Help: I am a beginner!

[Andrew*]

Welcome to SGL Shakey.

You've fired a lot of questions at us - thanks! That's why we're here. Your questions strongly remind me of the number and type of questions I would ask this wonderfully helpful bunch of people just 6 months ago, so I'll make an attempt to resolve them for you as best I can. (be prepared for a loooong post...)

firstly I'll tackle the biggest question of getting onto the equipment ladder. For someone on a budget, you need to think very carefully about your choice, because the wrong one could be fatal to your hobby!

For example, what kind of pleasure will a 4.5" Reflector provide?

I was also drawn to the reflectors more than any other type - they seemed (and are) the most versatile, and offer greatest aperture (brightness and resolution - just what I wanted) for the money you pay. Before joining the forum I just went for the first 4.5" reflector on eBay for under £100. Though that scope was fantastic for me, I grew out of it far too quickly, and before two months were out, I had gone and bought a scope with almost double the aperture and a mount to suit it. This set-up was also acquired second hand, and cost a total of £300 - a good price for what it is. My thinking at the time was that I didn't want to shoot into something with a lot of money for something I won't really get into, so I chose modest equipment. Some people think that doing this can spoil the hobby with rubbish views. I object! The scope gave me good enough views to learn the ropes, and encourage my enthusiasm.

However, if the already enthusiasm's there, I would suggest - as others have already - go for the best you can afford, and it will last you a lot longer.

Back to the question you asked: my personal answer would be - lots! You can get decent views of the brighter nebulae and galaxies, and very decent views of saturn, the moon, and star clusters with a 4.5" newt (Newtonian reflector). These views will help you learn your way around the skies, from object to object. Before long, though, you will inevitably want to see mroe detail and go for a larger aperture.

How much could i actually see witha 4.5" in comparison to a 6" ?

I would say the difference is worth the extra cash. You will see more detail in the fainter objects, and at higher magnifications (planetary).

And how much difference does the EQ mount make?

To be honest, I would say to you - not a lot. I've never bothered with a proper polar alignment, which is necessary to get the most out of these mounts. It helps you to keep your object in your view. I've also had trouble with my motors, which are nice to have visually, but essential only for photography. I find these mounts are less portable and more hassle, and though I haven't tried a dob mount, I imagine these are very fuss-free if you simply want to observe. Also, for your money, you get a lot more in terms of optics.

I have also heard there can be some distortion of the image due to the veins holding the mirror ? How much will this affect the image?

I have never complained aobut lack of contrast because of the little spiders, even in my 4.5", which has ones as thick as your pinky! Saying that, though, I've never tried a frac (refractor - uses lenses, so there's no obstructions to the view, so more contrast).

That 8" is big lol!

8" seems very big at first (I won't forget my excitement when I decided on one!), but trust me - it's very nice. I would seriously consider chubs' offer if you want to progress far in this hobby. It will show you A LOT, and will continue to do so for years to come

What do you guys think is the best out of the Skywatchers the 150P or the 130PM ? Will both allow me to looks at DSOs? I'm stuck lol.

This is the real question, I suppose. Yes, both will allow you to see some DSOs, but you will run out of them quicker with the latter! As this seems to be your greatest interest (it was mine), I would very much suggest the larger. It will give you more satisfaction in terms of views.

Also, how much will some light pollution affect the performance of the scopes, there can be a lot round here, but there are dark portions of sky (facing away from the city)

light pollution is the astronomer's worst enemy. If you can, choose a scope which you can whisk away to your nearest darkest site. Even a large dob can be fine for this, because they're so compact and simple. If you have a car, plonk it (carefully!) on the back seat with some pillows, do the belts up, drive there, and plonk it on the ground, and you're ready to view the universe! If you don't have a car, maybe you could even walk away from any direct light that may bother you.

Alternatively, filters can help you cut out some of the light pollution.

If neither of the above, set out each session knowing which targets are in the best part of your sky, and concentrate on them.

And now (sorry, I still haven't finished!) for some general advice.

Remember - a telescope can be the least of your expenses. Decent eyepieces are a MUST for getting the best out of your optics. A set like this [ http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=revelationepset ] is a very good option for starters. It will give you an eyepiece for almost any occasion, and eventually you'll find the need to expand on it, but that's for another topic...

I would like to add my personal opinion on where to buy from. Now I don't mean to offend anyone here, but for someone on a budget, much more advanced equipment can be bought for the same money if it's bought 2nd hand. Though you don't get the same level of service from a reputable dealer such as Steve at FLO (First Light Optics), you can pick up equipment in perfectly adequate condition for much cheaper. For example, why settle for a 6" dob new if you can get a used 8" (maybe even with upgrades) with the same money and a bit of patience? An excellent site for 2nd hand stuff is http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk ... (a less excellent site is eBay!!)

Well, I hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction, and helped you gome to a decision on the all-important first scope purchase. Keep on asking those questions.

Andrew

[Shakeyjc]

Thanks! Thats was a very good reply!

Im just wondering that even with some light pollution around - will still be able to see some DSOs right? Out the back of my house can be very dark and there is not much light on the sky either. Its just facing the other way towards the more urban area where the sky is a bit light and there appears to be quite a few street lamps lol . I don't have a car, so it might be hard to get to a much darker area. I will be going to Uni (Lancaster) in the coming year i think, and i think its darker there, so i could probably continue using it there. I don't have a job yet, and thats why the budget is what it is. Thanks for the replies!

[Whippy]

Welcome Shakey..

Light pollution filters such as the Baader Neodynium do help lots! If it was me, I'd get the Skyliner 150p as you get as big a scope for your money, you'll see plenty with 6" of aperture. Word of warning though, if you do get a Dobsonian, don't be tempted to go and buy high magnification eyepieces as the higher the mag goes, the quicker objects move through the sky and the more you're going to have to move the scope to keep it in your view.

Also, get as much info as you can, it's a steep learning curve! Books such as Turn Left At Orion, Stargazing with a telescope and software like Stellarium (and of course this fine forum) will help you loads.

[FLO]

Another advantage of having more aperture is that the light lost when using light pollution filters like the Baader Neodymium is less significant.

[Shakeyjc]

Bit of a random question, but what would Saturn look like through the Skyliner 150P ?

[FLO]

Stunning 8)

Given good seeing conditions, you will see a warm yellowish colour, the Cassini Division (gap in the rings) and subtle banding on the planet itself.

[Shakeyjc]

Oh, that sounds good! And even though i don't have a telescope yet, what DSOs would you recommend to test a telescope on?

[FLO]

M13 Globular Cluster in Hercules, M81 and M82 galaxies, M51 Whirlpool galaxy and Beehive cluster would be good for starters.

[philsail1]

Dear "shakeyjc" - Just saw all your replies! Re what size telescope to get? Everyone has given you good advice in going for the biggest you can afford. I owned a "Skywatcher 130P" for nearly 4 years. This is a good Newtonian reflector. Its Portable, easy to set up, and has a single axis (Right Ascension) motor drive, which is a must, for it allows you to observe an object for a good few minutes (without a motor drive, any object will quickly drift out of view and you will be constantly having to either nudge the mount of a Dobsonian, or slowly turn the controls of a hand operated mount). You will no doubt want to use the highest magnification you have, and the higher the mag used, the quicker an object will drift out of view. This can be annoying. I have now "upgraded" to a "Skywatcher" 200mm Reflector on an HEQ5 twin axis motor driven mount (from Steve at First Light Optics (with 10% discount too!). To me this is a "massive" set up - and not one you can simply "nip" outside for a quick look at the heavens on a cold clear night. However (and it is a big however!) the views through the 200mm compared to the 130p are stunningly better. On your budjet, I would go for the "Skywatcher 150" Newtonian, which will last you several years. Because of the good price, you can then gradually buy better eyepieces as you desire. (but when buying these, do take advice from other members here, and the likes of Steve from First Light Optics). Even the Skywatcher 200mm I have, still came with the standard Skywatcher lenses, which are adequate, but don't do justice to the excellent quality of the mirrors. Starting out, I'm glad I bought the Skywatcher 130P - the 200mm would I think, have put me off Astronomy if I'd have jumped in and bought this first. To get the best out of any hobby takes a great investment in "time" (as well as effort and financial outlay!) and astronomy by its very nature, does take up a LOT of time (most of it spent outside in quite cold conditions) so think carefully about how much time you have to spare (esp if you are going to study in uni) and whether you can transport and set up whatever scope you buy. (I have a small Skywatcher 80T refractor on a basic "Alt Azimuth" mount, which is a great little instrument to pick up and take straight out into my back yard for a quick look at the night skies on a clear night). The whole topic of astronomy and telescopes is such a BIG subject that anyone coming into it can get confused by the wealth of information (and instruments) available from books, magazines, adverts and individuals. We are all different, in our levels of interest, equipment needs, viewing locations - and financial budgets! Its a case of "horses for courses." Consider Carefully!

Philsail1.

[Shakeyjc]

Thanks again! Well i never get much sleep at night anyway lol! philsail1, when you say the "Skywatcher 150 Newtonian" do you mean the £225 one the FLO site or the £160 Dobsonian? Im just wondering as £225 is probably a stretch at the moment. :?

[philsail1]

Sorry I missed your last question there Shakeyjac - we've had our granchildren up this over Easter, and I haven't had any chance to look in on SGLounge. I meant the £225 Skywatcher 150 reflector. If you can stretch your budjet this far, this scope will last you a long time. Keep your questions coming - it's what this site is all about (I had a great deal of help from the members here).

Regards,

philsail1