The Future For Astronomy?

[Carbon Brush]

The recent post by Si W on professional / amateur status set me thinking.

There are lots of funding cuts in the astronomy & astrophysics professional sector. These can only continue, or deepen, in the forseeable future. New equipment funding becoming non-existent. Not a too confrontational comment I hope.

Does anyone think that the amateur stargazers with decent kit could, in a few years, find a knock on the door...

Hello I'm Dr Nebula from the University. I'm trying to do my research into something or other. But I don't have any access to decent equipment as the university can't afford it. Can you help? Can you look at this object for me? Can I use your scope?

Or will Dr Nebula be busy trying to earn a living in the workplace outside of education and research?

Just a thought..

David.

[Si W]

Very Good point David, it would be an advantage for the professional world of astronomy to engage with amateur astronomers (more eyes/cameras in the sky), Ok so we don't have a small cloud free mountain in are back gardens with a 30ins scope onto, and weather would be an issue, but there is a lot of stuff/research amateur astronomers can get involved in, if I was asked to participate in a research project/program by say Manchester university for example I'd give it a go, it would have to be though a university, not just gathering data for some under grad that would only benefit his/her education and eventual qualifications. It would have to be the real deal.

[garethmob]

thats a very interesting thought david, one which as a student does effect me (not as astronomy though but computing) my universitys got a dome on the main roof but iv never seen it open in the last 4 years i think perhaps dr nebula would start asking the astro socoties, perhaps the gift of descovering or even naming might be an incentive (i know its a film) but an example would be the deep impact i know for me as a basic amateur i would be honoured to allow dr nebula to use my equiptment, i might learn some new tricks too

[lw24]

Totally agree...

The continued cuts in funding for astronomy and astrophysics jobs annoys me. The people in charge in this world are too concerned about their life, what they do, and what happens in the confinements of Earth, not about the future. They most definately put short term in front of long term. What are our individual lives to the progression of the universe? Nothing. Too many people on this planet are too hung up in what happens on this little globe, and fail to look at the bigger picture. I believe that if we respect our natural environment, and don't destroy ourselves, the human race could live on for many millions of years to come. By then, contact with other intelligent life may be easy. If we continue to think along the lines of "There's no point trying to contact other life, it'll take too long", then we never will! Some people need to have a look at where they live, and who they are, from outside the little bubble; Earth.

Rant over.

Also, the cuts annoy me as I want to get a job in Astronomy. If not, i suppose Geography will do

Clear Skies

[FraserClarke]

Yes and no, I think. There is, and always will be, value in observations made by amateurs with small telescopes (remember that "small" to a professional means anything less than 4 meters). However, it's never going to be the main-stream of astronomical research, simply because the ground-breaking discoveries you can make with an 0.5m telescope have probably already all been discovered! There are occasional exceptions of course, but not enough to make a career out of unfortunately. There is a good reason -- not just aperture fever! -- that we're continually striving to build larger and larger telescopes

As professional telescope time becomes harder to get, people make more use of archival data. There are many petabytes of data available on disc around the world, and quite probably there is data around that can answer the question you're interested in -- even if it wasn't taken specifically for that purpose. Projects like the Sloan Digital Sky Survey have shown how powerful this model can be. In particular, projects like GalaxyZoo have shown the power of amateur "armies" in making new scientific discoveries.

Something which I think will be very exciting in the next few years for amateurs and professionals alike will be following up the new generation of transient surveys coming on-line over the next decade. Professional projects like Palomar Transient Factory, PanStarrs, LSST, etc will find literally thousands of variable objects every night. There is no way that these can all be followed up through the professional observatory system (it really isn't set-up to do that!), and the plan I believe is to make these 'alerts' immediately available to anyone who is interested. The important thing will be when you can point a telescope at the object, rather than what telescope you can point at the object. An interested amateur with a 0.2m telescope and CCD ready to point at a target *now* really could do some very interesting science.

BTW -- funding for astronomy in the UK now seems reasonably stable for the next 3--4 years (post CSR). It's a lot lower than it was unfortunately, and we've lost a lot of great facilities and capabilites, but it at least now seems stable.

[Capricorn]

Did any of you attend the BAA talk at Norwich on Amateur/Professional collaboration?

The "big" one concerned spectrographic data gathering, however it was a case people going to an observatory in Portuagal that they managed to get the use of, and the spectroscope used was one that an amateur could purchase but was in the £2500 bracket.

So yest amateurs were a big part but so was a semi-professional observatory.

Too many people on this planet are too hung up in what happens on this little globe,

As to being too hung up with this globe we are on, well we haven't actually got an alternative globe to try afterwards. So for the human race to one day head outwards it first has to keep this globe going to be in a position to get that far into the future.

Sorry but the statement seems a little short sighted. Extinction is a bit permanent and is a very blunt form of failure.

If you want to get into astronomy work forget astronomy, try low temperature engineering.

[Macavity]

Or will Dr Nebula be busy trying to earn a living in the workplace outside of education and research?

He might consider doing so. <G> Harsh but true? In Particle Physics, most of the real work seemed to be done by graduate students, research associates and younger staff generally. These and the HARDWARE seem to be the most vulnerable areas when cuts are applied. Senior scientists always seem to find a place somewhere, be that at foreign institutes, or simply by "knowing people" in their peer group etc. Of course we need direction and policy makers in science, but sometimes "Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians"? Controversial? Doubtless! Of course, this may not apply to Astronomy... And you guys are lucky in a way... No room for an "LHC" in the average back garden, sadly.

[lw24]

As to being too hung up with this globe we are on, well we haven't actually got an alternative globe to try afterwards. So for the human race to one day head outwards it first has to keep this globe going to be in a position to get that far into the future.

Sorry but the statement seems a little short sighted. Extinction is a bit permanent and is a very blunt form of failure.

If you want to get into astronomy work forget astronomy, try low temperature engineering.

Sorry for making a short sighted statement. I didn't mean to say that we should abandon this planet and immediately look for alternatives. I feel that humans should conserve Earth, as as far as we know, Earth is the only place in the Universe that houses life (although highly unlikely ). What I'm saying is, there will be a time where knowledge of 'whats out there' will help, and never spending time and/or money looking for 'whats our there' would be a massive disapointment.

Sorry for the misunderstanding

Low temperature engineering? Just googled it, and not much came up...

Clear Skies

[dph1nm]

It can be done. Dr Martinez Delgado from Tenerife has been collaborating with amateur astrophotographers for sereval years, imaging very faint tidal streams around nearby galaxies using amateur scopes.

NigelM