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The Comedy of Autoguiding

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Guest

Guest

Posted
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After trying 3 different guide cameras and wasting at least 3 weeks of my life I've come to the conclusion that auto-guiding may not be for me!

First I tried a Synguider, then another one when I thought the first might be faulty due to the type of error I was getting (more later). Then I tried the QHY6 and after getting exactly the same error and laughing my way through hours of forum posts including the FAQ sheet that is provided for PhD guide software I got the same error again, and again ...and again.

I tried every combination of settings recording start points, test points and failure points - none of these settings had absolutely any impact on the failure point - namely WSS or Wandering Star Syndrome as I've seen it called.

WSS presents itself with a preference for East every time PhD starts guiding - it just starts firing loads of RA East commands and off the screen goes the star - everytime - adjust the aggressiveness / no change, cal steps / no change - in fact no setting makes any difference to the rate or timing of the WSS - except turning RA aggro to 0 - that was fun because it made it stop (but of course it wasn't guiding on anything)

So of course I thought it might be the mount* - my EQ-5 which tracks perfectly - aligns perfectly - does everything perfectly - it must be the mount....but we'll never know because I can't swap that out. In fact the mount works so well and is so well aligned that I can go 300sec with minimal star trailing (sometimes none which has me wondering why I should bother guiding for the tiny improvement it will bring).

I've read of other people struggling with WSS using an EQ/CG-5 - most had to give up - but I intend to continue the battle to find a cure for it so today I've stripped the mount and stuck just my ED-80 on it to see if I can get it to guide by itself then at least if it doesn't work I can try the QHY6 as a deepsky imager and re-group to plan my next attack.

All these hours of hilarity are highly recommended and if you happen to find a cure for WSS (with a preference for the East / using an EQ-5) drop me a line so I can arrange a parade in your honour, a state dinner and residency on the fourth plinth.

David

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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This is terrible! Have you changed your ST4 cable?

Maybe the mount is mis wired somewhere?

Does another member live near you so you could try some back to back kit swaps?

Have you changed your power supply?

You are taking like a gentleman, Sir, but it is a shame you are having to do so...

Olly

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Rossco72

Rossco72

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By chance are you powering the mount and the autoguider from the same supply?

If so, and if possible, try a different supply with the guider. I can't explain the physics of it but my EQ6 guides better when it and my LVI guider are on different batteries.....

Cheers

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Guest

Guest

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Thanks guys - all contributions to the battle are very welcome!

The camera is being powered by the laptop and I note Peter's experiences with the EQ-3 - which I believe shares a computer with the EQ-5 so it may have the same problems - except that other's have got their Synscan Pro EQ-5 to work so I don't know.

And Ollypenrice - it is the toil of battling WSS that informs my response :) As Fredrick the Great said, "When the storm roars, the wise man, inwardly at peace awaits without disquiet the fate he can't avert". ie. WSS is here to stay! har har

David

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Psychobilly

Psychobilly

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You probably have been down this road as part of your "adventures into autoguiding"

Have you got ...

Anyway of sending guide command to the mount - not autoguiding - just using the guideport to slew the mount in the various directions...?

Remember with -RA depending on what you have the guiderate set to in the sysnscan handset you may not actually move the mount - it may just slowdown (<1x) stop ( =1x) or go backwards (>1x)

IIRC the Synguider buttons can be used to slew the mount at the guiderate

Whenever I had guiding problems I would always try and move the mount through the guideport - In PHDGuiding you can use a virtual handbox to do this...

Peter...

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Guest

Guest

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You probably have been down this road as part of your "adventures into autoguiding"

Have you got ...

Anyway of sending guide command to the mount - not autoguiding - just using the guideport to slew the mount in the various directions...?

Remember with -RA depending on what you have the guiderate set to in the sysnscan handset you may not actually move the mount - it may just slowdown (<1x) stop ( =1x) or go backwards (>1x)

IIRC the Synguider buttons can be used to slew the mount at the guiderate

Whenever I had guiding problems I would always try and move the mount through the guideport - In PHDGuiding you can use a virtual handbox to do this...

Peter...

Peter,

Excellent suggestions (as usual)

I have used ctrl-T to test the mount connection with PhD - does that count? It responded well in both axis. When I had the Synguider (now replaced by the QHY6) I was able to slew with the handpad (I think?)

I have to say your note about how the mount may not move at certain guide rates etc is a real gem and should be etched bold into the lexicon of mount inspection as the legions of people who think their mount is kaput because it isn't moving seem to be growing.

Another thing I noticed was backlash in RA/DEC - which I eliminated with about 00 01 00 of counter signal in both axis (via Synscan) - I've tried guiding both with this input and without it (ensuring is was cleared before forcing cal) which was another hilarious moment - the fact that you really shouldn't input this correction - PhD should do work without - but adding it had absolutely no affect (except that when I slew to a star now it stops on top of it with all the bravado of Luke Skywalker's targeting computer). If only we had fire buttons on these things - it would be a compensation of sorts (only jokin')

David

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Guest

Guest

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Tonight the stage is set - the curtain is pulled back to show a small observatory sitting in the Oxfordshire countryside. The sky is clear and Ursa Major has offered to provide a target for the quarrelsome Synscan, EQ-5 and QHY6 all looking through the Orion ED-80 in search of a guide star.

One appears

Not to bright, not to dim it sacrifices itself to the PhD software.

Calibration begins - West presents no problems nor does the corrections in the East but it fails in Declination - An acceptable failure that can be dealt with later.

Guiding begins

then fails

again

That was a short show!

But three cheers for this band of merry mirth makers as they wreak havoc on my attempts at guided astrophotography.

As I consider abandoning my attempts and turning my attention to trying out the QHY6 on M51 (a favourite) something appears - stage right -

Clouds

David

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Guest

Guest

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How is everything wired up?

And i mean every cable even power where is it from and where does it go to?

Hi Earl,

Good question - literally - power supply has been mentioned a lot.

The mount is powered via that mains through a surge protector.

This includes the Synscan and PC (laptop)

The camera is powered via a USB 2.0 port attached to the Ascom 5.0 camera selection in PhD

That about covers it - any ideas?

David

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Guest

Guest

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How do you control the mount?

With a large stick......sorry couldn't resist!:)

Yes - it's that mount - I control it with Stellarium or the hand control (but i prefer the stick...:eek:)

I've ensured that Stellarium is not plugged in during my attempts etc.

Just took an unguided 300 second shot of M51 (a favourite) with no star trails - see attached - so it looks like the mount is ok?

David

David

post-14524-133877567857_thumb.jpg

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Guest

Guest

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I take it you control it with a serial lead from the Handset to the PC.

Switch over to EQMod, and see if guiding without a ST4 cable works.

I've edited my original reply as it wasn't clear

Current config

PC to Camera: USB/Belking

Camera to Mount: st-4 cable to guide port on mount computer

I have got a USB/Serial converter cable that I was using plugged in to the hand controller to use stellarium with the mount - not for anything else and it was unplugged during guide attempts.

I used this cable once to test EQMod - I plugged it into the hand controller and and set it (hnd ctrlr) to PC Direct - a function not supported by EQMod. It didn't work - lost tracking even out of guide mode - which is a known issue.

What are the alternatives that I could use to bypass the st-4 guideport using this usb/serial cable?

This would be a good test.

David

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Guest

Guest

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Using the appropriate EQDir adaptor of course... :)

Oh NO! more money har har! That seems to be the prescription for all things WSS - more money! Arrrgghh!

Ok, I feel better now - where can I get one of these - FLO? Modern Astronomy - I'll check it out - buy the wrong one - return it get the right one and probably watch my star wander off - stage left :-)

And I take it I can plug this adapter into the usb/serial cable I've got now?

Thanks guys

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drawnsley

drawnsley

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Posted

Hi David

I have been setting up my HEQ5 Pro for months now and tried all of the free guiding software. I notice you are using a Belkin Capture device similar to mine. Bin it as it causes the guiding to become erratic with PHD and Metaguide. I have changed to a cheap Eascap device and solved my problems. My Belkin works perfect in all situations except guiding.

David

South Australia

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Guest

Guest

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Hi David

I have been setting up my HEQ5 Pro for months now and tried all of the free guiding software. I notice you are using a Belkin Capture device similar to mine. Bin it as it causes the guiding to become erratic with PHD and Metaguide. I have changed to a cheap Eascap device and solved my problems. My Belkin works perfect in all situations except guiding.

David

South Australia

Thanks for this - the problem is that the camera is the thing that needs the belking connection - I don't have any way of connecting the pc to the camera without it.

Unless I'm missing the point - sorry, don't know what Easecap is ? Does it convert the camera port in some way?

David

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Guest

Guest

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The USB from the Camera Goes Direct into the USB on the Laptop or are you running it through a Hub?

The usb from the camera is going straight into my laptops usb2.0 port.

I will try running EQMod through the handset again tonight using the usb/serial cable with PC Direct on the handset. The last time I tried simple tracking failed even outside of guiding but maybe I did something wrong.

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