Language the lie, Math the truth

[Earl]

To misquote Lawrence Krauss, but he says something along the line of. When I describe something in words its a lie the mathematical explanation is the truth.

Its interesting, language is subjective, interpretive and is not very good at precise communication of idea, where as Mathematics is the opposite, this is how I see the above point.

However.

Mathematics is a human invention, so surely does it not also have the flaws? are the Laws of physics, just human mathematical interpretation of something else?

[sonic190178]

hi the way i see it maths it is only as accurate as the figures you use !

one wrong figure and the sum wrong

[George Jones]

To misquote Lawrence Krauss, but he says something along the line of. When I describe something in words its a lie the mathematical explanation is the truth.

Its interesting, language is subjective, interpretive and is not very good at precise communication of idea, where as Mathematics is the opposite, this is how I see the above point.

For more on the necessity of using mathematics in physics, watch the second lecture in Feynman's Messenger Series,

http://research.micr...-9c0ea0cbc45f||

Better yet, read the chapter in Feynman's book based on the lectures, The Character of Physical Law,

http://www.amazon.co...racter physical

However.

Mathematics is a human invention

Some, but not all, mathematicians agrees with this. For example, the great English mathematician G.H. Hardy wrote

"... and there is no sort of agreement about the nature of mathematical reality among either mathematicians or philosophers. Some hold that it is 'mental' and that in some sense we construct it, others that it is outside and independent of us ... I believe that mathematical reality lies outside of us, that our function is to discover or observe it, and that the theorems which we prove, and which we describe grandiloquently as our 'creations', are simply our notes of our observations."

[Earl]

That last quote is very helpful George thanks.

[DirkSteele]

Having studied Physics and Maths to quite a high level, I am of the opinion that it is innate to the universe (given it is ability to precisely describe physical phenomena) and as the quote above states, "there for us to discover."

[Alastair Rae]

There's a big difference between pure and applied maths. Pure mathematical constructs are abstract truths built up from simple axioms. Applied maths attempts to model the real world and that's where philosophers can stick their oar in about the nature of "reality".

[Capricorn]

Fine as long as the Maths is correct.

Einsteins cosmological constant has been in then out and now back in to relativity, for different reasons and I assume different values.

[cantab]

I would suggest that if Lawrence Krauss cannot describe scientific ideas in language without considering it a "lie", the problem lies with Lawrence Krauss.

Of course mathematics is hugely, hugely important in physics, but maths alone is not physics. There have to be concepts to go with the maths.

[DirkSteele]

Fine as long as the Maths is correct.

Einsteins cosmological constant has been in then out and now back in to relativity, for different reasons and I assume different values.

The cosmological constant has nothing to do with the actually underlying maths (tensor algebra etc) being right or wrong. The mathematics of general relativity did not change. What he did was add another term to the equations to describe a stationary universe. At the time no one knew of expansion until Hubble and his work on red shift. The mistake was human assumption/error....Or not as the case may now be with Dark Energy.

[George Jones]

I would suggest that if Lawrence Krauss cannot describe scientific ideas in language without considering it a "lie", the problem lies with Lawrence Krauss.

Of course mathematics is hugely, hugely important in physics, but maths alone is not physics. There have to be concepts to go with the maths.

I stongly agree that mathematics is not sufficient for physics, but I am also strongly of the opinion that mathematics is necessary for physics.