deanchapman2705

I agree, it's a shame because the balance of resolution to pixel size in an APS-C sensor is perfect, but it's definitely starting to show it's age now. The 533 seems too low resolution and small pixel size for me but like how new it is with the high QE, zero amp glow and low RN. Then the 294 seems to fit perfectly in-between and is growing to be my favourite although as @The Lazy Astronomer said earlier: which makes me worry.... Looking online, it's true. Pictures like the below are everywhere where the 294MC is paired with any type of nb filter that includes H-alpha and can not be calibrated out. It seems to happen only at 656nm wavelength though.

Well this is my attempt of stretching your image (I purely used Adobe Photoshop as I always do). Not sure how to describe it but with the Sony, I needed to do about 4-6 curve layers worth of stretching to reveal the nebulosity but the noise gets worse if I do any more. With yours (071MC), it only needed 2-3 curve layers but the noise is revealed much sooner. This seemed to remind me of an old sensor like my Canon 500d I used to use. However like you said above, you used a much higher gain and with bortle 7 skies - I usually shoot at ISO 640 @ f/5.9 and bortle 6 so that, and with a higher QE value compared, would probably explain it. So I can see the potential especially if I would be shooting from bortle 4 skies and a faster scope but still struggling to see if it's really worth it for £1.5K. Do you happen to have something you've shot once with the Sony and also the 071MC to compare directly? Similar settings, exposure time? Even if it's a galaxy for example to compare noise.

Wow, from Bortle 7, that's quite impressive actually! Thank you, that's really helpful! I'll have a go at processing it later today. Yeah this is what I have included in my budget, ASI Air Pro and EAF, and going for a ZWO camera as I like the idea controlling everything from one software/app.

Do you have one of the light frames straight from the camera I could see from this? If so, what Bortle sky are you shooting from? I had a go at processing old data from Bortle 6 skies. Hardly any exposure time so you can tell I have stretched the data more than it would like to be and the stars have been ruined in the process. 30x 90sec (45mins) unguided, no filter - so nearly a quarter of your data and you can definitely tell. I prefer yours obviously with how natural it looks compared to mine but that's probably due to having more data and being closer to the subject with a higher focal length. With that in mind, I can't see it being worth the upgrade... unless it's down to the processing? Maybe if I could have a go at processing your stacked image, that could help me see? This is one of the light frames straight from the camera, not stacked:

Yeah the andromeda galaxy and especially the Orion Nebula with the A7iii's insane full well depth being classed as a HDR sensor also means I can bring out details from faint dust clouds whilst keeping the core underexposed even. It just worries me how the 017MC has a smaller pixel size, much lower FWD, much higher RN than the 294 and worse QE than even the A7iii and 1600MC. Yes it would show more nebulosity but with those lower specs and for £1.5k, do you think it's worth the upgrade? If I had my old Canon 500d now, I definitely would 😂

Would be interesting to see the 294MC on this comparison - I would love to modify my camera but I use it for photography more than astrophotography so it wouldn't make sense for me unfortunately. Also here's my go at the North America Nebula - This is my only attempt since I started from a year ago so could definitely do better with more data and better processing. Very limited time on it with clouds and Bortle 6 skies but interesting how much noticeable the H-alpha is. Obviously this is stacked and stretched but still... 30x 90s (45mins) @ iso 640, unguided (setup used in signature) This is true, hot pixels are quite common with the A7iii too, not really noticeable but a pain to remove. Interesting... what sort of calibration difficulties? General unevenness and gradients etc? I see what you mean though mosaic imaging seems too involved and technical for me. I also understand what you're saying about the 533 being better resolution than cropping the full frame sensor into the same FOV but I prefer having a higher resolution image with a wider FOV due to viewing it on a 4k screen and just the ability to zoom into a picture to see more detail - also bare in mind that the chip is square so although it's 9mp, once you crop it to 3:2 like the other sensors, it's really 6mp (3008 x 2005) which is a let down for me... I really like the 533 with how modern it is, they just need to make the same thing but M4/3 to allow better resolution and pixel size! Unfortunately this is way out of my budget as it's double the price of the 294MC and would probably go for the 294MM with nb filters for nearly the same price. I forgot to mention that I would like to stick with ZWO as I would be getting their ASI Air Pro and EAF to be able to do the whole thing from my tablet indoors for ease. As I mentioned above earlier, I'm not very patient when things start to go wrong - even the autoguiding and PA can drive me insane sometimes 😂 I did also look at QHY but the accessories required for it to be the equivalent with using a portable device to control the whole setup (mini computer/raspberry pi, power hub, control unit, EAF etc) actually ended up more expensive even though their cameras are cheaper.

Thanks for your input Elp I've not noticed this problem myself although I think it may be related to Sony's long exposure noise reduction setting which I have turned off. I have also never experience walking noise either. I think that's what makes the A7iii so good is that even at such high ISO's, it has very even and flat dark frames when stretched - no irregular noise, patterns, glow, colour noise that you experience with DSLR's, just grain (and a few hot pixels). I bought it for photography before I knew about astrophotography so was pretty lucky lol. Just not sure if going from this to a OSC dedicated astro camera, being an older sensor but more sensitive, is a big enough of a jump for the price. Yeah this is my main reason for not going mono, is the cost as it's way outside my budget now Like you said, I think I would like the simplicity of having a OSC camera - I tend to get very impatient and frustrated when things go wrong haha

Hi, I was originally looking at moving from my full-frame Sony A7iii to a dedicated astro camera (ZWO ASI294MM Pro) but then bought a house instead... So there's no way I can be spending that much money now 😂 Going from a stock camera to a monochrome dedicated astro camera, shooting through narrowband filters, definitely seemed to be worth the upgrade in terms of sensitivity, light gathering and also being a M4/3 sensor with a small refractor (as I get bad vignetting with full-frame) but I've now limited myself to one-shot colour cameras instead purely for the price as mentioned above - cameras are cheaper and would only get a duo-band filter that would screw into my flattener. So my main worry is, now I would be getting a OSC camera rather than mono, is it actually that much better than my Sony A7iii? As in £1.5k better? I've had a look on AstroBin and don't mean to be harsh and I'm not exactly that good myself but was not really impressed with other people's pictures considering the price of these cameras but can't tell if it's their processing of the images or the cameras themselves - they seemed to struggle with noise even with hours of exposure time and weird colours, patterns, amp glow etc that you get from old sensors that my A7iii doesn't suffer from. On the other hand, I look at any mono cameras or even the 2600MC Pro, and there seem to be amazing pictures everywhere for obvious reasons 🤔 I've looked at the main specs, comparing in particular the 294MC Pro and 071MC Pro to my A7iii (not really interested in the 533 with its lower resolution and smaller pixel size) and was surprised how similar and in most cases, worse they were... my camera is stock so I could see how the ZWO cameras would reveal more nebulosity but to be fair, the a7iii seems to be surprisingly sensitive to the H-alpha wavelengths compared to the average DSLR as you can see below, so again, is it really worth the upgrade? I have put some of the data together in a table to help visualise the differences but there must be something I'm missing, right? Any help would be appreciated! Thanks, Dean

I took the mirror apart last night to measure the collimation screws and springs but looked through the pics of yours before hand and it really helped - Thanks! Turns out the collimations screws were long enough but the locking screws were too short. So I could move the mirror forward enough to focus but couldn't lock it down. But when putting it back together, I noticed the cork pads that sit behind the mirror and thought of sticking something else there to push the mirror forward so found some hard wool sticky pads that worked perfectly - It now focuses! I can even focus a little bit too much both ways as well - It was pretty cloudy last night but could just about see Vega and yes the coma is HORIFFIC haha. Literally just the centre of the image is "ok". I took a shot of Vega in the centre and in the corner and this is with the crop mode. For a laugh, I thought I'd image the globular cluster whilst it was there as well - But like I said at the start, I wasn't expecting to actually image with this scope as it was just to experiment and play around with. The main thing is, I definitely feel a lot more confident taking a Newtonian apart knowing how it all works now. Thank you for your help on this guys! Clear skies! Dean

Update - SO CLOSE!!! The adaptors arrived and I also ordered a crappy light pollution filter to, quite literally, stick on the end to protect the exposed sensor. Weirdly the thread on the nose piece was wrong so guess it's just threaded to stop reflections rather than a functional thread. With a bit of force, I managed to screw the filter on very slightly but blue-tacked it JIC as I wouldn't want it to fall onto the mirror! You can see from the third pic of it attached to the focuser that it is as close as it could possibly be. Bad news is... I tested it out last night and it still couldn't focus! But what makes it more annoying is that it was SOOO close! This is what a star looked like with the focuser wheeled in fully. So I unscrewed the collimation screws all the way until they came loose then screwed them back in a couple of turns to push the mirror forward as much as possible and this is what I get. I held up the bahtinov mask from my WO Z61 and this just shows how close it is! How annoying! So I guess the solution is to buy longer collimation screws as DaveL59 suggested and that should put the mirror close enough I have no idea what I'm doing but I'm going to take the primary mirror apart to see how the screws work and measure them but is there anything I should know about collimation screws in general? Is there a universal thread size? I've heard of Bob's Knobs so assume they are the best to buy from. Thanks, Dean PS. on the plus side, I brought out my WO Z61 ii later than night and managed to get some time on the comet C/2017 K2 PANSTARRS passing through the Summer Beehive cluster which made it worth it - it was just a tester to see how bright it was so only 17.5 mins of data. Also bare in mind humidity and seeing was bad, some misty clouds about: 35x 30secs @ ISO 1600 (couldn't be bothered to set up auto guiding so short exposures)

Update - I ordered a 1.25" to T2 and a low profile M42 to Sony NEX adapter: The 1.25" to T2 has arrived so just waiting for the NEX adaptor. Although, I have an M42 to Canon EOS and an EOS to NEX adaptor to try it out. Obviously using the EOS to NEX on top of the M42 adapter puts the sensor too far away so it can only focus on things up close but once the low profile M42 to NEX adaptor arrives, it should focus properly. But for now, with a 2x barlow it does work! The quality is awful with it though as expected haha. (without barlow) I tested out the vignetting and was surprised how "not terrible" it was! I forgot to test it with the barlow but here's the results: Full-frame Super 35 mode (APS-C) Tonight is clear so will be trialling it out with the barlow to see what the stars look like. Thanks, Dean

You're right, it's too small to be a T2 thread - here's an M42 to Canon adapter for comparison: I did not know you could bin your data after taking the pictures. I thought it was only something software related with your camera so will look into that. I'm pretty sure that would still have the same problem unless moving the primary mirror closer works then it would be worth it. Trouble is, I don't necessarily want to pay for a focuser 3x the cost if the scope if it might not work so need to be sure (would definitely be worth it if I knew it worked though) Will try finding a way of moving the mirror next then. Re the 130PDS, I did look into this even as my future scope so thought it would be ideal but with the camera, guiding, dew strap etc. it comes to almost exactly 5kg which sounds possible but with it being a large scope in size (compared to a compact refractor) I believe this has a negative impact on guiding. Thanks, Dean

Thanks guys, Raising the primary mirror sounds like a good idea actually, I'm guessing this will reduce the focal length and perhaps make it faster though? Re the T2 screw in adapter, I have unscrewed the eye piece clamp on the end of the focuser and this is what I can see (pic below) - so I take it this is a T2 thread? The diameter of the thread is 3.7mm if that helps... If so, this adapter should work then? - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-t2-sony-e-mount-adapter-for-asi1600-asi294-asi183-asi174.html also with this in-between - https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-accessories/zwo-t2-male-to-male-adapter.html Don't worry, I am aware of how terrible the pictures would be even using super 35 mode (crop) but like I said, this is just an experiment. I do have a 2x Barlow lens so could see what that does when I’m next free today. The weight though... I did not think of this. You're right, there's no way it could take the weight of a 650g camera. Even if the tension screws are tightened to the max and it doesn't move, the amount of flex would be ridiculous. Although saying that, if the focused is fully wound in, then maybe flex wouldn’t be much of a problem? And if I have the tube rotated so the focused sticks out horizontally, then slipping of the focus would not be a problem? If not then I guess that gives me no choice but to use a different focuser. It would need to be a good quality, dual-speed focuser that could take its weight. The only problem is, dual-speeds only come in 2" right? (unless you can modify a good quality 1.25" to be dual speed?) so I can't see any way of it fitting on this scope... If not, then I think I'll just be using it for visual then Thanks, Dean

Hi, So I'm into my astrophotography and have been doing it for a couple of years now. I usually image with a Sony A7iii (full-frame) using a WO Z61ii on a iOptron SkyGuider Pro. In the near future, I would like to upgrade to a goto mount (eq6r pro/gem-45) and get an 8" F4 newtonian. The trouble is, I have never owned a reflector before and with how high maintenance they can be compared to refractors, I bought a cheap second-hand SW Skyhawk 114p (500mm F4.4, light enough to fit on my mount) to experiment with. I have taken it apart fully, cleaned the mirrors etc to get to know them better and feel more confident with them. However, I have just realised with it's tiny 1.25" focuser, there's no way I can focus with my Sony A7iii. I can physically hand-hold the naked sensor up to the focuser tube (wheeled fully inwards closest to the mirror) without adapters and it can focus nearly touching the tube but with the adapters to attach it, it's nowhere near enough to focus. As I'm new to this, is there any possible way of getting this to work with a 2" focuser (would seem WAY to big for it) or is there a 1.25" focuser out there that does allow a camera to focus? I didn't pay much for this scope at all so don't really care what needs to be done to it like drilling new holes etc. hence why I have put this in the "DIY Astronomer" forum. Also if there really is nothing I can do, I don't mind using it as a visual scope as it's actually a lot better than I thought it would be! On a side note, I am aware of the secondary mirror being too small for the full-frame sensor and there will be heavy vignetting maybe even a bit in its crop-sensor mode and the coma will be horrific but again, this is just an experiment Any help would be much appreciated, Thanks and clear skies! Dean

For the LRGB side of things, I doubt I will be shooting colour very often (maybe a couple of times a year for M31 & M43 etc.) and like I said, I will probably just use my Sony A7iii like how I do with my current setup. I can always upgrade later if needed to be fair. I shall watch his video then 👍 there seems to be a lot of good qualities from Baader's latest filters that people usually have issues with other filters like halos, reflections etc. - Also, with this being the first time shooting NB, I'm can go with the cheaper and broader 6.5nm filters (as I believe it's easier to see the subject when lining it up etc.) hoping to upgrade to higher quality 3nm filters in the future. So just didn't want to spend too much when starting out I guess. Thanks for the advice!

Yes, I have a dew heater on my current setup as well as finder scope and autoguiding which I will transfer over. Thanks!

Hi, I started deep sky astrophotography a few years ago now and still feel fairly new to this very complex hobby (although with the UK weather, that's probably only a couple of weeks worth of actual experience 😂) and have spent the past year or so looking at upgrading my whole setup, and hope that those with more experience can see if it all sounds ok and that nothing clashes with each other or if you think that something else would work better etc. (I currently own everything I need for the autoguiding side of things) Here's what I have come up with: Scope: Explore Scientific ED APO 102mm Carbon (FL: 714mm - FR: F/7) Flattener: TS 2" 0.8x Reducer / Flattener for 100-102mm f/7 Refractors (as recommended by Astrobackyard) Mount: iOptron GEM28 (1.75" LiteRoc Tripod + iPolar) Camera: ZWO ASI 294MM-PRO (2x2 4.6um or 1x1 2.3um) NB Filters: Baader Narrow Band Filter Set - CMOS Optimised (1.25" Ha, Oiii, Sii - 6.5nm) FW: ZWO Mini EFW Extras: ZWO ASIAIR Plus - ZWO EAF - some sort of portable power supply (12v 5a) Specs: Scope - FL: 714mm @f/7 (571mm @f/5.6 with 0.8x flattener/reducer) Triplet APO FCD-100 glass Camera - M4/3 Sensor - 11.7MP, 4.63um, 14 bit, RN: 1.26e, FW: 66K, QE: 90% (2x2 bin as standard) for 102mm scope - or - 47MP, 2.3um, 12 bit, RN: 2.7e, FW: 14K, QE: 90% (un-binned) for small refractor/lens. Mount - Max Payload: 12.7kg (roughly 10kg for AP as advised by FLO) - scope with all attachments etc. comes to roughly 5.5kg Why?: Scope - I chose the scope as I love the quality to price ratio and it's wide FOV - the extra £200 for the carbon I think is a good to have with the much reduced total weight of 3.3kg! (which is handy for the lower payload mount) and it looks cool of course 😁 Flattener - I'm not sure on the flattener, there doesn't seem to be one designed specifically for the scope that's not ridiculously priced - Astrobackyard used this one when he had the same scope. Mount - I like the light weight/portability of it with it only weighing 4.5kg and can still take a large payload considering (also plenty of payload for scope/attachments). Camera - I chose this as I like the ability to be able to switch bin modes - the bigger 4.63um pixel size for the 102mm scope and smaller 2.3um for my WO Z61 and Samyang 135mm lens. It's almost like having two cameras. FW - The small filter wheel was due to only using 3x 1.25" NB filters (colour with Sony A7iii for now) and for the Samyang lens it would be better with a smaller setup. I think that's everything... as you can see, this is quite a lot of money to be spending so that's why it would help me if someone with much more experience could check before I buy everything to put my mind at rest! Thanks, Dean

Yeah I came across that and was like yay! But it comes to £1,149 after VAT. I think I'm sticking with the paying the extra and getting the ZWO ASI294MM-Pro just because I'm still quite new to this hobby as well - so I imagine with everything going to be ZWO with my setup, that should also help make things a lot easier to set up and use.

No worries, the £400 more was the price difference between the QHY and ZWO camera. Yeah the Eagle core looked good although looks like it's only for DSLR's 🙁 I think their higher range have the ability to use dedicated astro cameras but they're a LOT more money

Good point, I don't have any of the products I mentioned above yet - I'm used to using a laptop for everything (I say everything but it's purely just for PHD guiding for my ASI120MM Mini guide camera) and like the idea of just using a mobile phone for the portability. I think that decides it then, for £400 more - it's lighter, easier to set up, can connect with ASIAIR to control it all with my phone and being able to buy it from FLO Thanks for the help!

Thanks Scotty, yes that makes sense - I think my only option is to go for the ZWO camera so it can all work with each other. Unless, I could look into Primaluce Lab EAGLE CORE although looks like it's only for DSLR cameras I think - or maybe others like it if there is anything else? Just annoying having to pay £400 more for it to all work together lol

Hi, I am looking at buying either the ZWO ASI 294MM-Pro or the QHY294M Pro and need help clarifying a few things that should hopefully help make the decision. Firstly, I have read other forums and know how they are almost identical in terms of performance and I'm slightly more interested in buying the QHY camera. Here's what I can see in terms of differences: - QHY seems to have a better build quality and cheaper (£1,012 vs £1,431) although harder to initially set up apparently. - ZWO is lighter (410g vs 640g) and easier to set up/connect with other ZWO products like the ASIAIR Plus etc. - Only Modern Astronomy seems to sell QHY products in the UK whereas I prefer to buy from FLO with their outstanding reviews/support etc. (Others say ZWO has two USB's for the filter wheel although QHY does have a connection for a QHY filter wheel) Here are the questions: 1. Would ASIAIR Plus work with the QHY camera or would I need to use a laptop to control it separately (because that would be a pain) or if I can - would the controls/stats be limited? 2. Would I be able to use the QHY camera with the ZWO FW if I plug the FW into ASIAIR Plus? (I plan on buying the ZWO Mini EFW rather than the QHY FW for it's smaller size, cheapness and rather childishly because the blue doesn't match my colour scheme 😂) 3. Are there any other things I should know that I have not listed above that could change my mind like extra costs or any more differences between the two cameras etc? As usual, any help would be much appreciated! Thanks, Dean

Just had this response from FLO (who responded 15mins after contacting them!) - "Hi Dean, Thanks for getting in touch. Mount payloads only include what's on top of the mount so you ignore the counterweight side of things - in this case you can put just under 13kg of telescopes and accessories on top. For imaging there is no 'set' amount but we find most mounts are most comfortable for imaging around 2/3 or so full and with the iOptron's perhaps higher if you are very well balanced. In this case I think it would handle 10kg or so for imaging without any problems. You can probably go higher but may find you need to be even more careful with balancing and your guiding setup etc..." So that really is quite impressive for a mount of it's weight and size!

Thanks ONIKKINEN, If that's the case then that's amazing! I would like to see what a 12kg setup looks like on this because it would look very weird, it just doesn't look like it could take it let alone that 8in SCT above. I was previously told that I had to include the counterweight when measuring my setup with the SkyGuider Pro although that must be because it's star tracker where the payload ratings are without the dec bracket and counterweight - just a ball head and camera. Thanks, Dean

Hi, I just want to clarify something before buying my next mount (iOptron GEM28). https://www.ioptron.com/product-p/g281b1.htm On iOptron's website, it states the max payload of the GEM28 is "28 lbs (12.7kg), exclude counterweight". So I'm guessing that with it's 4.5kg counterweight attached, the max payload is then 8.2kg? So for my soon to be 6kg setup (scope, camera, guider etc) this will be ok. I then came across a forum on Cloudy Nights reviewing this mount... They say their setup weighs a total of "9kg. Which is 70% of max payload". He also has two 4.5kg weights (9kg). So would it not be a case of a total weight of 18kg on the mount (5.3kg over the max payload)? Or am I wrong to include the counterweights in the total weight? I currently have an iOptron Skyguider Pro with a max payload of 5kg. My current setup comes to 3.7kg (excluding counterweight) the counterweight weighs 1.35kg which together adds up to just over 5kg. I know it definitely can't take more as it struggles with exposures over 2mins (guided) which makes sense. But to say it could take 1.35kg more seems crazy. Not sure if this is different with a star tracker though so though I'd check with everyone else. Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks, Dean