How do I (Can I) redeem this telescope?

[heathenwoods]

Hi. I recently bought my son (9) a Celestron Firstscope; we've not had a chance to take it out together yet but I took it out by myself tonight. Having had a bt of time to find out what I'd bought (after I bought it, d'oh!) I really wasn't expecting much but.. was pretty thrilled to see the moon's craters clearly and also Jupiter and, I think, two of its moons.

However.. my son has high hopes of seeing Jupiter's red spot... that ain't going to happen just yet if I'm right in what I think. Its eyepieces are SR4mm and H20mm which, as far as I can make out, are far from great. So I *think* an upgrade of these would be a good idea if he's ever to have a hope of seeing the red spot. I've read The Warthog's eyepiece guide but will need to read it again, and probably again before I 'get' what its saying. My big question is, though, will new eyepieces be enough?

I have a feeling I may start saving for my own scope but don't want my son to be disheartened by his - can it be saved?

Thanks for your time!

EDIT: Just spotted this thread asking about the same 'scope (can i call it a 'scope? :-)

[pvaz]

Visually the GRS is more of a pink spot with a shade similar to it's surroundings, somehow pictures exaggerate the color.

Under good seeing conditions (stable atmosphere) I been able to spot it often with an 8" scope and a 5mm Orthoscopic Eyepiece. It is a small detail compared to the planet so letting your eyes adapt to the dark and observing for a while helps you detect it.

Judging by the difficulties I had on my scope, I would guess you need something with more resolution power, maybe a scope with 100mm aperture will do.

[MjrTom]

You dont need an eight inch scope that big to see the GRS

I can see it in my three inch scope at approx 130x magnification for instance

The steadiness of the atmosphere makes all the difference

[heathenwoods]

You dont need an eight inch scope that big to see the GRS

I can see it in my three inch scope at approx 130x magnification for instance

The steadiness of the atmosphere makes all the difference

Thanks! That gives me a bit of hope then. It's a 76mm Dobsonian so I'm guessing that would class as a 3 inch? 130x magnification? Working that out will take me back to the eyepiece thread... in the morning!

[MjrTom]

You need to take into account the central obstruction on your telescope (the secondary mirror) which reduces the effective aperture slightly but basically you're in the right ball park.

[Damo636]

Yep, easily detectable in my 4" frac when conditions permit.

[pvaz]

Yep, easily detectable in my 4" frac when conditions permit.

4" = 100mm aperture which gathers considerably more light then a 76mm reflector with central obstruction, spherical mirror and refraction spikes. You're also probably using some of those TV EPs which are known to have some of the best light transmission and contrast available on the market.

Adding to that, you'll probably have an impatient kid trying to detect (<- key word) an elusive detail with under ideal equipment...

heathenwoods, haves the scope already and he should definitely give it a few tries, but I wouldn't get my hopes too high.

[ronin]

The scope says 76mm and f/4.

At f/4 it will need to be kept well collimated at all times.

At the cost I also would not expect the mirror to be a parabolic, so (sorry) another negative point for it.

The focal length is 300mm so for 130x it would need a 2.3mm eyepiece. Anything that short is not going to work on that scope, even for 100x you would need a 3mm eyepiece and although eyepieces that short are available then cost significantly more then the scope.

I would say the purpose of the scope is a cheap way of having a first foray into this hobby and if it goes no further then there has not been much expenditure.

My advice would be to use what you have and look at whatever you can, but don't spend any more money on it. If you want to take it further then save up for something better/bigger.

If a 9 year old is involved then possibly think of a refractor. Although not as big, penny for penny, as a reflector they are less trouble when it comes to maintaining a scope.

Where about in the UK are you, there may well be a club somewhere within reach, there may be someone from here that is able to show you a setup. Several clubs are holding public nights at this time.

[MjrTom]

Should have checked a bit more closely I did not realise it was only 300mm focal length so you might struggle to push the magnification over about 75x magnification however you should still see hints of the structure

[NGC 1502]

I do think that you will struggle to see the Great Red Spot with that cute little scope.

Last night (Sat 15th) I had my 10" Dob and my 70mm refractor set up in my garden.

The GRS was due to be best on view at about 23.20 (BST). In the 10" it was well seen, but in the refractor (it's a decent quality) I was not at all sure I could see it.

But there is lots more to see when it comes to Jupiter events. Have a look here -

http://media.skyandtelescope.com/documents/JphenTab2011-2012.pdf

it shows Jupiter events until next March. Easiest to see are when the moons are eclipsed, or become visible again, by moving into or out of Jupiters shadow, or behind Jupiter itself. Slightly harder to see are shadow transits, and much harder to see are the when the moons themselves transit, or the GRS.

Better eyepieces would help. But please don't give up on your scope, there is so much to see with a modest instrument.

Regards, Ed.

[The Bat]

I will second what several others have said. I struggle sometimes to pick out the red spot with my 8". It's not glaringly obvious, and not all that red, and can be difficult for the inexperienced eye. Seeing detail requires some steady seeing conditions and the patience to observe for minutes, waiting to tease out the details. Children expect things just to leap out at them. I have children looking through my scope who claim not to be able to see the 'stripes' on Jupiter (which are pretty obvious), never mind the red spot! Don't forget it's not always visible anyway - Stellarium can be handy to predict when it might be on the right side.

For the price, your scope will show you a few decent sights, but if the bug bites, I would save the money for an upgrade rather than buying lots of accessories. If you have a club near you it would be worth finding out if they hold public events as this will give you the chance to look through some bigger telescopes and then you might get lucky with the spot.

Good luck.

Rachel

[heathenwoods]

Thanks everyone - some instructive and helpful advice there. In short, we'll get on with what we have and enjoy what we can but I'll probably get something a bit better when finances allow. I've got Stellarium and it is great for getting a sense of what's what and what's where.

Great idea regarding public events, I'll keep an eye out for those.

[Moonshane]

One thing you will see is the galaxy Andromeda Messier 31. Whilst this may not seem as exciting as Jupiter, when you consider what it is then it can be 'sold' as much more exciting. tell him that the light took 2.5 millian years to get here so you are looking back into the past at a cloud of hundreds of billions of stars......dramatic pause a la Brian Cox......which will one day collide with our galaxy, filling the sky with new stars for anyone around in several billion years......then look away and up to the stars in a vague kind of way.

there are lots of open clusters, the orion nebula, and of course the moon which will make looking through this scope well worthwhile. if he remains interested then this can become a travel scope for darker skies and you can buy something larger.

eyepieces and other accessories are standard across most scopes so the costs in future will be lessened to some degree.

[heathenwoods]

That's really useful thanks and has led me to this list. That should keep us occupied until my missus gives me my wallet back (all I said was was, "Telescope..?!")

[angusb1]

We struggled to see it in a 6" refractor on Friday, but seeing was not ideal. I think in the scope you have you are unlikely to see it, but it will give you some superb views of Saturn when it comes around.