time. So that you and others can give me your opinions here is what I had in mind. I have done scripting with linux, and I am going to learn scripting for windows (or batch files). I have also started (this morning) to learn c++ in case it comes in handy. I have two nikon dslrs (one with cmos, the other with ccd, but that at the moment is a different problem) and a program that totally controls them through usb, and also allows for it's own type of scripts and full automation. It does not feature specific astrophotography features, but it can do the job fairly well. Using a script I can get the computer to run this program and, hopefully, also DSS with the same script to start stacking.

The part I have not solved yet is the mount control, I have an HEQ5, and I have seen there are free solutions out there, but I have not yet figured how to take full control of them. I have downloaded ascom and guidemaster, but still haven't used them (due to lack of time haha). How to get to control the mount to select different targets on different days is still a mistery to me.

I was planning in remote control using a remote desktop application. I've used a few, but the easiest I think might be teamviewer (which is free for private use). It requires a fairly fast internet connection to work well, but I have used it succesfully with great results using a cell phone internet connection.

As I am a linux user, I would run all these windows programs in virtual environment (virtualbox) with their own scripts. Due to the fact that all these programs run under windows, it might be best to install windows in the first place. Maybe ascom drivers won't work easily in a virtual environment. Mmm... I dunno.

I have read about people needing rain detectors to close the observatory and such, but I live in Spain. It doesn't rain much, and even when the weather bloke says it's going to rain, it sometimes doesn't. So I guess I can live without a rain detector, and rely on the weather reports to program the photographic sessions.

About the dslrs, yes, they are not ideal. But it's what I have. I was planning in striping the nikon d80, that uses a ccd, and cooling it. The d80 has never been good for astronomy, but I have seen the noise levels drop astonishingly with temperature (I put it in the freezer without the battery, and later took it out and used it; I saw how the noise levels increased a lot as the camera warmed up). I have already experimented with a bunch of peltier cells I got from ebay, and I reckon I can bring the temp down to well below zero. Because it's my "old" camera, that's the one I'll be stripping. But that's another project, and quite a bit off topic really. There are many threads about this.

I am still starting the planning. Maybe what I'm trying to do is a waste of time and I would be better off buying a ready to use software solution.

[perfrej]

Eddie,

Virtualbox works fine with all of ASCOM so that will not be an issue. ASCOM is also totally scriptable but you will need to work with JScript or VBScript, not cmd or bat files. If you, at a later and more economically excessive period want to move up the ladder and invest in ACP, you will find that all things therein are scripted JS or VBS.

Getting everything to work properly in an automated setup is a complicated task. My suggestion is that you bite the smallest bullits in the software bunch and get CCDSoft and CCD Autopilot Basic. ACP is an expensive piece of sofftware but extremely cool. It is, however, not necessary. I beleive my suggested bullit is less than a fifth of the ACP price tag (CCDSoft is £250 and CCDAP is £75).

Your mount needs ASCOM Platform 6 SP1 and EQMOD. Once those are installed it becomes totally scriptable in the VBScript or JScript environment.

/per

[eddie3000]

Thankyou very much for such a helpful reply. I'll take good note of the programs you recommend. 325 pounds isn't too much. If I give up trying to do it myself I will seriously consider purchasing them.