Commanderfish

43 minutes ago, Highburymark said:

Like Stu, I’ve taken my FC-100DC abroad on flights a few times after removing its focuser, Tak ‘spacer’ section, and dew shield. I leave the spacer off the scope permanently now as I do so much binoviewing. Using purely T2 adapters, diagonals and clicklocks, you can pretty much reach focus with any set up. Only caveat is that these scopes aren’t massively robust, so packing them into cabin baggage requires care. But the rewards are worth it. Pic shows scope without spacer.

Mark, which adapter is that on your Feathertouch? It looks silver, but the Starlight ones appear black on the FLO website.

PS, I mentioned to Ian that the Feathertouch focusers are scandalously expensive and I *think* the price just dropped £45... Could be wrong

Excellent, thanks Holly and Mark, that's super helpful. Mark is that a Feathertouch 2025 or 2015?

Has anyone got 1.5" travel on their Tak FC focuser drawtube, for instance from the shorter Feathertouch FTF 2015, and is it enough travel to bring your 2" Eyepieces to focus (Ethos, ES 82?) I know some of you have the FTF 2025 with 2.5" travel which seems ample. I gather the stock DC focuser is only 1" travel so the FTF 2015 would be a small improvement but not sure if it's enough?

7 hours ago, Voyager 3 said:

@Commanderfish , if you only use the 76mm Tak for widefields , then why not get a good 72mm fpl-53 triplet ? I believe the tak and the triplet would be indistinguishable in wide fields . Where the Tak comes up victoriously is in high power planetary/lunar and double stars . But I see your mild case of takitis 🤣 .

Good idea, but i want something lighter and with faster cool down than a triplet, hence thinking about a Flourite Doublet. I have had an ED80 Triplet before, it was very good but heavy.

1 hour ago, Stu said:

 

76 vs 100 is a tricky one, they are both lovely scopes. For me the 100 has enough of a resolution benefit to be worth making the effort to take away with me, but 76 will give that bit wider fields of view if that is most important to you, as well as being a bit more portable.

Very useful Stu. Because I have the CCs, most of the time planetary would be through those. But wide fields would be a common target as would big DSOs. Would the 100 provided a significantly richer field? Probably. It would also provide more light grasp for DSOs. I just wish the dew shield retracted without having to spend almost £3k!!!

Stu, how easy is it to remove the dewshield? Is it something you could screw on at the beginning or each session without spoiling the cosmetic or mechanical finish?

Noooooooooooo

I know I'm going to end up with two Taks but my wallet is not prepared to accept that reality

1 hour ago, JeremyS said:

But as I’ve said before, if you are not doing much travel then I don’t really see a significant advantage of the FC 100 over the triplet you already have, other than weight.

The weight is an issue, yes. A Tak doublet would also cool quicker. But you're right in that it wouldn't have a viewing advantage over a 115 triplet. Also the FC100 is actually longer than the Triplet when not in use, and I don't have a small grab and go and I would like a Tak... Hence the suitability of the FC76 for wide field alongside the CC6 for aperture.

But the FC100 would be great for general viewing on its own on a phototripod...

Oh I don't know!!

1 hour ago, JeremyS said:

Unless you desire ownership of a Tak - which is a symptom of that well know malady called Takitis 😊

Pretty sure that's either a Pacific island, a cocktail, or both.

Right so having spoken to Ian at FLO (the legendary Ian King I presume?), I reckon the FC100 DC would actually fit the bill - I could run 2" EPs off the back using either a Tak 2" VB or a Baader clicklock.  Apparently, you can also remove a ring from between the focuser and the tube, bringing the light path down a bit for binoviewing - there's a thread here on SGL explaining how.

However, a re-think is in progress.  

I have no grab and go scopes smaller than my 115 triplet and CC6".  The Triplet is 6.2 Kg without diagonal and EP, is too much for a photo tripod, and has a long cool down for high powers, which are the reasons for considering a Tak doublet. 

Now, the FC100 despite it's low weight is actually longer with it's dew shield screwed on (81.5cm) than the 115 triplet (which is about 80cm unretracted, 62 cm dew shield retracted).  That's not ideal for standing set up in my living room (which is what the 115 and CC6 do).

The only time I would be totally limited to using the Tak on it's own would likely be air flights.  That's when big aperture would be most missed, but that's only once every two to three years.  I am now wondering whether I should, as some of you have suggested, keep the 115 triplet and get a Tak 76DCU.

The 76DCU could easily go on airflights.  

It could be taken on car journeys/holidays in a rucksack, along with the 115 triplet on the parcel shelf, both mounted on the Mini Giro Ercole.  The Tak could be used immediately for low power wide field whilst the triplet cools for high power.

It could also be run at home next to the 6" CC, with the 76DCU giving wide fields whilst the CC6 gives aperture for planets and DSOs.

I could also just run outside the house with the 76 on a photo tripod to catch viewing angles which are obstructed from my gardens.  

The aperture would definitely be lacking, but the portability would be better than my 4.5Kg ED80 triplet, which I've now sold.  I do have other scopes for the aperture.  Really most of the use would be wide field.

Any thoughts?

9 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

 

It does require a certain amount of extension, but with T2 rings, I’ve got the focuser where it gives me good travel either side of the normal focusing spot for most eyepieces, and none require extension ring changes (yet), although Delos might do.

Although I could have used the Tak supplied adaptors, I’ve got mine setup like this currently (photo).

 

 

Ah very useful info!  So instead of buying the Tak 2" visual back you bought a Baader Clicklock which will allow you to use a 2" diagonal?  Looks like you'd have enough travel for binoviewers with a 1.25" diag maybe?

On 24/06/2020 at 22:39, John said:

Personally I would prefer that such eyepieces go for a 2 inch barrel and be done with it. I use 2 inch barrel extensions with my Ethos eyepieces that have the hybrid barrel. I can use 2 inch filters with them then as well

 

Same.  I have all Ethos that can be set to 2", set to 2".  The 6, 8 and 13 are simultaneously 2" higher up and 1.25" lower down the barrel.  The 8" sometimes goes in a 60mm Antares finderscope for full-on tail wagging the dog (physically and in price) action. 

13 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

I’m so taken with it, that I’ve just bought an FC-60CB to accompany it, in the wild expectation that I might be able to take this on holiday with us later in the year, but also to provide binocular like wide views (using an XW 30 or 40).

I still think that the advice to go for the FC-100 as a “one scope” makes total sense, but these others are wonderfully complementary instruments 👍

I have been fantasising about using an FC-60 as a super finder/widefield scope alongside an FC100 - please let me know how you find it in use!

Surely your 76DCU can go on hols with you - or do you mean to take both 76 and 60? I know I would...

2 minutes ago, HollyHound said:

I’m the same, I have micro focusers on all my scopes, but usually reach for the main knob most of the time, rather than the micro focuser knob.

It does get used occasionally though and adds a different feel (as you say), so always nice to have it.

I’ve ordered the FeatherTouch Micro Pinion for my FC-76DCU, as I want to retain the “Tak” look but benefit from micro focus when needed... should get round to fitting it this weekend and see how it works out 🤔😃

Excellent, let me know how you find it, whether the feel on the big focuser knob feels right to you, as per decent aftermarket focusers.

I think your DCU has the smaller focuser with the 35mm travel, how are you finding that and are you using any 2" EPs?

A short review.  I'm used to Televue Ethos and Panoptic eyepieces, Explore Scientific 82 degree EPs, and also various less expensive options I've owned in the past.

I've tested the Panaview 38mm 70 degree on 115  F7 and 127 F7.5 triplet refractors, and 6 and 8" F12 Cassegrains at night. All showed sharp fields edge to edge, in focus. I'm very impressed. The daytime view in the fracs was also great, very sharp and clear, though not good around the edge of the Cassegrains - maybe too much aperture?

The top lens of the eyepiece is huge. Doesn't seem to cause problems much, as the twist up eyecup is very good. I found I could twist it up just a few mm and rest my cheek on it for perfect positioning in the fracs.

I have to say these are very good value at around £100, I'm really impressed. I would like to try the 32mm, although I must say the 70 degree field in that EP is not so impressive as you can get 82 degree ES or Naglers at that FL - but at many times the price.

I didn't test below F7 though. I'm sure someone else has...

Yep I had read about off axis issues. Not cool at all. Hmm it's between the FC76 and the FC100.

I think the FC100 may make more sense in the long run. My grab and go pair is a little heavy at the mo with the 115mm triplet and the CC6.

I could compare the Fc100 against the 115 and see if I could bear to sell the 115, which in my opinion is both awesome and good value. But given I'm selling my VX16 and about to list my AR152 for sale as well, I could do this...

Any thoughts on a used Sky 90 instead? It seems they are sensitive to collimation and not as sharp as the FS for planetary...

14 hours ago, JeremyS said:

I use it for all those things, Fish 😊

 

Now this is quite telling.  The optical quality and contrast must be really exceptional to be using a 76mm on those objects.  I'd really like to try a flourite scope as I suspect from everything I've read that I'm going to love the quality of views.  But as you both say, they're not miracle machines so aperture counts.

Although I love wide fields, oddly I don't like them TOO wide.  I never used my ED80 wider than 4.4 degrees (Ethos 21) as I actually found it too wide to find my way easily as the sky is too full of stars, plus the sky is darker with higher mag.  I don't much like going lower than x23 ish.

Looking at the FC76  (570mm FL) for widefield I would most likely use it with an Ethos 21mm at x27 and a nice 3.7 degrees.  That is good, x27 is a nice mag for a field that size.  The next EP up would be a 30mm 82 degree which at x19 is a little low for my liking - unless I buy a 24mm 82 degree as well

The wider fields produced by the FC76 with my personal preference of magnification would not be much wider than the FC100 F7.4, which would produce about x24 and 3.4 degrees using a 30mm 82 degree.  But x27 and 3.7 degrees is nicer.  However as a solo instrument for car journeys and air flights I think the aperture of the FC100 probably makes more sense?  More aperture for little nebs, globs and planets...

14 hours ago, Stu said:

Interestingly regarding focusers, I use the fine focus all the time on mine, and find it invaluable for nailing the focus particularly on solar white light but generally any high power viewing. I also find that the mere fact a focuser has a fine focus also gives a more controllable weight to the coarse focus so I do understand you just using this. FTs are a fortune now aren’t they? I doubt I would be able to afford one now, which is why the Vixen has a Moonlite! I don’t think a Moonlight would suit a Tak though, too big and bulky.

Yes that's exactly my finding - a good dual speed focuser has a very nice, weighty feel to the large focuser wheel - quite a lot of resistance - which makes it easy to reach the exact focus spot.  The little wheel (1/10th the turn rate) doesn't have that resistance and just doesn't feel as accurate and satisfying to use.

I know this Asterism well, always catches the eye when surfing the area.  Nice symmetry of three pairs of visual doubles.

Yes I was originally considering the 76mm actually!! 

I've taken an ED80 on holiday before and it was very good, but just imagine how much more I would see with a 100mm.  That's the trouble when you're away, you usually only have one scope so it needs to do it all.   Bear in mind I do love my DSOs like globs, M42, Swan, Eagle etc.   

 How has your 76 done with little DSOs like that?  Or do you mostly use it for lunar/planetary when you're away?

Cheers

The 115 is very very good, yes. If even higher sharpness and higher contrast is possible then that is what I'm after. Also the Tak is 3kg lighter for grab and go and is feasible for photo tripods, car holidays where the boot is already full, air lines...

Can't really do that stuff with a 6.2kg frac plus eyepieces...

30 minutes ago, John said:

I have a Tak FC100-DL (the F/9 version) and a very good Skywatcher ED120 and tend to agree with this.

The FC100-DL gets very close to the performance of the ED120 on the moon, planets and double stars. The ED120 goes a little deeper on DSO's.

The FC100 is a superb scope and but it's not really been a "game changer" compared with the humble ED120, not to me at least. I'm glad I own it though

 

Very useful, thanks!  I may be better off keeping what I've got.

There is the weight and mounting issue though.  The 115/800 is 6.2Kg and needs at least a Mini Giro and another scope alongside to counterbalance it, which is fine for home but not for travel.  The FC100-DF version is only 3.3Kg and 740mmm FL which makes a lighter mount and photo tripod viable.  

Hmm, decisions decisions...

26 minutes ago, Stu said:

I had a few 120EDs at a similar time to my FC100DC and personally always found myself reaching for the Tak, mainly out of convenience, lighter and shorter tube and under my skies I never felt it was missing out on much to the 120. Ultimately aperture does define resolution, so the 115 should have a slight advantage, but it’s heavier and takes longer to cool.

Very helpful as ever, Stu!  Excellent, those lens hoodies are exactly the thing. 

Feathertouch are lovely focusers.  That Feathertouch and adapter are a staggering £659 at the moment!!  Also I have found that I very rarely use my micro focusers.   I personally like rolling the big wheel very gradually. I don't know why, I just don't actually like using the 1:10 reduction.  That being the case, I will probably save the £390 by buying the DF over the DC + Feathertouch...

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

First, the sliding dew shield of the DZ only slides by 80mm, so not really a deal breaker in my opinion. Despite being F8, the DZ can be compacted down to 58.5cm with the dewshield retracted and the extension tubes fully removed. Is that enough to warrant paying the extra?   Optically the DZ is simply gorgeous and could quickly win your heart. But I've also had the DC version, which proved to be my most used scope out of the 41 years I've been observing. The DC, which is optically identical to the DF is equally as much a jewel in the hands of a visual observer as the DZ, again IMO. I found the DC to offer vibrant views of planetary detail, especially Jupiter and Mars. The Moon will stun you!  The DZ by comparison seems to offer a slightly cooler, more Ivey view, if that appeals to you as it does to me, and is similar to the DL, or older Vixen FL102. Bottom line is that all are top class refractors that will give you textbook star images upto 500X on a top class night. DSO's are unusually bright in these fluorite doublets too.

The DC will take 2" eyepieces with a 2" adapter,  but the focuser travel is only about 38mm. The DF would be a better option if you could afford the extra. But is the DZ worth the extra?  Having owned both, I really wouldn't lose sleep over the difference between the three.

Below my DC Focuser

 

Below my DZ Focuser.

Very helpful, thanks!  The DF is probably right for me then.  I think there may have been a typo, would did you mean by "more Ivey view"?

1 hour ago, JeremyS said:

I’d stick with your existing triplet 115 frac, Fish. Especially as you mainly use for low power wide field. I can’t see the Tak 100s outperforming.

Thanks.  This change would not be about seeing more objects, it's more about the quality of the view.  The reviews I've read of the Flourite Taks all speak of exceptional sharpness and contrast which boosts detail.  This is what I need to assess...