200P or 200P FlexTube Auto ... Argh!

[It's Full Of Stars]

Hello,

First post, long time visitor ... I've learned so much from SGL, so I'd like to say a big 'Thanks' to everyone first : )

After a year favouring three different scopes for different reasons I've settled on the Skyliner 200P Dob. I'm now trying to work out if I should get the FlexTube Auto version.

I have a couple of kids, the oldest is 7 so I'm thinking the auto tracking might come in really handy. However, I really like the idea of just pushing a dob around manually with no power supply set up.

I heard that it's certainly possible, but I wondered if any 'auto' dob owners actually did this? I'm worried about wearing something out as it sounds like when you push them you're turning the cogs? Or is the auto version a bit too stiff to push manually, can you still make fine adjustments and track at high-ish mags (100-150x) with no power on?

I've decided against photography for now (again after reading lots of SGL threads), but I wondered if it might be possible to grab some short exposure photos (15-30 seconds) of DSOs using the auto's tracking. I just thought it might be fun to grab a blurry holiday snap of the things I find to go with my notes. Has anyone managed this with an auto dob?

Looking forward to finally ordering my first scope (I've been driving my wife a bit mad recently). I've been using 10x50 bins so far.

Thanks again,

George

[Telrad]

Hi George, I wouldn't worry about it. The motor is fine, I have an auto Dob and pushed that around when the batteries went flat, it did no harm to the motors. I understand your fear, they are very robust though IMHO.

I tend to manually push the Dob then fine tune it with the Auto.

[It's Full Of Stars]

Hi Telrad, thanks for the quick reply!

Sounds good ... can you actually hear the cogs burring away when pushing it btw? I believe one thread described it as a grinding kind of noise which is what got me worrying in the first place.

Can I ask how you found fine tuning & tracking with your scope manually? I've heard the autos take a bit more push to initially get the scope moving and wondered if constantly overshooting was a problem?

I guess if I go for the auto then using the controls will become the preferred method, it's just nice to know that you can use it like a classic dob too

Thanks again,

George

[Omega]

I've found the AUTO works very well in practice. Worth considering though that the solid tube generally holds collimation better and the OTA can be mounted to an EQ or other mount in the future.

[It's Full Of Stars]

Hi Omega,

Good points. I considered an EQ mounted scope for a long time (150P EQ3-2) but read so many threads about how expensive photography can be I've decided to stick to mostly visual for now (just some low exposure afocal shots if I can with the auto tracking?) ... maybe if I'd already owned an SLR I would have gone that route.

I was hoping to get away with a Cheshire collimator, but it sounds like a laser may be a wiser option. Just worried about having to collimate the collimator! I've heard the F6 nature of the 200P dob helps retain collimation though, maybe that counteracts the flextube effect a little?

Does the flextube reliably hold it's position when extended btw? I mean you don't need to collimate half way through a session because you pushed the scope by the top half? I'm guessing that when pushing, you'd do so using the bottom half of the scope?

Thanks : )

George

[spaceboy]

Solid tube every time IMO. No concerns of stray light, a lighter OTA, easier to balance and no expensive shrouds required after all ready spending a fortune on a scope that collapses. Then there is the possibility of using on a mount so all in all a solid OTA is more versatile.

[It's Full Of Stars]

Hi Spaceboy,

Yeah, I do like the solid one. That's my main reason for finding out if the auto version can behave like the classic. Not needing to use the buttons/power, but having them there for when the kids are around maybe.

I read a post on SGL where someone made their own shroud and dew shield using neoprene from a craft shop, so I'd go that route to save some money.

The recommended mount for the 200P for photography seems quite expensive (HEQ5 or something?), so I really am happy enough knowing that I'll never mount the flextube. Buying the mount, goto or motors, SLR and the other bits for decent photography would make the extra expense of an additional OTA not too bad ; ) A long way off for me I think.

I guess the auto would be a bit heavier but I am attracted to the fold up nature, so it'd stand a chance of getting in the boot for a holiday. We went somewhere nice and dark a few years back, milky way like I'd never seen it, so it's for that sort of occasion that the flextube appeals ... of course, that's only if the scope behaves like the classic 200P dob in other respects.

Can I ask what you mean by 'easier to balance'? Is that collimation or something else. I'm assuming you just stick the tube on the stand as with the classic dob?

Hmm, I seem to be defending the flextube choice ... interesting!

Thanks,

George

[Omega]

The AUTO can be used manually of course, but apparently the motion is less "smooth", though only fractionally according to people who have experienced both.

Spaceboy makes a good point in that with the flextube a shroud is pretty essential too.

An 8" Dob is still very transportable and storable without the flextube collapsibility. You would quite comfortably get it in the car.

I ordered the AUTO myself and then changed my mind, fortunately the retailer was able to accommodate my indecisiveness. I went for the solid tube and glad I did. It is far cheaper, and I can use that £ for some high quality eyepieces instead.

Like yourself, I changed telescope preference a million times, it is hard to satisfy every requirement on a beginners budget. For what's it's worth, its early days for me but I am very satisfied with the manual solid tube and have the luxury of upgrading mount at a later date if astrophotography becomes something I want to seriously pursue. So I highly recommend it.

Btw, the first thing I noticed when observing was that the finderscope with the 200P was very awkward to use. You may also want to budget for a decent reflex sight or right angle finder scope, just in case you experienced the same difficulty.

[spaceboy]

Can I ask what you mean by 'easier to balance'? Is that collimation or something else. I'm assuming you just stick the tube on the stand as with the classic dob?

When you add finders, EP's and red dot finders this makes the top of the scope heavy. From what comments I have read from other flex dob owners is that this offsets the balance more than it would in a solid tube. At some point the OTA will become nose heavy and to counter balance a flex dob is difficult as there is a much smaller portion of OTA to move your counter weight along. If you have a 2" EP weighing nose heavy looking at 20-30' and counter weight at the opposite end you will find once you start to point towards 60-70' the scope will become heavy on the counter weighted end and the OTA wants to point at zenith unless you move the counter weight closer towards the pivot point of the scope. This pivot point is restricted by design on a flex dob.

I hope this all makes sense as I'm hopeless at explaining things

[Telrad]

Omega, I agree with Spaceboy, it's a good idea to make some sort of counterweight for the dob, due to the weight of EPs, Telrad etc.. I use a magnet and box attached to the end of the dob, and have filled it with heavy objects to counterbalance. As for using it manually, it's never a problem. I haven't heard my motors or cogs sound like they are being put under stress because of it. As for going for a solid tube version, yes apparently they do hold their collimation more so than the flex tube, but collimation takes a few minutes with a cheshire or laser, so that's not a problem. Plus the flex tube is easier to store as the tube collapses down. You will need a light shroud IMO, and prehaps make a light shield - which doubles as a dew shield. I made mine from neoprene. All the best. I hope all this info help?

I certainly recommend the flex tube and am very happy with the performancxe of mine. Good luck!

[It's Full Of Stars]

Thanks for all the feedback!

It is far cheaper, and I can use that £ for some high quality eyepieces instead.

I've read about getting used to the supplied eyepieces before deciding what to buy ... I won't have a choice ; ) Also, is it true that the F6 is less fussy about EP's, so mid-range may be okay?

Like yourself, I changed telescope preference a million times, it is hard to satisfy every requirement on a beginners budget.

It's been a bit easier for me since I've ditched photography from the list ... although I'm still hoping someone with an auto will tell me it's possible to get something fuzzy out of afocal + tracking (DSO-wise I mean, can't wait to capture the moon) : )

the first thing I noticed when observing was that the finderscope with the 200P was very awkward to use

Yes, same for both models. It's on the 'in the future' list. I might just turn it sideways for now ; )

I hope this all makes sense as I'm hopeless at explaining things

Made perfect sense. I always assumed balancing was for when you added a heavy SLR on the end of a tube, so thanks for pointing that out.

you will find once you start to point towards 60-70' the scope will become heavy on the counter weighted end

When the extras are balanced, I'd assume you wouldn't need to re-balance based on the angle of the scope ... it'd be the same weight either end of the pivot regardless of angle?

Also, with it being the auto version would balancing be less critical as there are cogs instead of teflon (I have no idea of the mechanics behind the auto system). I'm assuming you wouldn't need to re-balance after swapping eyepieces (please no!)?

You would quite comfortably get it in the car.

For sure, but I was thinking more about the car with kids and a bit of luggage too. Definitely something to look into. I've tried looking for the various sizes/diameters but no luck so far. I found a picture of a collapsed dob in the boot of a hatchback, still assembled & standing upright ... that could be handy.

I made mine from neoprene.

Absolutely, I think everyone's making them from bits bought at the homecrafts site. Great to hear the cogs don't sound stressed when pushing too, nice to hear that direct from an owner.

Thanks everyone. Still not sure, but I am slightly leaning towards the auto at the moment. Kids + Tracking = Happy Kids.

[Omega]

. I've tried looking for the various sizes/diameters but no luck so far. I found a picture of a collapsed dob in the boot of a hatchback, still assembled & standing upright ... that could be handy.

All the key dimensions can be found here on the Official Skywatcher page. Hope this helps

Whichever model you get, you will be satisfied I'm sure.

[It's Full Of Stars]

Hi Omega,

I've just this second gone and done it! =D

I went with the flextube auto version after staying up till 2am stressing over it, then sleeping on it. I think in the end the thought of wishing I'd got the tracking and not having it (with the kids in mind) clinched it.

It's a bit more money, but I guess everything in astronomy is! Will use the supplied EPs till my birthday, so will have plenty of time to figure out what I need. Hopefully the scope will last a good long time.

Thanks for the dimensions link. The photo they have threw me a bit (half way through checking out too), the scope looked more like a 150, but I think it's because that version has a larger base. It also has a right angled finder scope! What are the chances they've only just upgraded the kit and I'll get one ... zero I guess : )

Not sure I trust their figures as the shipping weights are identical to the solid tube 200P and the base is an oblong, surely it'll be circular for the whole rotation thing to work!

Well, off to by a collimator (will go cheshire for now) and some neoprene ... thanks again everyone, will hopefully post something up soon about how I get on =D

George

[spaceboy]

Do you have a link to the one you have purchased. Congratulations on the new scope BTW.

[It's Full Of Stars]

Sure thing : Skyliner 200P FlexTube Auto

Good price, free shipping and a regulated power supply thrown in. I know it's not an ideal power solution, but the freebee means I don't have to spend more initially (gone past my budget). I queried the 2A rating and they assured me they actually send out a 3 or 4A supply. Will use a safety plug thing (can't remember what they're called) and make an enclosure for the power brick.

Congratulations on the new scope BTW

Thanks! First scope, can't wait. I may be out of my depth a little, but wanted to get something for DSO's that'll do me a good while. Hopefully I've got my aperture fever out of the way before buying ; )

[Telrad]

Thanks! First scope, can't wait. I may be out of my depth a little, but wanted to get something for DSO's that'll do me a good while.

Wow! That's a great first scope I had binos to start out with, few years later I then got a 114mm reflector.

I have the 10" Flex Auto, that I upgraded to Goto and it's brilliant, especially for DSOs. I hope you have many happy years of enjoyment with it. All you really need now are some decent EPs and a collimator for the future. I would get used to the Dob though first IMO.

Clear Skies!

[spaceboy]

Yes a collimator will have to be on the top of your most wanted list. A poorly collimated scope can really let the views down and using a flex dob it will most likely require collimating every time you use it. Here is Mel's collimation guide which explains it very well Astro Babys Guide to Collimation I've always found a Chesire most accurate although some feel lasers are OK but there is always the possibility the laser itself is not correctly collimated. You will be very impressed with the 200P Dob. I have the explorer 200P which is the slightly faster F/5.

[Telrad]

Yes, Mel's guide is really good, as is this one Collimating a Newtonian

Don't forget to offset also..

[It's Full Of Stars]

I had binos to start out with

Me too : ) Been using some cheap bresser 10x50's on a tripod for the last year on and off. Finally got round to searching out some DSO's and found M34, M43, M36-38 ... all fuzzy but still great to see after tracking them down : )

You will be very impressed with the 200P Dob.

I'm setting my expectations nice and low, so hopefully the views will impress. The scope ships next week from the skywatcher warehouse and takes 3-4 days, so I have a while to wait yet ... at least I can stop obsessing about what to get now.

Yes a collimator will have to be on the top of your most wanted list

Absolutely, I've read how scopes can be poorly collimated after postage. Just ordered a cheshire from FLO : )

Also grabbed the materials for a light shroud, dew shield and I'll probably make something to go around the gap between the two halves when collapsed ... £24.

possibility the laser itself is not correctly collimated

Can you buy a collimator collimator, and does it need to be collimated ; )

Yes, Mel's guide is really good

Ha, I must have read her guide three times this week ... a great guide which hopefully makes more sense when the bits are in front of me. Just need to source a 35mm canister.

Thanks,

George

[spaceboy]

Can you buy a collimator collimator, and does it need to be collimated ; )

How-to Collimate a Laser Collimator - How To

[It's Full Of Stars]

Aw, I'd assume there'd be some device available for £80 ; )

I went with a Cheshire in the end, but that's a great link ... I did wonder what I'd use to test a laser collimator as I don't have a vice or bits of tubing, but I do have plenty of bits of wood for some reason, so saved for later.

[Omega]

I have the Baader Laser Collimator (£50) and it was collimated perfectly, it is also a doddle to collimate your scope with. I can't speak for the Cheshire as I've never used it.

[GeorgeH]

Looking forward to hearing how you get on, nice choice. I have just been on the phone to my local shop to order my Dob half an hour ago and was told to call back tomorrow...can I wait that long...

[Telrad]

I have the Baader Laser Collimator (£50) and it was collimated perfectly, it is also a doddle to collimate your scope with. I can't speak for the Cheshire as I've never used it.

I have a Baader laser Colli and a Cheshire, I usually use both in conjunction, the laser first then I check it with the Cheshire to ensure that it's OK. Works everytime; prehaps it's a little OCD as the laser should suffice, but I prefer this method.

[It's Full Of Stars]

I have the Baader Laser Collimator (£50) and it was collimated perfectly

Was tempted, it's a great looking device and I read that if you get one that's not collimated you just send it back, as they prefer you not to mess with them!? I went with the cheaper cheshire as that's what's used in Astro Babys guide, and I've already gone over budget.

I usually use both in conjunction

Great to know the cheshire won't be wasted if I go laser (I can be OCD too), it all depends on how well the flextube holds collimation.

I have just been on the phone to my local shop to order my Dob half an hour ago

Yay, congrats ... what are you getting? I've heard this season tends to absorb scopes, I would have had to reserve a classic 200P adding a few days till the next shipment came in. Good luck for tomorrow!

Permission has been granted to buy a scope

Ha, which method did you use? I just went on and on about which scope to buy for a year and it seemed to do the trick. Last I heard is 'just get what you want!' ... dangerous words!