F15Rules

The irony is that a scope like that is often optically far superior to many modern cheap department store efforts.

Many of us cut our observing teeth on Circle T 60mm scopes and they gave us some marvellous views. 

IMO it's worth getting an adapter to allow the use of modern 1.25 inch eyepieces - they will really extract the maximum performance from your scope👍.

Dave

I also don't rate most Meade products that I have used. Notable exceptions for me were pairs of Series 3000 Japan 16mm and 25mm, a Series 4000 UWA 14mm Japan (a big, heavy beast but with excellent c80+ deg fov), and a nice Series 4000 Japan 26mm plossl.

I have also owned a couple of Meade 300/339 F15 refractors which were very nice - but I believe that all of the above products were not actually made by Meade, but simply carried their branding.

For your c10mm needs I'd heartily endorse the Pentax 10mm XW (or earlier XL10.5mm if you can find one), or the Baader Morpheus 9mm - all 3 are wonderful eyepieces IMO.

See below photos of the Meade 4000 UWA with some others for scale..it really was a lovely eyepiece!

QUOTE from SGL post I made in late March 2016.. "I can't agree more re the Meade 4000 UWAs, my 14mm is just superb, right up there with Naglers (much bigger than some though), and I got mine for £100 shipped..picture below for scale with an ortho, APM x2.7 barlow and my Pentax zoom 🙂

Dave"

Good luck!

Dave

Great write up, Dave.

I too came to very similar conclusions several years ago..any differences I could/can perceive are pretty small.

My own personal preference these days is for prism diagonals rather than mirrors, as they do seem to me to offer a little less light scatter and improved contrast - I've always felt that good prisms have shown me the blackest backgrounds - but I have no way of proving it scientifically.

I currently have a Baader T2 prism and an older unbranded (I believe Japanese) prism. I find it pretty much impossible to perceive any real difference in the views. But the build and feel of the Baader is what really separates the two.

I also have a very nice 2" WO Enhanced mirror diagonal (as it happens I got this from Dave, the author of the above report), and having previously owned a top of the range WO 2" Durabright Dielectric, I honestly prefer the so called "lower end" Enhanced version..go figure, as our US cousins might say!

Thanks again for the write up Dave, I suspect you have helped to reassure a good few fellow Stargazers with your observations!

Dave

Good to hear you have the diagonal back in service Stu. 

Did Baader give any indication as to what they thought the stain was caused by? It does make you wonder about the worth of such a high priced item versus something cheaper? I confess my much cheaper T2 prism (non Zeiss version) gives me superb views and I know that I could replace it for less than £100 if I had to..and I doubt that my much less than perfect eyes could see any difference between my diagonal and the Ultra high end units anyway😁.

Dave

Went out for an hour c 7.30pm, Moon very bright 2nd quarter, but also plenty of stars on view. Did some testing of a new pair of cheap 30mm plossls for binoviewing (see my separate thread in Eyepieces forum).

I also got a few moon shots with my cheap Moto G3 phone and my FS128 at x70, of which this one was the only one worth keeping..

Dave

Thanks John.

I was pleasantly surprised by these EPs. Having more restricted funds recently has rather opened my eyes to the fact that it IS possible to get really pleasant viewing for a reasonable cost these days.. certainly, newcomers to the hobby can get good views with entry level equipment, at prices that we could only dream of 30 or 40 years ago.

Dave

Hi,

For the foreseeable future I am on a tight budget.. but I wanted to get a pair of cheapish 30mm eyepieces for low power viewing with my Revelation binoviewer and last week I took a punt on a pair of 30mm Ostara Plossls, priced at £17.99 each with free delivery.

Well they arrived a few days ago....and I have to say that I am very pleased with them, for the money paid out. Tonight I gave one of them (cyclops viewing) a good check out versus my excellent 28mm Carton Japan eyepiece (before you ask, my chances of getting a second Carton to pair up with this one are less than extremely unlikely!). The Carton is a superb little eyepiece and gives lovely, high contrast views. At 28mm vs 30mm the two eyepieces are close enough to compare fields of view etc. 

I viewed the double double in Lyra with both eyepieces, alternating back and forth in my FS128 with both WO 2" enhanced diagonal and Baader T2 prism...and I have to say, the Ostara plossl acquitted itself quite well. It is a lightweight build, but solid enough, with a nice large eyelens (see photos) and a smooth barrel, so no undercut to foul up on diagonals' compression rings! To be sure, the Carton beat the Ostara on contrast and was slightly but definitely better on light transmission, but the cheap Ostara gave very nice, sharp views over a field I'd estimate to be c 52 degrees - ideal for binoviewing. Colour rendition was also very nice, I could clearly see that a fairly faint star (with a fainter companion) some way south of the double double (but in the same fov) was a distinct reddish hue.

I briefly tried the pair of Ostaras in my Revelation binoviewers the other night, but had to use x1.6 nosepieces to bring them to focus as I did not have enough in focus on the Tak to do without these: however, I have ordered a used Baader Ultrashort adapter which I hope will get me to native focus without the need for OCS or barlows.

I believe these Ostara eps are a generic brand, also seen under the Omegon name (and, no doubt various others), but credit where it is due, I think they represent excellent value and deliver very nice views for the price paid. They do have long eye relief, but I found that using a pair of winged rubber eyeguards made it much easier to correctly place my eye to get the best views.

Recommended!

Dave

Hi Glen,

Interesting thought.. I just have two scopes at the moment, an F8.1 Tak FS128 Fluorite apo and a vintage 80mm F15 achromat. I find the "tonal" appearance of both to be remarkably similar (insofar as I can judge them from memory, I've not done a side by side comparison).

I would describe the image tone as being very "pure" or "neutral" in both scopes..I seem to see more variation in eyepiece tones, which can sometimes be very noticeable.

As an example of this, using a good ortho as a benchmark, I find Tele Vue plossl to be slightly "warm" whereas I find a Morpheus  to be "cooler" or more neutral, which I prefer.

This isn't a scientific judgement, just my opinion based on what I see☺.

Dave

Hobby "killers" I've had..work, weather, young family, work, weather, teenage family, work, weather, grown up family, hmm..something of a pattern here🙄?

Hobby "revitalisers".. the wonders of a clear sky, an understanding wife, a love of refractors, SGL for the past 10 years, annual anticipation and first glimpse of the returning Orion, the solitude of looking up at the dead of night - and now, retirement.

I feel very blessed👍☺.

Dave

15 hours ago, midatlantic61 said:

The ES24/68 remains the only one with the mathematically right exit pupil

This eyepiece is also an excellent performer, not far behind the Vixen IMO👍☺.

Dave

Just joined the thread and would have drafted something very similar to John's post had he not beat me to it!

I'm a big fan of the Morpheus range and well recall how the 14mm captivated me  (the first one I owned)..it was not until almost 3 years later that Baader perfected the 17.5mm (it was well worth the wait!), and my reading at the time suggested that Baader felt that they had, with the 17.5mm, pushed that design to its' very limits, hence the delays.. so I don't think we are likely to see longer FL Morphs in the future, sadly.

That being the case, I would heartily recommend the Vixen 22mm. In my honest opinion, and after many side by side field comparisons, I sold my Pentax XW 20mm in favour of the Vixen: it bested the Pentax in contrast and much less field curvature, and matched it in everything else. Sadly discontinued now, they are hard to find, but if you find one for sale, grab it! I've never used the Dioptrix, so can't help on that I'm afraid.

Good luck.

Dave

On 16/11/2019 at 18:34, estwing said:

Fantastic ep's...got the whole set for £40 ...work great in the telementor.

 

Now that's what I call a bargain purchase!👍

Dave

+1 for the Meade 3000s. I wish I still had mine from 16mm up (I found the shorter ones very good but tight on eye relief like most plossls). 

For me, the 16mm was the pick of the range, closely followed by the 25mm. I think they stand up well vs the TV plossls especially considering their age.

Enjoy yours!👍☺

Dave

Hi Danny,

Lovely scope!

I wouldn't worry a about it..some lens dust is normal on any scope (and doesn't normally affect the performance), and if you shine a bright light on it all you do is scare yourself!😁.

It is important to keep a scope in dry conditions, avoiding dampness, but I doubt that it being "warm" is that important.

If I were you I would just enjoy your scope, keep an eye on the small "spot" and only if it materially changes, eg gets bigger, would I look to have the scope checked out. If you did need such a check, several of the UK astro retailers do offer a scope cleaning service.

HTH,

Dave

1 hour ago, John said:

They have also been copied by chinese manufacturers eg:

https://www.365astronomy.com/16mm-Columbus-UWA-Ultra-Wide-Angle-Eyepiece-with-80-degree-field-of-view.html

That's interesting John..I have seen one of these (and looked through it, although an unbranded version and not the 16mm that Ian bought from me)..I didn't realise that it might have similar optics to the Fullerscopes eyepiece, but what I do recall is that the build quality was not a patch on the Fullerscopes Japan unit, although the optics seemed pretty good.

I'm sure I read somewhere that, back in the 1980s/90s, these eyepieces were quite expensive to buy new (like most Astro kit from Japan in those days?)

Dave

8 hours ago, SyedT said:

I think I'll end up going for a pair of 10x50s for travel use, and then maybe think about mounted 25x100s for backyard viewing. Once again, thank you all for the advice.

Good choice..do let us know what you buy in the end - with pictures please!👍

Dave

45 minutes ago, JeremyS said:

This evening I polished and buffed the tube of my venerable Takahashi FS 102 with Rennaissance wax. Came up nicely!

We need pictorial evidence please Jeremy!!

"And thanks for reading my post, I’m looking forward to reading your findings when you can......"

And thanks to you too, Ed☺. Your experience sounds very similar to mine. There is something about these 7x50s that is just very appealing. Mine have a very slight yellowish cast in daylight, but this is invisible at night, and what strikes me is just how sharp they are. 

2 hours ago, Merlin said:

I once tried a pair of 10X50 TENTO's and they were rubbish optically. Conversely, I had a pair of 20X60 TENTO's and they were good. Wish I'd kept them.

I think you were unlucky Merlin. I have owned around 10 different Russian binos and only ever had one with problems.. ironically, it was a 20x60 pair which were out of collimation, and the vendor readily gave me a full refund. Sometimes the focusing wheel can be a little loose, bit optically I have nearly always found them to be good.

Dave

Last year I bought new a lovely pair of Opticron SR-GA 8.5x50s, made in Japan. Like all Opticron products I have ever used, they are very well built, deliver full aperture (no stopped down lenses here), and have superbly sharp optics. The only improvement I would ask for if I could would be a slightly wider field of view (the Opticrons have a 5.2 degree field).

A couple of years back I sold a pair of 1980s Tento BNU 7x50s to a member here on SGL and have since regretted selling them (how often have we said that, in hindsight??)

Fortunately, the older USSR produced bins do come up for sale on a regular basis on eBay, and a while back I resolved to look out for another pair.

Although used Russian bins are almost ten a penny (it seems most house clearance firms find them in lofts etc on a regular basis!), you do have to try to box clever and fine a pair that has been looked after and is in good collimation..well, last week I found a pair that intrigued me, in that they were old (made in July 1976), and sounded as though they were genuinely in great condition.

I asked a few questions of the seller (I find that doing so can tell you a lot about both the seller and the item for sale,both directly and indirectly), and as I had hoped, this pair of Tentos had been bought new by the seller in 1978, from Dixon's photographic, for £18.. bear in mind that in 1978, as a young man of 22, I was taking home less than £22 a week, so these were NOT a cheap item, however much they might have been subsidised by the USSR to pull in much needed foreign currency.

The seller had bought them to watch birds in his London garden, used them a few times, lost interest, and packed them away until an imminent recent house move brought them back to his attention.

So I took the plunge and we agreed on a price of £55 including shipping - a bit above the common eBay price range of £30-£50, but I thought the condition and provenance of these made them worth a little more.

The bins arrived two days ago and are in wonderful condition for an almost 45 year old binocular. The coatings look great on both objectives and eyepieces, although I would think they may well be just single coated Mfg, due to their age. Two pairs of snug fitting filters were included, (yellow-orange and green), along with a good leather case and strap, eyepiece and objective covers...and that (thankfully) faint but unmistakable whiff of dead halibut, common to most Russian bins🙃😁..

Anyway, I plan to do some serious comparisons between the Tentos and the Opticrons this season, and will post up my findings at a later date. But on a short first look the night the Tentos arrived, using both pairs solely on M45 (Pleiades), seated in a recliner and handheld my initial impressions are:

Opticrons:

Fabulous contrast, really black sky background, very sharp on axis and out to about 85% of the 5.2degree field, pure white brighter stars. The higher magnification and smaller field made the main cluster very dominant in the view.

Tento:

Noticeably wider field of view (c7degrees), nice contrast, but definitely a brighter background, very sharp out to c 65-70% of the field, with the faint stars of the background really framing the view of the Pleiades nicely.

The overall impression was that the Opticrons delivered a darker sky with more of a "diamonds on velvet" appearance, whilst the Tentos gave a more "panoramic" vista. I liked both views immensely.

Interestingly, although the Tentos definitely seemed to deliver a bit less bright images than the Opticrons, I felt I could see pretty much everything through the Tentos that I could with the Opticrons. For example the fainter trailing arm line of faint stars to the south of the main cluster body was visible with both instruments, albeit perhaps slightly more faint in the Tentos. In this regard I think the bigger 7mm exit pupil , my ageing eyes, and older coatings of the Tentos versus the 5.9mm e.p. and modern multi coatings of the Opticrons were the key influencing factors.

Overall, I am very impressed with both sets of bins and look forward to more comparisons on the winter sky☺👍.

Here are some pics of the two together. Thanks for reading.      Dave

Hi Syed,

I agree that 10x50s are a great all rounder -but so are 7x50s, especially if you are under 50 or so and your eyes can fully use the 7mm exit pupil they deliver.

I have both and they give different views, both great, but for "away from home" use in hopefully good skies the 7x50s would be my first choice. You will get a wider field of view and see just as deep as with the 10x50s.

At the moment FLO have this cracking deal on a really nice  7x50 unit - half price! 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/offers/opticron-imagic-tga-wp-7x50-binoculars.html

HTH👍☺

Dave

I think Craig is correct Glen, the newer Morphs (sold since c January 2018) are all equipped with the much improved eyeguard and the new M43 extender.

Worth just checking, though, with the supplying dealer that this is the case..a few "new old stock" units (ie without the upgrades) might still be out there. FLO and other good dealers would, I'm sure, make sure you were told if this was the case.

You can buy these parts as retro fit accessories for earlier Morphs..https://www.firstlightoptics.com/baader-planetarium/baader-morpheus-rubbermetal-foldable-eyecup.html 

and 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/baader-planetarium/baad_m43-extension_ring_2954250.html

HTH 👍

Dave

1 hour ago, GlenM said:

Just ordered the 17.5 from FLO.

 

Glen.

 

Hi Glen,

Hope you are keeping well☺?.

I really like the Morpheus range. I haven't any at the moment but once funds allow I  plan to get the almost the full range.

I have owned the 9,12.5, 14 and 17.5mm and really liked them all. For me the best was the 17.5, the "worst" (still much better than the Pentax XW equivalent) was the 14mm (some FC seen, but far less than the 14 XW, and a little lateral colour).

I haven't used the 4.5 and 6.5mm as yet, but have read good reports of them too.

With a superb 12.5mm in the range (think BGO 12.5mm with a 76deg fov!), I don't think the 14mm is actually necessary. 

Mine were used at F7 and F8.

Highly recommended👍.

Dave

1 hour ago, mikeDnight said:

She certainly looks gorgeous lying naked after her body waxing Dave. Makes my heart skip a beat! 

Goodness, Mike, if my lovely wife reads that I will be toast!!😱😁

What eyepieces are you using Martin? It might be worth investing in a couple of 2" wide fields if you don't already have any? The ES 68s can be found secondhand reasonably and work very well in my experience.  I also have a 2" Vixen NLVW 65deg which is nice too. Of course, you may already have some wide field Televue or similar in which case ignore the above comments! 

You might get a wider field with the F5 reflecdtor, but I would expectd the Vixen to give far more pleasing images to be honest..

Dave

Cheers, Martin, I used it to good effect on my Vixen ED103s too. Any scope with a half decent paint finish on it should shine up nicely I think👍.

Dave