Orion Optics VX or CT for beginner

[richarddownunder]

Hi All

My very first post:hello2:!! I've recently become quite enthusiastic about star gazing and after spending a few happy hours looking through binoculars feel I'd like to buy a telescope. After reading a few reviews I had set my sights on an Orion Optics 8 inch VX Newtonian - or maybe even the more expensive CT with a shiny black carbon fibre tube (50th birthday present so felt I deserved a shiny black tube:icon_eek:). I was then a bit shocked to come across a few posts on this site relating to disappointment in the quality of OO telescopes - especially comments that components in some scopes didn't even look like the stuff on their web site with respect to machining quality etc - comments about "looked like it was bought of e-bay" etc. These posts were made in 2008 and I suspect (hope) don't relate to the current scopes they produce which the reviews say are the bees knees. As I live in new Zealand, buying a scope that has to be returned is rather an expensive exercise so I'd like to be sure of what I'm buying.

Would anyone out there be willing to share their impressions of OO scopes bought recently please? More the build quality, are they as advertised on their site etc as I'm assuming that their optics are good - I don't think that has really ever been disputed. I suppose, bluntly, has the quality control improved and can I be confident forking out for one of their scopes. Also, is the CT version worth the extra money?

Thanks

[E621Keith]

Welcome to SGL

Is there any reason why you are not considering the Chinese scopes. They may not be optically as good as the Orion, but I doubt most beginner will be able to tell. Furthermore, they have dealers in Australia and New Zealand who can provide local support if anything go wrong.

For the price of a VX8 on dob mount, you can get a Skywatcher Flexitube 300p or a 12 inch Meade Lightbridge.

[richarddownunder]

Hi Keith

Thanks for the reply. Quite right too, the Chinese option would be far easier and may end up being the sensible solution at this end of the globe. I suppose I have more of a philosophical issue with doing this and would prefer to support companies that don't go the Far East route (as in many places, NZ companes have laid local folk off to make bigger profits manufacturing in China - or is it consumers won't pay a bit more for locally-made? Anyway, whether its right or wrong, thats my stance. Yes I realise UK isn't local, but I'm a Pom at heart!. Yes, I also realise its a bit futile). I don't mind paying more for that but only if the goods are well made, hence the question. Good point about local service of the goods as well - there are no OO reps in this hemishphere.

If they are really not up to scratch, I'll have to buy a Chinese one or another option is to get a mirror ground locally and I can make the tube, but that might be a somewhat longer term project.

Hope that isn't considered a rant:(!

Cheers

Richard

[E621Keith]

Thanks for supporting UK manufacturing. I am sure you have come to the right place for long term reviews of Orion Optics scopes.

I don't own any Orion's scope so I will let others comment on their long term durability. The ones I've seen appeared to be well built.

Do have a look in the review forum. There are some OO reviews there

http://stargazerslounge.com/member-equipment-reviews/69570-orion-optics-spx200-ota-review.html

[Hobbes]

I have a second hand OO Europa 8" Newt which I picked up last year. I'm not sure of its age but I'm very happy with it although I have upgraded the finder and focuser now. The views through it are fabulous. It's also nice and light

[richarddownunder]

Thanks for the replies and thanks for the link. That review is very encouraging, quite a contrast to some of the other slightly earlier posts.

[jfox61]

I have a 10" Europa, basically the forerunnner to the VX series. Before me it was owned by my Brother in Law. I have to say It is a nce piece of gear but I echo the comments above and get a new focuser and finder. Tse spider is 2 vane and quite thick but I don't think it affects the amount of light the tube sucks in.

[John]

I have a 10" Europa Deluxe F/4.8 which was made in 2007. It's optics are the same quality as the standard VX model and seem pretty good to me. The tube is light but rather thin walled. The other mechanicals are OK but no better than the Chinese equivalents. The single speed crayford focuser is adequate but not particularly smooth. Overall I'm happy with the scope, particularly the optics because I paid less than half the new price for it. If I had paid the full new price then I would be a bit disappointed in the quality of build, optics aside.

I've not seen a VX or CT "in the flesh" but, from the pictures, it looks like OO have upped their game with those on the mechanicals side of things.

[richarddownunder]

I guess I am anxious not to go through this (although it did have a happy outcome):

http://stargazerslounge.com/astro-lounge/67892-impatience-poor-service.html

On the other hand this review gives a glowing report of the CT - I have seen absolutely nothing in terms of reviews on the VX and no posts on either (good or bad) but, they do seem to have lifted their game (that is my hope),

http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/Resources/CTreview1a.pdf

I guess this picture really made me cringe as I could do a lot better in my shed. I hope I'm allowed to cut and paste this, if its a no-no, my apologies.

[John]

...I guess this picture really made me cringe as I could do a lot better in my shed....

That's what the mount dovetail looked like on my Orion Optics scope . needless to say I've replaced it and the tube rings with better quality ones.

I've read reports of less than good service from OO and scopes being delivered in unsatisfactory condition too but there must be many more satisfied customers who we don't hear from of course.

Is a used one an option for you ? - someone else would have taken the above risks then

[jfox61]

Mine looks nothing like that. Produced in 2008, my Europa seems to be on a par with a lot of the Chinese scopes, but with the advantage of the superior optics.

All parts on it are OO own makes and never needed changing. I am not saying they are the best, as there are Custom built focusers costing more than some scopes.

The OO focuser is cast and not machined so does look a little rougher round the edges and a new one would make my scope look prettier. However it works, and works well, so I won't upgrade for the looks alone.

Again, as for the dovetail, it is cast and not machined, but again is well cast and serviceable.

The same goes for the mounting rings, and again a good fit.

The only thing I know that was altered when my Brother in Law purchased this tube orignially, was the interior of the tube. He wasn't too happy with the finish, so he bought some special paint and painted the interior of the tube himself. I have to say it does look good but I don't know what it was like originally.

All in all, I have to say I am very happy with it and can't really fault it

[richarddownunder]

Thanks for the feedback. If I have read them all right, the comments, both good and bad, all relate to older models that have been discontinued, e.g. Europa. I don't think it would be easy to get a second-hand OO scope here although plenty of other scopes come up for sale.

I haven't seen much published on their current range at all.

From the photos on their web site Orion Optics now appear to me (but I could be wrong!) to be machining dovetails (below) and other components and produce the CT version with a carbon fibre tube etc. So, the question really is, has the game changed. Do they make the mechanics of their new range to match their optics. I'd also be interested to know if the CT version is considered worth the money. I intend (at this stage) hanging on to the scope for years.

In any case, I had a great time with my binoculars for a couple of hours last night. It was the clearest its been for ages.

Cheers

Richard

[foundaplanet]

Hello Richarddownunder,

I have a CT10. It is a very good scope for sure.

The tube is good and it comes with a fine pair of tube rings and a decent dovetail plate. The dovetail is okay but I would have liked to see it made 2mm thicker but that is of no real importance, it works.

The spider is nicely done but the machine screws into the secondary are of poor quality and I would recommend changing these to stainless steel as the originals drop burs easily. You do not want these burs landing on your very expensive 1/10 wave mirror .

The standard issue machined focuser it comes with is okay but they should supply with basic order of instuction to set this up properly as it is a bit poor until you get it right, then it is okay and it serves its purpose. If you was getting seriously into AP you would need a better focuser. Should you decide to order one I have since found out they will put on whichever focuser you like e.g. moonlite or Baarder etc.

I had a bit of a problem with mine the first few times out as I could not quite pull it into collimation without signs of pinched optics. I finally took the mirror cell out and found that one of the allen/grub screws had not been tapped out correctly. This I fixed with a tap n die. I doubt this happens very often but with good q.c it should not happen as there is not really that much to get wrong in the build of a newt and most people with basic skills could put one together. Still I can forgive them because it was such a simple mistake it's laughable . The mirror cell is I would say very well done (mine is now to).

Overall it is a cracking piece of kit with superb optics.

They need to work on their telephone manners and have more pride and less ego if they really want to be one of the best.

Would I buy another one? Yes, because they are nice when they are right.

Hope this is useful to you.

[richarddownunder]

Hi Foundaplanet

Very useful comments thanks. Glad to hear you like our scope, although its a bit surprising that you had the grub screw problem and I'd have been a more than a bit disappointed to have had to tap out a screw hole on a new and expensive instrument. I wouldn't, by way of comparison, expect to have to drill out screw holes on my new camera. As you say, there isn't that much to a newtonian telescope in terms of number of components, so it should be an easy job to check that it is right before dispatch. Did you feed back about the screws holding the secondary mirror? Such an easy thing for them to change!

Thanks again for your comments.

Richard

[foundaplanet]

I spoke to them as mentioned in last post. As said, more pride less ego. It would have been nice if the boss had called me back to apologise.

You know your right. I would not expect to have to drill out my camera either.

These are the pics. The two on the left hand side show the offending thread and the limiting adjustment because of it.

The daft thing was I thought it was my collimating skills as I just did not want to believe that such an expensive piece of gear would have such a childish build error on it.

[rocketandroll]

Just to chip in....

I got a VX8L last December... with 1/10PV optics and the dual speed focuser upgrade.

I have to admit, I can't give much of a comment on the optical quality yet as I managed to nearly total the scope and damage the focuser when it broke off my mount and hit a concrete floor as I was aligning it for first light... but mechanically it seems a very nice piece of kit.

The focuser is machined from solid ali billet and looks very nice, the tube is fairly sturdy, the rear cell looks equally well machhined and so far I've had no real complaints.

Their customer service hasn't been too bad that I've found.... getting useful info out of them and getting a response is a little difficult, but I get the impression that's due to them being fairly busy.

They recently took my whole scope back, fixed the focuser and sorted out all the optical problems that had resulted from the accident and returned the scope to me about a week later for little more than the cost of the courier delivery.

I'm planning to write a review on the scope once I've had a proper first light on it.... mean time, this is a pic I took of M42 whilst it had an out-of-alignment focuser and was slightly out of focus and out of collimation:

My experience with them and their products so far hasn't changed my ultimate aim of getting an AG12 once I have a proper home observatory set up.

Ben

[foundaplanet]

I'd go for the 20" dob myself .

If the OP wants an OO I'd tell him to go and get one.

They make great pieces of equipment but as bespoke pieces at a premium price, every one should be perfect every time before it goes in its packing box. Every time.

[richarddownunder]

foundaplanet - I'd go for the 20" dob as well. I'd need to hire a container ship to get it here tho, it weighs 40 kg (and the family would go hungry for the rest of the year)!

Sad story about your VX8L Ben. I'd be gutted. The M42 pic looks great. If I could achieve that I'd be rather pleased with myself, but I'd probably need a better mount than the EQ5 I was thinking about. Orion is directly outside my dining room in the inky black north (away from town lights) - was gazing at it last night wishing I had a telescope!

Cheers

Richard

[BRENDAN]

Hi, While down at Astrofest I put in an order for VX12 L f5.3 OTA only (20% off) and picked it up at the factory site this morning (10 days later). This is my second 12inch reflector from Orion Optics, the first one I bought after university in 2002 as a treat but always regretted selling it via Astronomy now mag two years later. I've never had any issues with Orion Optics and their optics Oooze quality. While at the factory site I did have a nice tour of the factory by their sales guy and I'm very much appreciative they allowed me to do so. I work as a power station chemist and therefore more than keen to see the mechanical side of the optical process, all of which you would expect to see if you know a little about mirror making. I have to say they seemed extremely busy with 30 or so orders in just from Astrofest 2013. I certainly like Orion Optics and it appears they have many followers!

[richarddownunder]

Hi, While down at Astrofest I put in an order for VX12 L f5.3 OTA only (20% off) and picked it up at the factory site this morning (10 days later). This is my second 12inch reflector from Orion Optics, the first one I bought after university in 2002 as a treat but always regretted selling it via Astronomy now mag two years later. I've never had any issues with Orion Optics and their optics Oooze quality. While at the factory site I did have a nice tour of the factory by their sales guy and I'm very much appreciative they allowed me to do so. I work as a power station chemist and therefore more than keen to see the mechanical side of the optical process, all of which you would expect to see if you know a little about mirror making. I have to say they seemed extremely busy with 30 or so orders in just from Astrofest 2013. I certainly like Orion Optics and it appears they have many followers!

Hi Brandan

a belated thanks for your reply.  I did get a VX10 in the end - mid last year -  and am very happy with it, as I have posted elsewhere, nicely made and maintains stable collimation.  Couldn't really justify the extra for the CT version unfortunately.  Hope you are equally satisfied with your VX12.  Just need the clouds to clear.  The weather hasn't been obliging for the past 2 months here in NZ.

Cheers

Richard