possible cheap ccd camera?

[bogdog]

whilst waiting on the endless days of clouds to roll on out the way,i am stuck browsing

various sites,looking at stuff i cant afford and stuff i can...with the goal of finding

something usefull to use in this hobby

and came across this,and wondered if it could be adapted like the xbox/various webcam idea?

anybody have any idea whether this would work as a cam for telescope use?

Avtech AVC452B (1/3 inch) Super High Resolution CCD IR LED Camera with Sony Effio DSP

AVTECH Sony Effio camera series features the best cost and performance. It brings you the best viewing with high resolution and clear images, even at dark. When the light fluid fluctuates, the viewing looks still stable and shows the true color of the images.

This exquisite IR camera is used for day and night surveillance with the IR projection distance up to 15 meters at dark. What's more, its weather-proof design of IP67 makes this product also suitable for outdoor use.

General

•Sensor - 1/3" H.R. With Sony Effio-E

•Number of Pixels - 768(H)*494(V) / 752(H)*582(V)

•Min. Illumination - 0.1 Lux / F2.0, 0 Lux (IR ON)

•Electronic Shutter - 1/60 (1/50) to 1/100,000 sec.

•Lens - f3.6mm / F2.0

•IRIS Mode - AES

•IR LED - 21 units

•IR Effective Distance - Up to 15 Meters

•IP Rating - IP67

•Operating Temperature - −20℃~ 40℃

•Power Source (±10%) - DC12V

•Current / Power consumption (±10%) - 70mA (IR OFF), 270mA (IR ON)

•Dimensions (mm) - 140.19(L) x 55.2(W) x 79.58(H)

http://www.ebuyer.com/431103-avtech-avc452b-1-3-inch-super-high-resolution-ccd-ir-led-camera-with-avc452b

[E621Keith]

What are you hoping to achieve? Are you planning to do planetary imaging or deep sky imaging.

Many security cameras have analogue output, the additional layer of D-A and A-D conversion may degrade the signal. The IR illuminator, lens and the water proof housing is pointless for astronomy. You will have to take the CCD and electronics out and mount it in another housing.

Is there any reason why you don't want to mod a Xbox cam?

Having said all that. With the right know how it is possible do much more with a modified webcam than most people with the multi thousand pounds CCD. Rolf Olsen imaged the circumstellar disk around another star with a hacked webcam. http://www.rolfolsenastrophotography.com/Astrophotography/Beta-Pictoris/25329689_mXhgjt#!i=2082564391&k=LTZJHWG

[bogdog]

to do both,

i know the camera would have to be destroyed/rehoused i was just wondering if this had any benefits over a webcam

and i have already done 2 webcams a trust and a microsoft lifecam

[Ajohn]

There are some black and white C-Mount video cameras about that stack images internally for low light work without flooding the scene with light via a lot of led's.

There are board cameras about with the same type of electronics on them as the spec you mention without the led's. These have the same lens fitting as the one on the usual web cam astro adapter and are probably a lot cheaper fitted with a high spec chip.

The web cam used for the star shot is probably one of Philips's with a ccd rather than a cmos sensor. They did 2 versions one normal and one low light. I don't think anyone makes a web cam with a ccd sensor any more. All sorts of things can be done to the old Phillips cam including fitting it with a larger sensor. There is also software about to extract raw and do a number of other things. Some other manufacturers also produced cameras based round the same ccd sensor but it's important to get model numbers correct for the low light versions. Could be that old xbox cameras used ccd sensors as well but while I was interested in the subject I never saw any mention of it.

Not really on topic but I have seen good moon shots taken with an Olympus E-PL1 but looking at ebay prices the days of super cheap because a new model has come out are gone. The E-P3 seems to have better low light manual focusing performance when used as a normal camera even though the sensor is the same. I took some 10 sec sky exposures with an E-P3 out of curiosity with a camera lens. It seems to stack internally so may not be of use for star type work. On the other hand these cameras have a vast number of modes.

The original canon digital rebel, 300d in the UK has an amazing low light performance. To such an extent in some cases that one UK retailer was selecting them for astro work at no cost.

Some microscope cameras have been used for astro work. The best bet is probably the Tucsen 3mp camera.

Just some "lower" cost options.

John

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[Grotemobile]

http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro-Imagers-Opticstar.asp?p=0_10_0_50

How about something like this.They start from £99

for the comos cameras.

http://www.opticstar.com/Run/Astronomy/Astro-Imagers-Opticstar.asp?p=0_10_0_50_91

At least you know its going to work ok.

Steve.

[E621Keith]

...

The web cam used for the star shot is probably one of Philips's with a ccd rather than a cmos sensor. They did 2 versions one normal and one low light. I don't think anyone makes a web cam with a ccd sensor any more. All sorts of things can be done to the old Phillips cam including fitting it with a larger sensor. There is also software about to extract raw and do a number of other things. Some other manufacturers also produced cameras based round the same ccd sensor but it's important to get model numbers correct for the low light versions. Could be that old xbox cameras used ccd sensors as well but while I was interested in the subject I never saw any mention of it.

...

The circumstellar disk shot was taken with a Philips ToUcam Pro with ICX098BQ CCD chip, but I think the camera had been extensively modified with cooling and probably new electronics. I haven't seen any other amateur image of circumstellar disk of another star, so it just shows skills counts much more than equipment when it comes to astronomy.

[DoctorD]

Hi Bogdog

Have you seen these:

http://m.aliexpress.com/item/583938938.html?tracelog=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail

Similar to the Samsung SDC435 and SCB2000 - capable of 10 second integration and uses the Sony exview chip.

At £50 worth a go?

Have a look at the Video Astronomy section under Science to see what these are capable of.

HTH

Paul

[Ajohn]

The circumstellar disk shot was taken with a Philips ToUcam Pro with ICX098BQ CCD chip, but I think the camera had been extensively modified with cooling and probably new electronics. I haven't seen any other amateur image of circumstellar disk of another star, so it just shows skills counts much more than equipment when it comes to astronomy.

There are a large variety of Philips web cam mods. The best link I had which was from some one in the uk now seems to be dead,. A search bought up a cosmic shed blog. That rings a bell. The pages covering several mods. From memory various mods were numbered sc1, sc2 and so on. That may help find details on the web. It also had a link to a German company that would sell one off sony CCD sensors. Price wise and some years ago a larger black and white very sensitive ccd chip cost was about £20. I believe there is also a more sensitive direct replacement sensor but the low light cameras have sensitivities of <1 lux. There seems to be plenty of info still kicking around on long exposure mods etc.

I may have already mentioned the Tucsen 3mp microscope camera. I sold mine for something better and it isn't. I know from using it on a microscope that it's more sensitive than my eyes. It uses a modern cmos 1/2 in technical camera sensor. Unless it's changed the software allows direct access to colour channel and chip gain and these really do have to be used for good results. They also do cooled ccd camera that are capable and much cheaper than some others.

John

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