Commanderfish

Hi all,

I'm very tempted by the idea of a flourite refractor. I enjoy my triplet fracs (115 and 127) more than any other type of scope for general use due to the sharpness, contrast and sparkly diamonds-on-velvet views. My typical usage of a frac is on one side of a giro mount, with a larger scope on the other side. Currently the larger scopes are Classical Cassegrains. I am strictly visual only.

My big set up at home on my balcony (less affected by streetlights as 1.5 stories high)  is an ES 127 Triplet Apo alongside a CC8. My grab and go is a TS Photoline 115 Triplet Apo and CC6.

The frac in each case is mostly set to around x23 and 3 degrees of field. The CC is then used to view small DSOs (open clusters, globs, small nebs) and lunar. Planets too if there were any around.

The proposed Tak would likely operate in three uses:

1) in place of the 115 triplet alongside a CC6. It would be around three kg lighter which would be handy;

2) on its own on a Manfrotto 405 Geared Head and photo tripod for real light grab and go, likely taken on car journeys like  Cornwall/Europe;

3) as per 2 but specifically for airline holidays. I only fly abroad once every 2 to 3 years for environmental reasons.

Questions:

1) is an FC-100 likely to give sharper contrastier views than a 115 FPL51 triplet?

2) Would the loss of 15mm aperture be noticeable?

3) There are three versions, the DC which is F7.4 with a 1.25" focuser. I prefer to use 2" EPs wherever possible (every use except possibly airline travel). I've read that you need to buy a 2" visual back for £100 but it can be difficult to get EPs to focus due to the tube being a little too long.

The DF version costs £300 more (!!) but has a heftier focuser, 2" visual back, and more importantly the tube is slightly shorter so 2" EPs come to focus. This is the version I currently believe most suitable for me. Downside is the dew shield doesn't slide but can be unscrewed, as can the focuser, for airline travel. Has anyone done this? Do Takahashi supply anything to cover the exposed unscrewed ends or do any of you have a sneaky tip for this e.g. elasticated end caps?

The DZ costs another £300 over the DF(!!) and has a sliding dewshield, which is useful. However it's F8 so the fields will be a bit narrower, and I do like my wide fields. I've read that there is a slight improvement at high mags over the F7.4 but not much - and bear in mind that I'm strictly visual and 90 percent of my viewing is done at home, where I always have a second scope for high aperture/high mag. The DZ is also the heaviest and longest FL which may make it a bit wobbly on some photo tripods.

I don't know if I can bring myself to fork out yet another £300 for a sliding dew shield when I don't particularly want to go up to F8.

Any advice from those with experience of the Taks?

For my grab & go set up...

Daytime tests in a TS Photoline 115 Triplet are very sharp edge to edge, I'm very impressed being used to Ethos and ES82s.

Just waiting for first light, tonight looks good.

How about a Tak FC60 as a finderscope? 😈

Welcome! How long til you buy your second scope? 😈

Yes that's it's 6" big brother, heavier, longer and needs a bigger mount.  Probably a good scope though ( I haven't had one myself).

It's in stock here: 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/bresser-messier-ar-102s600-hexafoc-optical-tube-assembly.html

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/bresser-messier-ar-102s600-hex-focus-optical-tube-assembly.html

Hmmm that's tricky, it depends partly what you want to view, but I would say for a simple rig with a very quick set up time, I would say a 4" or so refractor with an Alt Azimuth mount (unless you are doing astrophotography in which case you need an Equatorial mount which takes a lot longer to set up).  I think the Bresser AR102s refractor (102mm i.e. 4") is a lot of scope for the money, with a very solid focuser and decent objective lens.  I sold one last month because I got the above 115mm apochromatic refractor (which costs about 4 times as much).

I'd mount the AR102s on something like an AZ4 mount, or if you can afford it an AZ5.  A good, solid mount will work with many different telescopes as you chop and change, so it makes sense to invest.  I've owned almost 15 telescopes but only 5 mounts. Lighter, cheaper mounts won't be steady enough for longer or heavier telescopes.  I sold my first mount (an EQ3-2) within a few months because it wasnt really steady enough for heavier or longer scopes, and the setup time was a lot longer than an Alt Az mount.

If you could afford the Teleoptics Ercole Mini Giro and a tripod, that would be even better as in future you can mount two scopes side by side at different magnifications (and therefore fields of view) just like my set up above.  Though you have to budget about £40 extra for a pair of clamps as they don't come with the Ercole Giro itself. Extremely versatile mounts.

Finally spend about £15 on a simple red dot sight instead of a finder scope, that will work great with a 4" refractor.

Of course if you can afford a 5 " refractor and a mount for it, that's even better...

This set up lives in my living room. TS Photoline 115 Triplet Apo and a Stellalyra 6" Classical Cassegrain on a Teleoptiks Ercole Mini Giro and a Berlbach Report Tripod. 

The whole rig weighs less than 20 kg including diagonals and EPs and I carry it fully assembled on to the balcony outside and am viewing in seconds on the Apo at low power, and not too much later on the CC6" which cools quickly.

The Apo gives lovely sparkly wide field views, sharp as you like and contrasty. Fits the whole of Orion's belt in one view and the  CC6" gives surprisingly bright detailed views of DSOs like M42.

Really like this set up, so quick and easy.

On 24/02/2021 at 08:59, johninderby said:

Box opened. 🙂

Will start a new thread I think. “Tecnosky 125/975 F7.8 FPL-53 Doublet APO - First Look”

Hi John,

Since you mentioned you were getting a 5" Apo I've pulled my ES127 Triplet Apo out of storage (to evaluate it for sale) and I've been absolutely loving it alongside the CC8".  Good call!  The stars are such sparkly diamonds and the contrast is divine.  127 Apo and CC8 on an Ercole Giro are now my main rig

Hi there everyone, does anyone know of a lighter pillar extension for the EQ5/CG5 type tripods?  The Tripod in question is actually a Berlebach but it doesn't make any difference as it has an M10 male thread and fits the usual CG5 extension.  I use this Tripod in my grab and go set up with a Mini Giro Ercole. The usual CG5 extension is heavy (about 5kg I think).  I'm looking for something lighter that still has M10 threads.  The SW AZ pillar is the wrong fitment at both ends (3/8") and is also a lot shorter.

Any ideas gratefully received

3 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

Agreed, however I have a feeling that they will likely become more expensive still if other recent prices rises are applied to TeleVue too 🤞

Hence my reasoning for getting the 21 now 😬

Sounds like it will be ideal for this. I haven’t tried either of my Ethos in my CC6 or Mak yet, but interested to see how they perform 👍

Yep the Ethos 21 and 13 are great in the CC6.

I think they are a very worthwhile investment, since I got my Ethos EPs I haven't felt that there was any other EP I could get that would improve on them. The only possibility is the ES30mm 100 degree but that needs 3" focusers and diagonals and weighs a ton thus creating balance issues, and then using an adapter when you switch to 2"EPs, I don't think its worth it for me.

Heinously expensive!

I am lucky enough to have bought most of the Ethos range when they were much cheaper a few years ago due to exchange rates and often with 10pc off on those Astro Festival weekends. I never bought the 17mm as with my existing shorter scopes there wasnt a need for an EP between the 21 mm and the 13mm.

Now that I have an 8" CC as my main high mag scope, with an FL of 2436mm, the Ethos 17mm is very useful as it produces about x150. Otherwise my closest choices were x116 and x187.

I bought this exact scope (115 triplet FPL51) from TeleskopExpress.de last year and it's my go to visual frac. It's a great scope, snaps to focus, very sharp, nice contrast, and not too big or heavy to mount. I got it pre Brexit so there was no VAT or extra charges. Service was good and dispatch was quick. 

Big brother of the 6"...

The Stellalyra 8" Classical Cassegrain!

6" Stellalyra Classical Cassegrain for grab and go. Beefy focuser as standard!

I had planned to use it on a Manfrotto 405 geared head though it was a bit too wobbly. That's partly the lightweight alu tripod rather than the head, but I've found it much more stable on a Mini Ercole Giro, which means I have to have a second scope for balance. Oh well! 

1 hour ago, Basementboy said:

Cheers. What would you say to the idea of a 120 with an AZ4 mount, if I'm carrying it to the park to set up every time? Obviously the 120 is larger/bulkier to carry – but the AZ would mean it becomes much more portable than it would be with an EQ... does that sound right?

Yes, moving an AZ4 around is going to be so much lighter than an EQ of any kind.  The EQ itself is heavy, but it also has to have counterweights roughly equal to the scope on it.  So you're effectively carrying two scopes and a mount.  With the AZ4 it's just a scope and a mount.

4 hours ago, Basementboy said:

Thanks @Commanderfish! I guess I'd settled on an EQ mount because I gather it's easier to track objects as they move through the sky ... and while I'm still learning I reckon I want it to be easy to stick with an object once I've found it.

Do you think the 102 is a lot less good for deep space objects than the 120 (though maybe you haven't owned both)?

I have just sold a 102, I've got a 115 apo and a 127 apo.  The extra aperture of the 120 over the 102 is definitely a good thing.  If you are just doing visual then tracking is not hard at all using an Alt Az.  Setting up and carrying counterweights for an EQ is definitely hard!

47 minutes ago, Earl said:

I think a Evostar 120 might be far heavier than you are anticipating. not particularly portable imo

I think it's the 120mm achromat which is only about 5kg.  Not an ED scope.

Hi there,

My first scope was an Evostar 120mm on an EQ3 mount.  The scope is a really good starter, plenty of aperture, good optics and the chromatic aberration is low and I doubt very much it would bother you regardless of colourblindness (by the way CA usually shows up as blue-purple).  The aperture is enough to pick out quite a lot of deep space objects like open clusters and bright nebulae.

The EQ3 was not really upto the job of handling the 120; the scope is too long and heavy.  The EQ5 would likely be fine BUT if you are taking the kit apart and carrying it to the park, you can save a huge amount of weight and hassle by using an Alt-Az mount instead of the EQ5.  The EQ mounts require counterweights the same weight as the scope, the Alt Az do not, so that's a big consideration.  Also, Alt Az don't require any kind of polar alignment, whilst EQ do, so the set up time is much quicker.  I'd be looking at something like an AZ4 or AZ5.  I personally use Teleoptics Giro mounts which carry two scopes at a time, but that's a little beyond what you are trying to do at the moment.  Nonetheless, they are Alt Az mounts.

Awesome, thanks.  Probably going to get the 8" CC tomorrow.

Thanks, that is really helpful - I've realised that in fact both the Berlebach and the Giro mount are M10 and only the Skywatcher AZ extension pier is 3/8.  Oddly enough the male 3/8 thread at the top of the Skywatcher pier actually fits the female thread at the bottom of the Giro Ercole mount.  Rather than buy an adaptor I have now switched around several mounts and Tripods; - it's all M10 to M10 and 3/8 to 3/8 now... and everything fits exactly right and is steady!

Does anyone know of a pier with M10 threads that is lighter than the standard CG5 one?  That thing is an absolute beast.  That's why I bought the Skywatcher AZ pier extension but it has 3/8" fitment and isn't as tall.

2 hours ago, johninderby said:

I just bolted a small dovetail saddle to the QR plate. Some saddles have a photo type thread in them that makes it easier.

I modded the 405 by removing the centre section to make it  a proper alt-az head. It’s a simple mod.

The 6” gets used a lot more as it is grab’n’go but the 8” would indeed be better on fainter targets.

 By the way, how did you take the centre section (tilt axis I believe) off the 405?  I can't see any screws or other fixings and I'm not sure where to attack it.

Hi there, 

I'm trying to get an adapter to connect a Berlebach Report Tripod  (172 I think) to a Skywatcher Pier.  The Berlebach has a male thread which appears to be 10mm, which I presume is 10mm x 1 size?

The Skywatcher has a 3/8" female socket.  Does anyone know what the thread count (TPI) is?  I've estimated it at 16tpi but I could easily be wrong as 24TPI seems a much more common size.  Any help appreciated!

Sorry my 115 is actually a triplet apo, I don't know why I called it an ED!  Cool down is really not bad on that one.  Cool down is a concern but the 8" might be similar to the 115 triplet.

Although the 8" is fairly heavy, the size and shape should make it reasonably easy to handle, especially compared to my Starwave 152 which is 11Kg and about a metre long all in.  I wouldn't add tube rings to a CC and I'd probably remove the Losmandy too.  I'd likely stay with the stock focuser.

I imagine that the short CC tubes probably don't have the same issues as longer fracs when you tilt to a certain angle and the EP ends up low down and the angular weight starts to pivot the scope down despite locking the mount...

Out of interest have you ever tried putting the 8" on your Manfrotto 405 and if so what happened?! 😁

8 minutes ago, johninderby said:

The CC6” has very sharp optics that will be superior to the ST150 but of course the narrower fov. The CC can do high power lunar / planetary which is the ST150s greatest weakness but OK low power use though.

Don’t think there would be much noticeable difference in light gathering ability and the total lack of CA will help.

This clamp is a best buy and good quality.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Telescope-Accessories-Aluminums-Alloy-High-Load-Dovetail-Clamp-For-PhotographyUK/163898426577?epid=27028681810&hash=item26291b84d1:g:hyMAAOSwZi5dnYG8

Thanks this is really helpful.    The FOV is not too worrying as I'll likely mount it side by side with a widefield frac.  Just a case of tossing up the 6" or the 8". 

Seems like the 8" is a bit heavy for a grab and go set up but I bet it really pulls a lot of detail out of DSOs and planets - is it quite a significant jump up from the 6"?

3 minutes ago, johninderby said:

The CC6” has very sharp optics that will be superior to the ST150 but of course the narrower fov. The CC can do high power lunar / planetary which is the ST150s greatest weakness but OK low power use though.

Don’t think there would be much noticeable difference in light gathering ability and the total lack of CA will help.

This clamp is a best buy and good quality.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Telescope-Accessories-Aluminums-Alloy-High-Load-Dovetail-Clamp-For-PhotographyUK/163898426577?epid=27028681810&hash=item26291b84d1:g:hyMAAOSwZi5dnYG8

Ha!  Just bought that exact one about two minutes ago!