CCD opticstar ds-616c xl

[joramusa]

Has anyone experience with this cámera?

Thanks

José

[riklaunim]

QHY8L with the same CCD would be a safer choice (real 16-bit camera, more users...)

[Dom543]

I was about to ask the same question about the Opticstar ds-616c xl.

Since Opticstar is based im Manchester UK, I was hoping that, if anywhere, I could locate users of this camera on these forums.

The first ten pages of a google search in the US list only three URL's that are not opticstar.com. Oceanside Photo and Woodside Camera list the opticstar ds-616c xl on their retail pages. But inquiries about actual availability yield the answer that "We are eagerly awaiting this camera". Farpoint Astro, which is the third outfit listing the camera replies that "We no longer carry this item".

So one is wondering, if this is a real camera that anyone is using. Or just a pre-announcement that may or may not ever become reality.

Any further insight would be appreciated.

--Dom

[riklaunim]

Opticstar brands Tucsen cameras - http://tucsen.com and adds some software support. They aren't very popular in general. Some people did try Opticstar cameras in the past and the results were mixed Note that the cameras itself are usually 12-bit laboratory cameras.

[Dom543]

Thank you riklaunim!

I am still at the early stages of the learning curve. It would be helpful to me, if you or someone else pointed out what is wrong with the following argumments.

1. Lab cameras are made in large production series and can hence be made available at economical prices.

2. 12 bit means less color depth than 16 bit but, on the other hand, allows faster downloads.

3. Why do we need all that ultimate color depth in asto imaging? There is more "color cheating" happening as a result of the use of filters and of deliberate shifting of color balance during processing.

Thanks,

--Dom

[r3i]

It was advertised as 'coming soon' on their website for a couple of years and has only recently become available for purchase, so possibly there are not many owners as yet.

[riklaunim]

1. You can get QHY8L for 899, while Opticstar camera is 999 GBP. Even if the DS camera would be bit more expensive - it's a lot of money and it's important to get a good product for it. Unknown camera is a risk - when it breaks, when it doesn't work as good as standard/proven cameras etc.

Usually "laboratory" or "scientific" cameras cost more than DS cameras as fast electronics are more demanding and more expensive to make. Also fast electronics isn't optimized for lowest noise like "slow" electronics in DS cameras.

2/3. 12-bit camera will be more optimized for shorter exposures with higher gain. That may give more noisy images, or problems when there is something very bright in the camera FOV (like Alnitak when imaging Horse Head).

Also their cameras description is a bit "cheesy" like with the higher gain increasing sensitivity or S/N ratio (while gain - a multiplier just multiplies everything and doesn't increase S/N ratio or sensitivity). The cameras will work, but at such prices every detail has a meaning It would be much better if camera-makers or in this case camera-sellers would allow experienced astrophotographers to test, review and evaluate new cameras.

[Dom543]

Thank you Piotr / riklaunim !

Your insights are very helpful. The pieces now start to fall in place.

My interest in the Opticsar DS-616C XL was motivated by the fact that the same Tucsen TCC-6.1ICE camera is used as the starting point for the new Mallincam Universe. According to posts by Rock Mallin, his design transforms the base lab camera to a spacialized astronomy device through the following three main contributions.

1. Replaces the standard ICX413AQ sensor by a hard to get laboratory grade version that has fewer defects (Class 0), higher sensitivity (1250mV) and can be chilled more aggressively (-45C) to generate less noise.

2. Replaces the stock amplifier of the lab camera with his own low noise and high gain "hyper circuitry", adapted from his Mallincam video cameras.

3. Boundles the camera with a self-contained control and capture software designed and developed specifically for the astonomical use of the Mallincam Universe. A feature of the software is that it allows near live views of sufficiently bright objects.

Based on what you Piotr said, it seems that the low noise high speed electronics is really one of the crucial elements that is needed to make the difference between a lab and an astro camera. Of course, all the nice things come at a price. The US introductory price of the Mallincam Universe is $1900. For comparison, the US list price of the Opticstar DS is $1300, the QHY8L is $1300 and the QHY8pro is $2100.

As far as I know, about 20 MC Universes have been delivered to date and perhaps another 30-50 will be made before the end of the year. Many of the cameras from the initial batch went to devout users of the Mallincam video cameras, who want to use their Universes as the tool of entry into serious CCD astrophotography. Since most of these buyers are novices to AP, it will take a time until the MC Universe can be evaluated based on images made by experienced astrophotographers.

I am neither a secret salesman nor an agent of a competitor of the Mallincam Universe. I am only listing the above facts for the information of other readers of this thread. I don't want to hijack the thread but it seemed that this info may be of interest to those, who are looking at the Opticstar DS.

Thanks again for all the input this far.

--Dom

[riklaunim]

Video cameras are yet another different type of cameras. They are more like live DS viewing than imaging, but from what I see that Mallincam works like the original camera - on long exposures and not as TV/Video camera.

[norcalastroguy]

When you look at what the 616 provides, keep in mind that the supporting software and plug ins are equal to the 616 ( nebulosity should be the first clue, what an awesome program! ) ...Woodland Hills camera, OPT, Camera Bug, Canadian telescope, adorama and telescope dot com are all US dealers of Opticstar...Lastly, www.opticstarnorthamerica.com is the new distributor of OS in North America, The Charlie Bates Solar astronomy peeps are also big fans of Opticstar cameras especially for Solar and Planetary imaging... OS North America has a ton of video presentations on Youtube, love the visuals displayed and music!