The classic what scope question - help please!

[earth titan]

Errrrrr... Here in lies another set of issues.

You can mount a camera to most scopes, as long as you have the right adaptors. Some don't have enough back focus though and some people have bought a scope only to find they can't focus. This is rare though.

Most important is that the scope will take a 2" adaptor as this means less vignetting.

Consider an 80mm refractor (semi APO) for the budget you are on and them get a reasonable mount.

Typed by me, using fumms...

Dang nabbit... beaten to it by others. That's what comes from typing on a phone :-)

Typed by me, using fumms...

[onesmallstep]

Hi

The August 2012 issue of Sky At Night magazine has an article on astrophotography covering DSLR, webcam and CCD setups. Get yourself a back issue and read up on the advice before making any firm commitment money-wise.

http://www.skyatnightmagazine.com/

HTH!

[themos]

If my mount wasn't up to the task I would just reduce exposure time and combine more frames. Yes, I would need more time in order to achieve the results from a better mount but I could at least do it. There's no amount of time I can spend to correct chromatic aberration, field curvature, coma, astigmatism and what not from bad optics.

[Combat squirrel]

Well for a 1st scope im going to get a:

SkyWatcher EXPLORER-150P + EQ3 PRO SynScan GOTO

I hear the 'decent' mounts start at around an EQ5 GOTO, is this valid? is it that much better than the above? In an ideal world id get the 200P scope with EQ5 PRO GOTO,

Any input? Am I barking up the totally wrong tree here? I want to use it to get some good basic shots, and learn the craft then if I fancy, move onto some silly stuff.

[malc-c]

Well for a 1st scope im going to get a:

SkyWatcher EXPLORER-150P + EQ3 PRO SynScan GOTO

I hear the 'decent' mounts start at around an EQ5 GOTO, is this valid? is it that much better than the above? In an ideal world id get the 200P scope with EQ5 PRO GOTO,

Any input? Am I barking up the totally wrong tree here? I want to use it to get some good basic shots, and learn the craft then if I fancy, move onto some silly stuff.

I started with the 200P on an EQ5 goto... It's a good combination for visual use. Providing you don't own one of those smart cars you it's transportable to dark sites if you live under a light polluted town sky. But it's right on the weight limit for the EQ5. You'll get decent shots of the moon using a dslr, and using web cams, it's possible to get some really nice images of the brighter planets. IMO it falls down for any serious long exposure imaging as the mount isn't up to the additional weight of a decent guidescope and camera, and lacks the tracking ability that the HEQ5 (and EQ6) has to offer. Having said that there are people (Quatermass) on here who have perfected the auto-guiding using the 200p EQ5 combo.... but it's been a lot of pain to get there... but his results have surprised us all.

Personally, having gone down that route I speak from experience.... The HEQ5 is the minimum mount for the 200P if you want to image with it, and to be honest, with the setup I have, I'm pushing the mount to its stability limit and I don't have the 800+g of a 5D hanging off the side of the tube. Don't get me wrong, my rig (when I sort out the colimation... but that's another story) performs really well, tracks well and in is starting to give me some excellent results. This combo is well proven. IMO if you opt for the EQ5 / 200P combo you will soon be wishing you had listen to the majority of those who have posted here and paid that little bit more for the HEQ5.

[malc-c]

Well for a 1st scope im going to get a:

SkyWatcher EXPLORER-150P + EQ3 PRO SynScan GOTO

Now if you are opting for the 150P - sticking that on an EQ5 will give a very solid platform. The 200P has around 77% more light gathering power.... that's more photons hitting that CCD sensor...

The 150P on an EQ3 will have the same issues as the 200P on an EQ5 in terms of stability.

[ollypenrice]

Except me! I say Optics first.

You can do something about the violence a bad camera or a bad mount do to your image but you cannot untangle photons that have ended up in the wrong place.

Well, hey-ho, we disagree. Lots of things will put the photons in the wrong place and first amongst the likely candidates is the mount, I'd say. If it smears them east and west you are up a gum tree.

I put optics last because, if you look at amateur astrophotos of twenty years ago, you will see that modern images are generally much better. What has changed the most, optics, cameras or mounts? Very clearly it is the cameras that have changed the most and these lie behind the transformation in amateur image quality.

Make no mistake, I like my premium glass, but if I had to swap our Tak 85 for an ED80 or our our Atik 4000 CCD for a DSLR I would take the ED80 and keep the Atik. Dropping to the ED80 would be a small hit by comparison.

If your mount can't stay sub pixel where are you? SLiding one layer over another in Photoshop? Nooooo!!!!! (Not that I haven't done, he whispers quietly.)

Olly

[Combat squirrel]

I started with the 200P on an EQ5 goto... It's a good combination for visual use. Providing you don't own one of those smart cars you it's transportable to dark sites if you live under a light polluted town sky. But it's right on the weight limit for the EQ5. You'll get decent shots of the moon using a dslr, and using web cams, it's possible to get some really nice images of the brighter planets. IMO it falls down for any serious long exposure imaging as the mount isn't up to the additional weight of a decent guidescope and camera, and lacks the tracking ability that the HEQ5 (and EQ6) has to offer. Having said that there are people (Quatermass) on here who have perfected the auto-guiding using the 200p EQ5 combo.... but it's been a lot of pain to get there... but his results have surprised us all.

Personally, having gone down that route I speak from experience.... The HEQ5 is the minimum mount for the 200P if you want to image with it, and to be honest, with the setup I have, I'm pushing the mount to its stability limit and I don't have the 800+g of a 5D hanging off the side of the tube. Don't get me wrong, my rig (when I sort out the colimation... but that's another story) performs really well, tracks well and in is starting to give me some excellent results. This combo is well proven. IMO if you opt for the EQ5 / 200P combo you will soon be wishing you had listen to the majority of those who have posted here and paid that little bit more for the HEQ5.

I see thank you, so the EQ3 etc is a complete no go?

I have been thinking alot about asking on this forum, and dont get me wrong you guys know ALOT, and big up respect, but from an semi pro perspective, what im asking is below peoples here standards, in a way, know, to much...does that make sense?

Im trying to filter out, excuse the pun, semi-pro expectations of 'what is good' and what can, for example an EQ3 + 150p actually do, of course, it is below the serious hobbiest, I totally understand, however, im sure it would return, SOME images, it wont just not produce any form of focused light on the camera sensor... would it ?!

Its also been an enjoyable experience pondering this, as, normally people come to me on tech advice, as said, usually cameras and PC's, and now I know what it feels like to be on the other end of the stick! lol, its also made me distinctly aware that 'oh god you need a 'intel i7 at 5ghz MINIMUM' is also not true........an i5 at 3ghz will do a fine job.

If that sorta make sense :S :/ , as said im not dismissing at all whats been told to me, I have taken it all on board, but I must stick to around £500-600 - I cannot budge on this, but so far everyone is saying, NO save your money, DONT buy ANYTHING, surely that is not true?

ALSO *worries*, a normal 5D mk2 will still take some nice images... right ? it wont just blot everything out ?

If the scope works , I have a 20D i will remove the IR filter from. - why are 'proper' astro tog digital sensors so much better? They look like they have tiny sensors....this makes no sense to me

[Combat squirrel]

^aside from im aware they will have no filters and also see the correct astro-tog spectrum

[Chris]

Hhhmm I can vouch for the 150p being a good dual purpose scope, you can easily attach a camera to it with the correct T-ring and theres enough travel on the focuser to actually achieve focus. Its f/5 so sucks the photons in which means you can get away with less exposure time, its also pretty good for visual work as well. However, I think the above setup would be pushing it for visual on a windy night net alone long exposure astro imaging, don't get me wrong it can be done to some degree by a determined few but you'll have a much easier time if you can get the sturdiest mount you can affored. I think even unguided, by the time you've hung you camera off the 150p it will be too much for the ali tripod and small head of the EQ3 pro. I think the EQ3 pro would be good with just your camera and a 200mm lens though.

The general consensus is that the HEQ5 pro is the minimum for serious imaging and you would have a much smoother journey into imaging with this mount or above, but it does depend on what results you would be happy with, I would love a HEQ5 pro myself but having said this I'm still happy with my non pro mk1 HEQ5 which you can pick up for 250-300 pounds second hand if you keep you eyes peeled on astrobuyandsell. My scope and mount together cost something like 420 pounds second hand which is way on the cheapo side for imaging, as said above I have achieved results I'm happy with (for now) by intergrating more subs at less exposure time e.g. 160x2 minute subs, the downside to this is that longer subs give more signal compared to shorter subs per unit time, so another question is do you want to spend the extra time required by a lesser mount when clear skies are so infrequent? I started out imaging with an eq5 with basic motors and didn't find it at all easy!, I was very pleased when I upgraded.

hth

Chris

[malc-c]

I hear what you are saying, but let me try and put it in a perspective using one of your analogies. Whilst the i5 will do... there could well be an application where you connect an accessory which whilst it will run on an i5 could really perform optimally on an i7. In other words you will get results using a 150P on an eq3 and your 5D.... but (IMO) you will be slightly handicapped and have to work harder to get the results that your really want. It is a steep learning curve, and I started using the 200P visually, but then wanted to take images. My Olympus was poor at imaging (hot pixels) so after borrowing a 300D I had a taste of what was possible, but I soon found I needed longer exposures, and the tracking resolution of an un-guided EQ5 limited what I could expose for. There was no way forward other than to upgrade the mount to an HEQ5 so that guided exposures were possible, with out causing too much anguish.

Look through all similar posts on this sort of subject.. one thing is certain, if you venture into imaging then expect to pay a lot of money.... Don't rush in to this. IMO £600 won't get you into imaging. Yes it will but you a nice scope on a driven mount, and yes you will be able to do something with web / dslr, but nothing substantial. It's like me taking a picture with my Olympus 500 and standard lens, and then wondering why I don't get the same sharpness and colour depth as one of your images taken with the 5D and an L series lens.... My camera cost me £250... yours probably cost 10x that.... My point being that whilst we both get results, yours will outshine anything I take....

At the end of the day it's your cash. We can all give our reasons why / what we would do.... but it's your life and your money. on the flip side.... you could save up another grand, get an EQ6 / 200P / ST80 / QHY5 setup and then find you don't have the time or inclination to use it every time teh sky is dark and clear... it then ends up gathering dust and you wish you hadn't of tied up so much cash and opted for that 150P on and EQ5 !! - bottom line is it's your call.

[themos]

Olly, yes, cameras have improved a lot and inexpensive chinese mounts have appeared. That's why the bottleneck now is the optics! Maybe it's because I've spent much more money on mounts and cameras than optics that I feel like that.

Squirrel, have a look at these 2 threads:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/140123-budget-dso-showcase/

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/140691-mostly-modest-setups-dso-showcase/

[Combat squirrel]

Hmm im still undecided! lol

Im now thinking of a 250 pds with any cheap tripod, for the time being, so I can use it to do some observational astronomy, and also shots of the moon (bright enough for quick exposures)

And then saving loads of money at getting a HEQ5 or EQ6 GOTO later on....

[Combat squirrel]

Or maybe I should just bite the bullet and get:

SkyWatcher EXPLORER-200P HEQ5

[66mikeg]

By buying a second hand mount on fleabay I managed to get the equipment in my signature for around £700, for my money this is a good all round set up for observation, it isn't (hopefully) a cul de sac if I want to dip my toe in the murky waters of imaging at a later date, although some would query the choice of telescope. I am able to use a web cam now, or at least when the clouds go away and as you already have a DSLR at least you would be able to begin right away with some shorter exposures. The other alternative that I was looking at is a second hand 8 inch Schmidt Cassegrain which very often crop up for around £700 and are easier to get imaging attachments for, if they aren't included in the deal you need to get one with an equatorial wedge for imaging though..

[Combat squirrel]

Yeah I have been looking on the bay, nothing available really right now, also the uk astronomy second hand stuff site is pants, it doesn't work properly, at all, its very outdated, no matter what I search for in I.E., firefox or chrome the same 8 results appear, clearly the site is broken and it desperately needs bringing upto date.

[Chris]

I've just had a quick look on Astrobuyandsell and theres a second hand HEQ5 pro, its the black HEQ5 like mine which has then had the 300 pound pro upgrade this year so most of the important stuff will be pretty new on it.

Your in North wales right, the mounts in Worcester which doesn't look too far away on Google maps.

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=59880

The guy says he's open to offers also so it would probably leave enough left over with you budget to get a cheap scope to stick on it.

hth

Chris

[Combat squirrel]

Good stuff thanks, I wonder why I cannot search for stuff aggh,lol

[pvaz]

I have been thinking alot about asking on this forum, and dont get me wrong you guys know ALOT, and big up respect, but from an semi pro perspective, what im asking is below peoples here standards, in a way, know, to much...does that make sense?

The HEQ5 is not in anyway a semi-pro mount. I would say it's more a decent amateur mount, for people that wan't to start imaging without having all their pictures blured due to innacurate tracking.

What I mean people are actually pointing you to the cheapest equipment capable of doing some decent astroimaging. There are dedicated CCD cameras, better mounts and APO refractors for better results with less hassles.

[Chris]

I know the site owners just blocked spanish IP addresses due to persistant scammers from Spain (or possibly making it look like there from Spain with a proxy server thingy), I don't think he's extended this to Wales though? its a bit curious why you're having trouble, computers arn't my thing unfortunately so I can't be much help on this one:(

although:

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/

what happens when you click on the yellow tab at the top labelled "view all current adverts" ??

[pvaz]

Just noticed the typos on my last post..... where did the Edit button go?! Now I actually have to read what I write before posting...

[Chris]

Squirrel, have a look at these 2 threads:

http://stargazerslou...t-dso-showcase/

http://stargazerslou...s-dso-showcase/

ah well done themos! the old imaging on a budget thread, not seen this in a while, might try and resurrect it a bit by adding some newer stuff, hopefully others will do too:)

[malc-c]

Im now thinking of a 250 pds with any cheap tripod,

This now feels like a trolling thread.... ??

Are you serious, after all the effort, time and advice we've all given you.....

A 250P will require an EQ6 minimum for imaging, or HEQ5 for visual.... I've already commented on the fact that a 200P needs an HEQ5 for imaging and is on the limit for an EQ5, and you want to go for a bigger scope !! - I certainly wouldn't want to put a 250P on an EQ5 and EQ5 goto is not what I would call cheap at around £520.

[Combat squirrel]

This now feels like a trolling thread.... ??

Are you serious, after all the effort, time and advice we've all given you.....

A 250P will require an EQ6 minimum for imaging, or HEQ5 for visual.... I've already commented on the fact that a 200P needs an HEQ5 for imaging and is on the limit for an EQ5, and you want to go for a bigger scope !! - I certainly wouldn't want to put a 250P on an EQ5 and EQ5 goto is not what I would call cheap at around £520.

I didnt say that ?!?!!!?!

In CONTEXT I said, ill get the good scope for OBSERVATIONAL astronomy with 'any old tripod' (just for viewing) and THEN get a HEQ5 or EQ6 after I have saved up some money to do astrophotography.

Hence I have taken the advice on board, ill use the scope for learning its techniques and exploring my way around the sky, and then get the good mount for astrophotography, hows is that trolling ?

[Combat squirrel]

Also in your opinion its now EQ6 is the 'minimum' when alot of others have said 'HEQ5' ... mine field ! lol