Zermelo

Well, the conclusion was that last night (25th) was showing a similar forecast (high cloud only, starting from about 23.00) but I went out anyway and didn't see a trace of cloud until I finished at a quarter to 2! Brilliant night.

This is my third report, the first time having had a bit of good fortune, the second time out having had a reverse and found very little of what I was looking for. Armed with a few tips from members of this forum and some learning points of my own, I start setting up at 22.30. It’s still far from dark, but some patterns now showing above. A little low cloud on the horizon, forecast is for some high cloud moving in from 23.00. I’ve planned a target list in two parts for tonight. First part is objects I’ve seen before but my other half hasn’t (she has to be in work tomorrow and will be staying out for the first act only). I need to be able to find these quickly. The rest of the list is objects I’ve yet to find, which I can take my time over after she’s retired. By 11 I’m aligned and I can see enough to find the first target by eye – nu Draconis. While the contrasting doubles get the plaudits, there’s something to be said for such a perfectly symmetrical pair, in brightness and colour. Next I switch to beta Lyrae, again an easy enough find by eye (though my partner remarks kindly at the speed of operation). A nice contrast to the Draco pair, obviously different mags, and we argue about the colours for a while. Then on to Albireo, which she has heard much about, and seems impressed by, even in the twilight. Again we discuss colours. I’ve left the fuzzies until later, and I now pick out M13 surprisingly quickly. In our 70mm at x27 it’s only a smudge, though as on previous evenings, averted vision does suggest some speckling. I try adding a 2x barlow, which I’ve not done before, and am surprised to see now some differentiation – a slightly denser core. Partner’s eyes are a bit astigmatic, but she does see it too. Pushing it now, I head back to Lyra for M57. The sky isn’t as dark as when I (just barely) saw it before, but we try. I can just get beta and gamma into view in my widest EP, so somewhere in the middle. I flick my eye about as I did last time, and catch it again. I try to describe the procedure to my other half, and after a few minutes, she says she does too. I would have bet against that one, but the last item on list A is one I haven’t even found myself before – the Dumbbell – and it will take some finding. Learning from last time, I’ve ditched the Mag-7 Star Atlas Project maps - pretty though they were, I just couldn’t read them in the dark. Instead, I have printed a selection from the Michael Vlasov atlas (also plugged on this forum) which are larger on each A4 page. The other thing I have realized is that my hopping technique was flawed (or non-existent). I was either just finding a known starting point and then sweeping in the direction indicated by the chart, and hoping to spot the target in the EP, or else I was trying to use the finder but “giving up” too soon and switching to EP view when I thought I was in the general vicinity of the target. The problem with approach 1 is that for a faint target, with a small scope in polluted skies, you could pass right over it and not spot it. The problem with approach 2 is that a refractor pointing upwards (hence with star diagonal) reflects up-down and left-right so if you switch to your EP before you have your target in field, a beginner is going to struggle making that last hop from the chart. Whereas my finder gives a true view. This makes good sense now, but I needed to spend a cold, fruitless evening at the EP to realize it. So for M27, softly softly – there’s nothing especially close and naked eye that I can use. So I start at Albireo, nudge a little down and northwards with the slow-mos, then check in the finder against the chart. I’m just looking to match a pattern of the new stars now in view, and I can see one. I repeat the process. It still works, this is great. I’m amazed that this tiny, plastic 6x30 is delivering the goods. I can now see a star in my finder that I can see on the chart is right next to the Dumbbell. I adjust the scope a last time to centre on where the chart says it should be (and I know that actually M27 is pretty big). And only now do I switch to the low-power eyepiece. OK, I must have knocked my finder alignment out slightly during the evening, but a slight correction and there it is, in all its glorious smudginess. Extra mag doesn’t make much difference; I can see structure alright, but I can’t honestly say I can see the apple core, certainly not as good as the (full colour!) sample illustration in my Bresser instruction manual. But I don’t care, it’s M27, it’s another first, and I found it the proper way. It’s gone midnight now and my other half wishes me luck and heads off to bed. Before I look at the second half of the list, I take a breather and have a look at the sky. It’s actually not that bad, considering we’ve now officially lost astro dark. It looks perhaps better than last time I was out – I could see the milky way behind Cygnus then, but now I see it extending across the eastern sky well into Ophiuchus, and I can see bands of light and dark structure. It’s going to be interesting to see if this is maintained when lockdown is over. Back to the list, and I yet again try to split delta Herculis, without success. This will definitely be the last time until I get a bigger scope. Then to another double, kappa Bootis. I’ve found iota previously, and looked for kappa twice, but failed. That was before I used my finder properly though. So let’s start from lambda, work up to theta, then I recognize the field from the chart. Again, the finder’s slightly off, but there’s certainly a double in the EP, with a companion noticeably fainter. To be sure I haven’t found iota again by mistake, I quickly slew to compare with Mizar (which I know has almost the same separation). Tick. Another previous escapee, psi1 Draconis. This one is a bit trickier and I end up doing three or four separate hops, having to start again at one point. But I do find it, a nice pair at 30”, the brighter one seems slightly whiter to me. The tail end of the list has some clusters: M10/M12 in Ophiuchus, M92 in Hercules and M4 in Scorpius. A bit frustratingly, I realize that these are either now behind houses, or else dead vertical, and after a few minutes trying the starhopping procedure in a painful crouched position (BUY THAT NEWT) I decide I’m far enough in credit now to call it a night. It's nearly two.

Thanks for that steer on Sky Safari, I'll certainly check that out. I am currently using a combination of a planisphere and Stellarium to orient myself, and printed charts for detail. I have just ordered a Telrad though, which seems a great idea in principle. Sky Safari appears to come in three versions for different prices - would I need at least the "plus" version to get the star hopping capability?

Glad you saw some stuff Neil, I'm obviously not hard core! I think if the forecast stays the same tonght I'll stay up.

Yes, that's a fair point - it could be 75% cloud but thin stuff, and my kit isn't going to see many DSOs in the first place so I'm mainly looking for doubles and clusters.

I had a finely balanced decision to make yesterday about whether to stay up and attempt a post-midnight astro dark session, factors including: - BBC/Met Office forecast was "clear all night" - BBC/Met Office forecasts have been woefully innaccurate, both day and night - Clearoutside was forecasting clear early evening, but later on it had "0% low cloud" and "75% high cloud" cover - Lack of moon - My other half is somewhat keen, but I didn't want to keep her up that long for a potential damp squib - It's very late, and not dark for that long - There look to be one, perhaps two more clear nights forecast in the coming week - I have a new eyepiece and filter arriving soon 😀 I decided not to wait up, and instead charged my batteries for a possible session this coming week. I see in the observing reports this morning that at least some UK people did have clear skies, so I am a bit regretful. I've only started observing in the last couple of months, so I may have been spoiled by the number of good evenings we have been having? Looking back at some of the older comments, I see people wishing they'd never bought their scopes, after fifty or sixty days without sight of a star! Anyway, to my question. Was I unwise to be put off by the Clearoutside prediction of "75% high cloud"? I mean, leaving aside the obvious possibility that they might be wrong anyway, Is there any difference in the effect on observation between low, medium and high cloud? Would you take one more seriously than another? I noticed that the "visibility" line was still saying 10 miles (the highest it ever seems to say) even when cloud cover was 75%. Is that significant? Tonight is looking very similar!

My second report, quite different from the first. In fact, I almost didn’t bother writing it up, then I thought it might be some comfort to any other beginners who luck out on a nice evening! I didn’t venture outside until 23.30 (small refractor, minimal setup time) as clearoutside.com was showing astro twilight after midnight now. ISS drifts over at 23.44 as I check the eastern half of the sky, where I have been concentrating. Cygnus is already above the haze, and I’m guessing I can now see bits of Libra and Aquila above the horizon; and Scorpius? Maybe. I’ve made another list of objects I’ve not yet seen – doubles and clusters. I start with delta Herculis, which I found previously but failed to split. And it’s the same result tonight. However I’m not so surprised this time, as in the interim I’ve noted that while the separation (12.4”) is comfortably within the capacity of my 70mm, the companion in this case is only mag 8.3, so the combination may be asking too much of my £29.99 LIDL special. Onwards and upwards – literally, to psi Draconis high overhead (if I consider anything other than a Newtonian for my next buy, please shoot me). Earlier, in the comfort of the living room, it had looked easy to navigate to this 4.6/5.6 pair from the nearby, slightly brighter, chi Draconis, which has about the same declination. After an extended period of crouching, squinting and fumbling, I decide it is perhaps not so easy, and have to give up and stretch my joints. At least this target is circumpolar and will probably succumb on some other night. Perhaps kappa Bootis will oblige? Another escapee from a previous evening, it lies close to another double, iota (which I have split before). Bootes is now high and working southwards. Slewing the scope to its northern end, I find it resisting my push, and realize it’s a problem I encounter now and again – the tube fouls on one of the slow-mo controls, which means there is a patch of sky I can’t access – just the patch where I want to be right now. I have never gotten around to investigating whether there is a way around this (assuming that I want to stay polar aligned of course) – is this what is called “crossing the meridian” or is that something else? Anyway, Bootes is out of bounds until the sky has rotated a bit. So, not good so far – 0/3 ! I feel I now need a bit of encouragement, so I drop the list for a while. Cygnus is high enough that it’s worth another look at Albireo. I try it with a range of eyepieces: a 26mm plossl, a 15.8mm orthoscopic, then both of these with a 2x barlow, and finally with a 6.3mm plossl (the last giving slightly over 100x which adds nothing and loses much). It’s interesting that the orthoscopic shows a tight ring around both components (which I assume are diffraction rings?) and a bit of a faint ‘haze’ around both, which it does with all stars and I assume is an aberration. The 26mm (with or without the barlow) shows no rings and no haze, having a nice, black field making a pleasing frame for the yellow and blue stars. OK, back to the list. M5 Rose Cluster in Serpens Caput. I have some brief starhopping instructions jotted down and had printed off a new chart earlier in the day. Unfortunately, it is rather small and difficult to read in the garden. From memory, I identify the relevant stars in Serpens and track across, but without success. Also on the list as possibles are M10 and M12 in Ophiuchus – I try scanning for those with binoculars instead, in the absence of any obvious guide stars. No joy. Time to switch to something I can find a bit more easily. M29 is an open cluster near gamma Cygni, which is a pretty site in my widest eyepiece (and seen for the first time), perhaps diminished only by being set against the milky way rather than an empty sky. While Looking at Cygnus, I notice that the milky way is visible tonight. I couldn’t see it at all on the 14th, which I thought was as good a night as we were ever going to get here (neither had a moon). The seeing also seems to be better than it was on the 14th – the images in the scope seem to be rock steady. Another cluster on the list, also not seen before, is M92 in Hercules. Again, apparently an easy navigation from the armchair, but not so twelve hours later. My plan had been to find iota Herculis, then track across towards eta in the keystone, which (almost) passes through M92. I do find iota OK, but never find the cluster. Starting to doubt my vision by this point, I see if I can find M13 – and do so immediately. Although I have seen this before, it has only been a fuzzy patch in my modest 70 mil. This time, I try glancing at it with averted vision and I’m pleased to detect the tiniest speckles in the fuzz which, to retrieve a depressing evening, I decide are individual stars rather than artefacts of failing eyesight. It’s now nearly 1 a.m. and I’m wondering if Bootes has moved far enough for me to attempt kappa again, but as I glance southwards I see a massive bank of cloud has swallowed up a quarter of the sky. To the northwest there are also wisps and before long it’s time to pack up. So, not a productive evening, but some valuable lessons. Planning needs to be better. Printed charts need to be clearer, and annotated for every target. I think I’ll laminate them, then I can draw on them and re-use them. Think more clearly in advance about how you’re going to get around the sky. Some of the manoeuvres are either too vaguely specified or too ambitious for the stars visible/scope capabilities. I need to investigate starhopping techniques!

I'll offer my thoughts as a new starter with a small refractor, though you already have more experienced comments. I have a cheap 70/700 (sounds like the same one Cosmic Geoff mentions above) - a Bresser Skylux that LIDL occasionally feature. Although very cheap, it does have an EQ mount that looks more substantial than any of the three you point out (there's an item on it here: https://stargazerslounge.com/topic/199746-bresser-eq-mount-motor-drive/ although Bresser have also supplied the same scope on alt-az mounts that look less good. It's probably worth more than what I paid for the whole scope and easily capable of taking the weight, but still limited in terms of precision (apparently can even be retro-fitted for motor drive). The tripod is steel and no better than you'd expect for a low-end scope, and I do find it wobbly. The objective is, of course, achromat not apo but I've been pleasantly surprised by the sharpness right across the field and the colour aberration hasn't been too bad (I have read that you can get some variation in these Bressers, so perhaps I got a "good" one) - however, I was only able to come to this conclusion once I'd given up on the dire Kellner eyepieces it came with and bought a couple of half decent ones. As you're already started, I assume this won't be an issue for you. The main limitation for me is the aperture. How dark are your skies? Mine aren't great, so an 80mm might have been a better start for me. Would it be worth the extra expense and weight?

RH323, you're right that it couldn't have been comet Swan, nor could it have been any comet if it was moving noticeably - comets follow paths around the sun and so they don't appear to move against the background stars to the naked eye, only very slowly, as do the planets. Can you give any more information? You say about baseball size, but a baseball held how far away? Or better, can you compare it with the size of a celestial object like the full moon? Can you describe the speed, or say for how long it was visible? Did it have a noticeable colour?

A great list, some things I hadn't thought about as a new observer. Another thing I have noticed is how difficult it is to see some colours under a red LED headlight (star charts, books, planispheres ...) so I've taken to trying them out in advance in the downstairs loo - and then making substitutions or adjustments as necessary. For example I have three planispheres and I found they vary quite a bit in their visibility under red.

Thanks for the comments, all. I'm just starting to work my way through this great resource and I can see there's a wealth of experience here. If I get to feeling that I'm hitting the buffers with the 70mm, then perhaps I'll use the summer to shape up my (currently very conflicted) ideas about where to go next kitwise, and hope to get some input here.

First report from me. Lifelong armchair enthusiast, but only started to observe properly this year. I have decided to learn the basics with a cheap 70mm F/10 refractor before spending any serious money. I live on the outskirts of a small town, back garden is limited to about mag 5 naked eye, even in these amazing skies we’ve been having in lockdown. I skipped the last couple of clear nights because of the moon, so decided to stay up for this one and made up a mixed list of a few easier objects I hadn’t seen yet. Venus was almost set as I went out, so I let that go. My scope has no drive but it does have a German mount, so I do find it worth polar aligning at the start, saves me fiddling with one of the two slow-mos later on. By the time I’ve done that, the sky is darkening and I can see how much the constellations have moved since I was out last – quite a bit. On previous nights I’ve been focused mainly on the East and North-East, but I can see how far to the South Leo has now moved, while in its place Bootes and Hercules are now high and distinct, and there is a jumble of less obvious shapes beneath them that I know must be Ophiuchus and Serpens. To the North-East, Lyra is now higher than before behind Hercules, and Cygnus is now making an appearance through the light pollution. This familiarity comes as a pleasant surprise – I could always pick out half a dozen of the brightest isolated constellations, mostly winter ones, but never able to scan across the sky like this. I don’t think you can learn it from charts alone, you need horizons and reference points, and you need repeated observing sessions like this to see the changes. Before full dark, I start the list with the double stars. First up is nu Draconis. Draco was one of those constellations I had always assumed I could never even make out before this year, but now I find it quite easily snaking around the Little Bear. I identify the “head” and line up on the star – nothing. Strange, as it should be very wide at 62”. I check again, wrong star! I re-align, and there it is, very nice in a 26mm plossl. Two very white components, I can’t tell any difference in colour or magnitude, as it should be. Next, beta Lyrae. The sky is dark enough now that I can make out the four stars below Vega by eye. I can just get both of the lower two into my finder at the same time, so it’s easy to identify and line up beta, and then check again in the 26mm – yes, it’s double. I also try it with a 15.8mm orthoscopic, but there's not much to choose between them. This is still very wide at 45”. Both components are white, but this time one is much fainter. Feeling confident, I now try delta Herculis, apparently separated at 12.4”. This should still be comfortable for my kit (only a bit tighter than Mizar) and it’s easy enough to find delta, but I can see only one star. Odd. OK, what about kappa Herculis? I can’t identify it with my eye, but I’ve noted down some instruction about “following down one leg and then carrying on about the same distance”. I spend a little time manually shunting the scope while scanning with the 26mm eyepiece, and get lucky – there it is. A wideish pair, one slightly brighter and possibly more yellow? Nice. By now, Cygnus is just about out of the low haze so I might as well have a go at Albireo for my first time, and it does not disappoint. A brighter, yellow main with a dimmer blue companion. It will be worth returning to this one on another time when it is higher. It’s almost midnight now and as dark as it’s going to get, so I try to assess the conditions (this is one aspect I hope to get better at – I realize I have previously contented myself with “aren’t the stars good tonight?”). I found a guide on the astroleague website that uses criteria to rate Transparency and Seeing. For transparency, I would say 6 out of 7, on the grounds that I could see all the stars in the Little Dipper, but not any surrounding ones. For Seeing, I’d say probably "Very Good": I didn’t notice twinkling with the naked eye, but I did experience a little jumping in the eyepiece at higher magnifications. Now with the sky dark, I turn to another first attempt – the Ring Nebula. Obviously I know where it ought to be, back to beta Lyrae in my finder, and line up half way between beta and gamma, then switch to – which eyepiece? I knew it was small, but also dim, so I couldn’t push the mag much with my limited aperture. I try it with the 15.8mm and see only background stars. I wait, and flick my eye around the field. There. Yes – no – yes. With averted vision only, and small, but definitely identified. I try adding a barlow, but as I suspected, blowing it up washes it out completely. Another time, a darker place, a bigger bucket. But still very pleasing. Confidence in the little scope now abounding, I turn it vertically for an attempt on M82. I had failed to find this previously on a very clear evening, but this time I had a different star-hopping approach – a diagonal line through gamma and alpha in Ursa Major, the same distance further on should just about do it. I’m not even using my finder now, just lining it up straight down the barrel. The temperature has plummeted now and my fingers are numb. Back to the 26mm eyepiece, and some manual shunting around the sky. Stop – were those two fuzzy patches in the field at the same time? Just then, a neighbour switches on their bedroom light and floods my view. Cursing, I lock both axes, wait for the light to go off, and hope to find the same view when I return. I do. I play with the slow-mo’s while my eyes re-adapt, convincing myself that there is something there. And they become a little more distinct, though only blotches. But I can see that the left hand one is more elongate and the other is more rounded, and in the rounded one I can – just – detect slightly more density in the middle than the edge. So there it is, M82 with a bonus of M81. Time to call it a successful night, and rescue my fingers.