Louis D

With all the discussions about the Meade MWA 26mm being a possible 90° apparent field of view (AFOV) eyepiece with long eye relief, I thought it might be worth a try.  Despite the virus slowdowns in retailing, I was able to receive my new eyepiece within a week of ordering it.  It comes packed in a nice, large, black box with sturdy, closed cell foam cut/molded to fit the eyepiece.  The eyepiece itself comes in a zip-close bag with a microfiber cleaning cloth.  There are no printed inserts included in the box.

Exterior

The eyepiece itself is nice and hefty, but lighter than its bulk would belie at 786 grams or 27.7 ounces by my scale.  That makes it just slightly heavier than the much more compact Tele Vue Nagler T4 17mm.  The grip ring is nice and broad and makes the eyepiece easy to hold securely.  The top lens cap stays on securely due to the ribbing on the inside of the eye cup (which is on the outside when folded down to fit the lens cap on).  It comes off without a fuss when needed and has a small vent hole.  The bottom lens cap is very rubbery and almost has to be scraped off with fingernails to remove it.  It's super air tight and sometimes requires "burping" it to get the trapped air out so it doesn't bulge outward in storage.  The fairly short eye cup flips up and down easily but stays up when pressed around an eye socket.  Overall, I found the eyepiece quite handsome and functional.

The field lens is 10mm from the bottom edge of the lower barrel and slightly concave, so I've never worried about marring or damaging it because it is too close to the bottom.  I tried my only 2" filter, a 1990s Lumicon OIII, and it screwed into the bottom threads multiple turns until secure.  It came off just as easily.  The safety undercut on the black insertion barrel is fairly shallow.  No hang-up issues with focuser compression rings were noted over multiple nights with multiple focusers, coma correctors, and Barlows.

The eye lens is recessed about 4mm (more on this later) and is 35mm in diameter, about the same diameter as a Pentax XW for reference.  The multicoatings appear mostly greenish.  Lens and interior blackening and baffling appears to be good, but certainly not inky black great.

The following image shows the box exterior and interior, the eyepiece with caps and without caps with the eye cup flipped up, and the eye lens and field lens recessions.

 

Eye Relief

The manufacturer claims 25mm of eye relief.  I measured 10mm of usable eye relief (ER) where the exit pupil converges to the tightest circle via light projection, which is still pretty broad compared to competitive wide field designs.  If I measured when the inner white circle reached its smallest size before blurring out of existence (something I've only ever seen before on eyepieces with SAEP like the Meade 4000 UWA 14mm smoothie), it was 17mm of ER.  In use, to see most of the field easily, it felt closer to the 17mm ER value.  It is enough that I did not need to push my eyeglasses against the top to see the field.  Thus, given the relatively flat eye lens and 4mm recession of it, there's about 21mm of design eye relief for the easily viewed field.  That's not the advertised 25mm ER, but it's relatively close.

However, the entire apparent field of view cannot be seen at 17mm ER, but can be seen in peripheral vision at 10mm ER.  I had to remove my eyeglasses and press in really hard into the flipped up eye cup to perceive the field stop.  Based on this and the closeness of the camera lens to the top of the eyepiece to take in the entire field during my photographing of the AFOV, I feel confident that the actual usable eye relief is closer to 10mm to take in the entire field stop defined view all at once.  With eye lens recession, that works out to 14mm of design ER which is not at all close to the advertised 25mm ER.

SAEP

This large discrepancy in usable eye reliefs can probably be attributed to the eyepiece's greatest fault, massive spherical aberration of the exit pupil (SAEP) or kidney beaning.  If you keep your eye back at the 17mm or longer eye relief distance, it is fairly easy to deal with the SAEP, but the outer edge of the field is obscured.  If the user pushes in to take in the entire field, kidney beaning takes over the majority of the field of view obscuring all but a circle in the center and a ring around the edge if the eye is perfectly centered (see the MWA's full view in the images to see this effect).  If the eye is allowed to drift off center, various hemispheres of the view become visible while the opposite hemisphere goes black.  The effect is incredibly annoying and disappointing.  Even when fully dark adapted, there is no getting around this eyepiece's SAEP.

CAEP

I looked for chromatic aberration of the exit pupil (CAEP) which leads to the "ring of fire" as seen in the TV Nagler T5 31mm and ES-82 30mm eyepieces.  I could not detect any appreciable red-orange ring in the outer reaches of the FOV during daytime use.  I did see that the exit pupil was a blue edged circle further out from the tightest exit pupil circle and red edged on the other side of it.  The amount, though, was much less than in my ES-82 30mm.  Therefore, CAEP might be there in modest amounts that are difficult to detect visually.

AFOV

Next up is the controversial claim of a 100° AFOV by Meade.  On it's face, this usually refers to the field seen by the eye when looking into the eyepiece.  However, as has been reported elsewhere by others, the entire MWA line fails to deliver on this claim.  Most folks report an approximately 90° AFOV, which would still be quite respectable at this price point and eye relief amount.  I carefully measured the AFOV with projection and got a value of 83°.

When using photographic techniques to arrive at the AFOV, it is also 83° to the field stop with loads of SAEP.  There are only 79° of AFOV visible if the camera is positioned at the point at which SAEP starts to appear.  The true field stop has the characteristic blue ring of most modern wide field eyepieces.  The false field stop at 79° when the eye is pulled back to avoid SAEP is a very slightly fuzzy black ring.  The camera's "easy" view of 79° in the images pretty closely resembles what I see with my eye when SAEP starts to manifest itself, so I feel confident going with that value for the usable AFOV.  To see the true field stop, it feels like you have to peek under the ledge formed by the false field stop at 79°.  It's only 2° lost around the entire circumference, but it seems much larger and rather frustrating in practice.

This image compares the AFOVs of eyepieces with similar ultrawide angle (UWA) AFOVs from my eyepiece collection.

Field Stop Diameter

I measured the effective field stop (FS) diameter and got a value of 41mm true FS to true FS.  It is about 38mm at the 79° easy viewing position.  If you back calculate AFOV using the 41mm FS value, you get an effective AFOV (eAFOV) of 90°.  This is due to edge compression cramming more into the edge of the AFOV than equal angular magnification would otherwise indicate (more on this later in the discussion section).  The eAFOV for the easily viewed 38mm FS value is 84°.

This image compares the field stop diameters of eyepieces with similar FSs from my eyepiece collection.

Under the Stars

Enough about the eyepiece's specifications, how does it view the night sky in a telescope?  I spent several nights using the MWA in my 8" f/6 Dobsonian with a properly spaced GSO coma corrector and 90mm TS-Optics Photoline f/6.6 FPL53 Triplet APO with a properly spaced TSFLAT2 flattener.

In the central 30% of the MWA, the view was as good as through the best of my other eyepieces with these scopes.  On axis, this eyepiece provides a nice view of star fields with pinpoint stars and a dark background with no obnoxious pincushion distortion off axis to deal with during panning.  There is a slight compression of objects at the edge that is hard to perceive while looking at the center.  Beyond the central 30%, there is a noticeable blurring of stars and lunar details unless the eye is aligned to look straight at that part of the field of view.  In fact, if you can crank your head over far enough to just take in the edge in direct vision, it is nearly sharp to the FS while the rest of the field blacks out due to SAEP.  Only the last few degrees show trace astigmatism that is no worse than that at the edge of a TV Nagler T4 22mm

It has good control of stray light from bright objects inside and just outside of the FOV, and no visible chromatic aberration anywhere in the field other than the typical thin yellow/purple fringe on the edge of the moon seen in some of my best eyepieces as well.  It is also very close to being flat of field.  From 50% outward, a tiny bit of refocusing slightly improves the image.  It is flatter than the T4 Naglers, but not as flat as the ES-82 30mm, ES-92s and APM UFF 30mm.  I also could not perceive any edge of field brightening (EOFB) in either dark skies or with the moon in or near the FOV.

In the Dob, a coma corrector is necessary to yield a sharp field stop in the MWA.  Without it, the edge of field is blurry once you push far enough in to see it.  I've seen this in other eyepieces, although I can't remember which at the moment, so it's not unique to the MWA.

I did not measure focus point, but it came to focus relatively close to my other eyepieces that focus at or near the eyepiece's shoulder.  There was no need to massively refocus when using the MWA with other eyepieces, which is probably why I didn't think to measure it.

See my discussion section at the end for more thoughts/rants on viewing with this eyepiece.

Conclusion

As long as the observer keeps the object on axis and uses the rest of the field for context, this eyepiece easily keeps up with some of the best wide field eyepieces available today.  It's when the object is allowed to drift from edge to edge that the eyepiece's shortcomings due to SAEP become all too apparent.  The 4mm eye lens recession actually works to the eyeglass wearer's advantage because it keeps the user from drifting in too close and revealing the severe SAEP.  The raised eye cup works in a similar manner to maintain proper distancing for non-eyeglass wearers.

On net, this is a good eyepiece for eyeglass wearers who desire a UWA level experience in the 24mm to 27mm range and have the desire to simply scan star fields or strictly observe on axis and use the outer field simply for context in peripheral vision.  It is not a good choice for studying objects as they drift across the FOV in undriven scopes.  I would classify it somewhere close to a 79° Morpheus 26mm with minor SAEP but with the added outer field unsharpness issue unless the user precisely aligns their eye/head.  It is definitely not a 26mm ES-92 or Nagler T4 as some have wished for or hypothesized it to be.  For non-eyeglass wearers, there are probably better options out there such as the ES-100 25mm, Nagler T5 26mm, and ES-82 24mm.

Comparison Images

I have included three images for review (two were included earlier) along with a beauty pic for each group (top to bottom AFOVs correspond to left to right exterior views).  The third image included here compares the AFOVs of eyepieces in my collection having focal lengths similar to the MWA.

 

All AFOV images were taken through an Astro Tech 72ED telescope with a properly spaced TSFLAT2 field flattener and then composited together in Photoshop.  The objective to target distance was approximately 35 feet for all images.  All sub-images in the first two images were taken with a superwide angle LG G5 phone camera.  All the sub-images except those marked "full" in the third image were taken with the narrower angle, but higher resolution, Samsung Galaxy S7 phone camera.  The "full" images in that third image were taken with the G5 and then scaled up to match the central image scale of the S7 images so the entire field of view can be compared for eyepieces exceeding the approximately 76° angle of view limit of the S7 (corner to corner).

The edge images were also taken with the S7 camera, but pointed straight at the edge to best capture the true edge sharpness that would be experienced by looking straight at the edge with the eye.  Notice that the edges of the MWA image seen while looking at the center (main middle image) is blurrier than the view when looking straight at the edges.  The exact same effect is seen with the eye as described earlier.

Discussion

It gets interesting when comparing this eyepiece to the ES-100 25mm eyepiece which has been measured by others to have a true AFOV of 103° and a claimed effective field stop diameter of 41mm by the manufacturer, which I have no reason to doubt.  Thus, I wonder if Meade reasoned that since this 26mm eyepiece has basically the same effective field stop diameter and thus same true field of view (TFOV) as the ES-100 25mm eyepiece, it must also be a 100° AFOV eyepiece.  However, the ES-100 25mm actually delivers a true 100° AFOV experience while this eyepiece does not.

How can we reconcile the Meade MWA 26mm and ES-100 25mm to have vastly different AFOVs and yet the same TFOV when they differ by only 1mm in focal length?  As mentioned earlier, AFOV edge magnification distortion is the reason.  The ES-100, like most Nagler and Ethos class eyepieces has increasing magnification as the edge is approached.  This stretches double stars apart and stretches the moon into an egg shape with the major axis aligned radially.  The Meade MWA has just the opposite, decreasing magnification as you approach the edge.  Double stars get closer together and the moon gets squashed into an oval shape with the major axis being tangentially aligned.  Thus, it compresses the ES-100 25mm's 100° AFOV into a mere 83°!  It's actually a pretty impressive feat when you think about it.  I've seen a similar effect with some fisheye lens attachments that favor the size of the image in the center by compressing the edges to continue to achieve a 180° image circle despite a lack of equal angular magnification across the field.

Despite all this comparative TFOV reasoning, I still won't let Meade off the hook on their 100° AFOV claim.  It's really only an 83° AFOV eyepiece at best, and more realistically, due to SAEP, a 79° AFOV eyepiece, putting it in the same league as Naglers, ES-82s, and other ultrawide angle (UWA) eyepieces.  In this respect, it competes more directly with the discontinued TV Nagler T5 26mm and the ES-82 24mm than with the ES-100 25mm.  The MWA does have more usable eye relief than any of these other eyepieces, but it has horrific amounts of SAEP that those others don't seem to have according to all the reports I've read on them.  It does have that wide effective field stop (FS) to it's credit, though, thanks to its decreasing magnification as the edge is approached.  In comparison, the Nagler 26mm has a 35mm FS while the ES-82 24mm has a 33.5mm FS.  Even the easy to take in 38mm FS at 79° is wider in the MWA 26mm than either of these two.

In use, the MWA shows a lot of the sky at once at a moderately higher power than in a 30mm to 40mm eyepiece with a similar FS diameter.  This was probably the greatest advantage of this eyepiece.  The MWA's eAFOV values of either 90° or 84° are actually quite respectable compared to the NT5 26mm's 77° eAFOV and the ES-100 25mm's 94° eAFOV.

This might be the only saving grace of this eyepiece.  It does deliver a wide TFOV at 26mm, rivaling that of the ES-100 25mm, but with enough eye relief for eyeglass wearers to comfortably enjoy the view.  Is this enough to forgive Meade's dubious AFOV claim?  I don't think so.  They hurt themselves by making these claims that simply can't be backed up by measurements.  Too many purchasers rightfully expect an Ethos or ES-100 level experience when Meade claims a 100° AFOV in their advertising only to be disappointed that they're actually getting a UWA level experience.  It's still an impressive experience, but definitely not in the same league.

The level of edge to edge correction would be quite an achievement were it not for the head/eye acrobatics necessary to take in such a sharp view.  In contrast, the 72° AFOV of the APM Ultra Flat Field 30mm is sharp edge to edge while looking at the center.  Looking directly at any point in the field shows no quirky blurriness that only careful eye positioning can eliminate as in the MWA.  The same is true with the ES-92 17mm.  It's all good, all the time, everywhere.  All I can figure is that due to the MWA's massive SAEP, not all ray bundles come in at the same angle as you scan across the field, necessitating realigning the head/eye combination to correctly admit them into the eye's entrance pupil.

This is not that big of a deal when viewing star fields while keeping the observer's attention in the center.  The blurriness is mostly in peripheral vision, so it is hard to perceive.  However, watching the moon drift across the FOV in an undriven 8" f/6 Dob is tiring and almost headache inducing trying to find the best viewing angle at each point in the journey.  This is especially problematic because the moon is wide enough that the edge closest to the FS and the edge closest to the axis require different eye/head positioning than the central part of the moon for best sharpness.  Thus, the entire moon cannot be seen sharply all at once anywhere except on axis.  As such, this eyepiece cannot be recommended for lunar observing in undriven scopes.  I would stick with the APM UFF 30mm, NT4 22mm, or ES-92 17mm if longer eye relief and a wide AFOV is desired.  Even the 63° AFOV of the 24mm APM UFF was far more enjoyable than the MWA's 79° easily usable AFOV when viewing the moon in the Dob with eyeglasses.

Am I happy with my purchase?  I would have to answer with a qualified yes.  The 79° "easy to view" field is eminently usable with eyeglasses and the view in the central 30% is among the sharpest I've seen in any wide field eyepiece.  However, the SAEP and quirky eye/head alignment issues make it tiring to use off axis for anything longer than a brief look.  It's a bit overpriced by about 30% right now for what it is.

I have limited in focus with my Newtonian, and I can achieve DSLR prime focus by screwing the optics section of my GSO/Revelation coma corrector (with a 25mm spacer ring) directly into the T-ring via an M48 to T-thread adapter.  It works as a weak Barlow at 1.10x to extend focus and also flattens the field while correcting coma.  I used it to take this photo of the 2016 Mercury solar transit.

4 hours ago, DeathWarpedUp said:

Thank you both.

Still looking, however based on both your comments regarding a little more is better than a little less im still researching and starting to think about the Altair 30 as an option, some nice write ups and the cost is a smidge nicer

The Altair 30mm Ultraflat, of which I have the APM UFF version, is exceptionally sharp in my f/12 127 Mak.

Isn't this it in Germany?  Teleskop Service claims to have it in stock.  Have you contacted them directly to verify availability and found out otherwise?

I can't help you there as I don't do DSO photography.  All I can say is that Barlows are generally used to increase magnification for solar system imaging where there is plenty of light.  DSO imaging is mostly about getting the most photons from dim objects in the shortest amount of time to keep exposure times shorter and image noise at bay.  Adding magnification without increasing aperture sort of defeats this goal.

49 minutes ago, jamesj01 said:

okay brilliant so to do this i juts focus the telescope as i would normally with the barlow lense attached?

Yes.  I don't know what type of camera you have.  If it's a DSLR, you'll need a 1.25" to T-mount adapter that fits in the Barlow in place of an eyepiece and a T-ring for your particular camera's mount that screws onto the other end of the adapter and then attaches to your camera mount's opening on its other end.  If your Barlow already has a T-thread around the top, you can skip the adapter and just attach the T-ring directly.

Thus, the T to 1.25" adapter shown above could have Barlow optics in it already.

14 minutes ago, jamesj01 said:

@Alien 13 sorry i am new to this all - is it better to use a barlow lens or prime focuser instead of an eyepiece when taking photos of DSOs?

Yes, as long as you can reach focus with prime focus.  Reaching focus won't be an issue for Barlow projection.

There's the TV Panoptic 41mm, TV Nagler T5 31mm, and TV Ethos 21mm for widest viewing at various magnifications, money no object.

There's the ES-68 40mm, ES-82 30mm, and ES-100 20mm for somewhat less money and somewhat less well corrected views.

There's the Maxvision 40mm and Meade 5000 40mm SWAs if you can find them used.  There's also the Meade 5000 UWA 30mm and Celestron Axiom LX 31mm at 82 degrees if you can find them used.  The APM XWA HDC 100 degree 20mm is also well reviewed.

At f/10, many of the sub-$100 70 to 80 degree 30mm to 40mm SWA eyepieces out there would probably work just fine.

For cheap, pick up a 50mm to 56mm Plossl for widest field viewing, but not widest apparent field of view (AFOV).

How would you get your fingers in there to tighten it with fat 1.25" eyepieces that overhang quite a bit?  I had to swap out the short thumbscrew for a longer one on one of my adapters because it was so short and had such a wide knurled head that it kept some of my eyepieces from seating level.

My original Telrad from 1998 worked well until the batteries corroded and somehow destroyed the rest of the unit despite splicing in a fresh battery holder.  It had a nice, smoothly increasing brightness when it was working.

I recently bought two used Telrads of much more recent vintage, and both behave as you describe.  They only turn on in the last few degrees of travel.  I would have to conclude that the potentiometer was changed out for a different unit over the past 15 to 20 years.

For everyone who chimed in to say theirs is working fine, in what year did you purchase your Telrad new?

1 hour ago, markleton said:

So, the second part of my post... If anyone has recommendations for 8mm, I'd really appreciate it.

At 8mm, I don't have much experience since I tend to skip over that magnification.  The BST Starguider 8mm is decent, the discontinued Speers Waler 5-8mm zoom is very nice at that power.  Nearby, I've been really impressed with the Morpheus 9mm.  The Meade HD-60 9mm isn't that far behind it, just narrower.  At 7mm, the Pentax XW is good, but I'm not that pleased with the edges.  There's an 8mm Delos which should be superb if it's as good as my Delos 10mm.

Comparison images of some of my eyepieces in those ranges:

7 hours ago, John said:

the XW 14 and 20m although I've alse read that many folks don't have a problem with those.

I think it has to do with the user's focus accommodation which is tied to age.  I had no problems using the Pentax XL 14mm until my mid-40s when I started having to wear bifocals.  It was at that point I could see its field curvature that many folks had mentioned over the years that I could never see.

7 hours ago, Timebandit said:

Woow , getting on for 4 years now . where does time go ?

 

I know the feeling.  I run into adults with little children in stores and they stop me to say hi.  I finally have to ask them who they are, and they explain they were little kids when I knew them last in the scout troops my kids were in!  The feeling of being old comes crashing down on me in those moments. 😱

I find my 3.5mm XW to be every bit as sharp and easy to use across the field as my 5.2mm XL.  I'm not as fond of my 7mm XW which exhibits a bit of edge issues on bright stars.  I also really liked my 14mm XL for years until my aging eyes could no longer accommodate its field curvature.  I ended up swapping it for a 14mm Morpheus.  Similar field curvature, but quite a bit wider (78 vs. 65 degrees), so the field curvature tends to start further out.  However, I find myself using my 12mm ES-92 more often than either 14mm.  It is phenomenal in every respect.

Enjoy using your new to you 3.5mm XW.

3 hours ago, badgerchap said:

Thanks all.

I've always been suspicious of zoom EPs. I've heard that they're never as good as the equivalent fixed focal length lenses. Is this true, or are these Baaders high enough quality to avoid it?

Like anything, it depends on what you're comparing it to.  Is the BHZ better than Pentax XWs and Delos or Ethos eyepieces, no.  Is it better than Kellners and Huygens, yes.  Is it better than Plossls?  That depends on which Plossl you're comparing to.

A lot of folks like their Leica ASPH zooms enough to sell their XWs and Delos eyepieces making the economics work out.

And no fixed focal length eyepiece can be nearly instantly adjusted to match its focal length to the current seeing conditions like a zoom can.

I use the nose piece of a 1990s vintage, Meade Series 4000 140 APO 2x Barlow screwed into the nose piece of my Arcturus binoviewer (same as the Revelation) to reach focus in my Newt.  It works out to yield 3x magnification, which isn't bad considering the Barlow alone yields 2.4x rather than 2x.  The field of view is sharp and color free from edge to edge, but wide fields of view are not possible with this setup.  These Barlows come up used for $40 or so on this side of the pond quite regularly.

Not all Barlow nose pieces are removable, and not all that do are 1.25" filter threaded.  For example, the Tele Vue 1.25" 2x Barlow is threaded smaller and thus won't grab 1.25" female filter threads.

To achieve wide fields of view, I added a 0.5x 1.25" focal reducer and 45mm of 1.25" spacer tubes between the binoviewer and the Barlow nose piece to reduce the magnification of the Barlow and make a home brew OCS/OCA/GPC since I had all the parts anyway.  However, this results in massive field curvature, so it's not at all a perfect solution.  However, scanning rich star fields with two eyes with such a setup is still gratifying if you focus your attention strictly on the center of the field.  It's just not useful for critical observing edge to edge.

23 hours ago, LCG said:

Any advice on a good 26-30mm?

APM Ultra Flat Field 30mm if 72 degrees is wide enough for you.  I find it sharper and color free edge to edge than the ES-82 30mm.

Have you removed the polarizer when viewing the moon?  The beam splitter and the polarized light from the polarizer are not going to play nice together because the beam splitter will probably partially polarize the light as well.

I find I don't need to dim the moon when using both eyes.  It's no different than looking up at the moon with both eyes.

2 hours ago, Sonmalul said:

But truth ne told, we keep pur scopes mostly indoors and they become part of our furniture in some way. 

I enjoy looking at things even when they are not used for their intended purpose, just to admire the craftmanship. 

I'm guessing you don't have little kids and pets that tend to accidentally knock things over or otherwise damage things.  All of my astro gear sheltered in the backs of a couple of coat closets to protect them during my child rearing years.  Even though I'm an empty nester now, I continue to store them there out of habit.

1 hour ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

Mate, inclusive of discounts, two BST Starguiders, including postage from FLO cost £87.55. The same from skies_unlimited costs £83.58. I'm not going to steer someone toward (on this occasion) a more expensive retailer because they sponsor a forum.

Not just A forum, this forum.  Exactly what forum does this other retailer support?  If it was an argument between FLO and Astronomics (CN sponsor), I'd have to agree with you.  Do you know for a fact that @Harry85 has been helping SGL's sponsor recently?  This is exactly how manufacturing moved to China, to save a few bucks per item.

1 hour ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

The 8mm an 15mm BSTs are very nice. Use skies_unlimited on Ebay if buying more than one new and save a couple of quid.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-25-15mm-BST-Starguider-ED-eyepiece/381534741945?hash=item58d53e25b9:g:fzoAAOSwpzdWrdWG

My mosted used eyepiece though is a Celestron XCel LX 25mm bought used. Excellent.

The Skywatcher 6mm 58° degree planetary is nice too for the price. Had it out on the moon earlier in a 150p and it was perfect. The only bug bear is the rubber eye cup isn't secured as well as I'd like.

I'm waiting for a 4mm Skywatcher UWA 82° to arrive to replace a TMB II 4mm. Totally different ends of the quality (and price!) spectrum. Although the TMB II was bought used very cheap and served me well as a stop gap ep.

 

Why not support FLO, our sponsor, by buying from them?  They give a 10% discount on 2, 15% discount on 4, and 20% discount on 7.  How is skies_unlimited's 5% discount better?

What about an observatory with remote sensing so you can program it up to do an imaging run if the sky conditions warrant it and close up automatically if they deteriorate?

Interesting.  In the US, Sky-Watcher founded Sky-Watcher USA to be their importer/distributor rather than rely on a third party.  Since Orion USA also imports some Synta products branded as Orion, I wonder how they interact here in the US.

5 hours ago, mih said:

Ok, then i want to ask about the Orion Nebula. Is that easier to observe?

Being the brightest nebula in the sky from our perspective, it's pretty easy to see in just about anything.  However, late May is not the right time of the year to view it.  If anything, adding an OIII nebula filter can help bring out the fainter details in light polluted skies once winter rolls around again.

Definitely by 200x M13 starts to resolve in an 8", not sure about a 6", in Texas seeing conditions.