F15Rules

Hi Dave,

It's a bit of a hotch potch isn't it?

The finder looks like it came off a Prinz 550 sold by Dixon's in the 1970s (see photo of one below). That was a 60mm F15 (I had one when I was 15) and I had good fun with it.. 

https://images.app.goo.gl/1GNmAR3qqZ6CP3u39

But the actual scope you're looking at looks very different..perhaps an old Fullerscopes OTA?

From the pics it's hard to see if the black finish on the tube is original or even a "wrapover" finish. In fact, looking more closely, I think that tube is wrapped in some black material..

I personally would give it a miss but if you are that close to the vendor... you're not risking much🥴🙄😁

Let us know what you decide to do?

Dave

I think it's hard to beat a good long focus refractor for splitting doubles and presenting them beautifully.

F12 or slower achromats are really excellent, with F13-F15 being the sweet spot I feel. Why? Several reasons: Depth of focus ( no need for dual speed focuser as the long refractor focal ratio allows a good margin within which sharp focus can be achieved).

Also, long refractors present large airy disks which I feel can help to spot faint companions on or close to the first diffraction ring.

And long refractors seem also to be much less affected by atmospheric conditions, giving of their best more often.

Some of the older (1979s-80s) F15 refractors such as Towa Topic do come up for sale at reasonable prices from time to time say from £50-£100: mounted on a modern EQ5 class mount and modified with an adapter to take 1.25" eyepieces, they can give lovely views of close doubles down to c 2" or so of arc.

The challenge for the bigger scopes like these is mounting them properly, due to their long length and moment arm. But on a good equatorial they can be solid as a rock, as shown below on my old D&G USA 5" F15 achromat, now owned by a fellow SGLer and lovingly mounted on an EQ6 on a permanent pier. The views of doubles through this scope are just wonderful, best I have ever seen👍

Dave

For the c12mm slot the Morpheus 12.5mm will be parfocal with your 9mm, the Delos will not. Also, the Morpheus is a good deal cheaper than the Delos. Alternatively, sell your Pentax XW 14mm and replace with a Morpheus 14, again with less field curvature than the XW14.

At 20mm I second Louis' suggestion of the Vixen LVW 22mm..it's definitely better IMO than the Pentax 20mm which has quite severe field curvature, the Vixen doesn't (you do lose 5deg FOV with the Vixen which is 65 degrees vs the 70 deg of the XW).

The LVW 22mm isn't easy to find used these days though..Another alternative is the Panoptic 24mm which is very highly regarded.

Good luck with completing your fine eyepiece collection 😊.

Dave

1 hour ago, Fozzie said:

.."keeping around 5kg on a shorter tube is the way to go, hence option 1 or 3.. complimenting the 100mm and gp combination..

Andy, 

Playing Devils' advocate, I am one of not very many I have seen who weren't wowed by the ED120. Many, many more owners rave about theirs, including some really well respected SGL members. If it's at all possible for you to look through one, I'd thoroughly recommend that you do so before your final decision - then that decision will be informed by your own experience.

Another idea slightly from left field..how about a 150mm Maksutov as your "larger aperture scope?" Very short, and not too heavy, probably 5-6kg, so ideal on a GP. The superb Intes Alter M603 or Intes Micro MK66 or MK67 (all 6" F10) all come up now and again for between £400-£600, and are all excellent - they are apochromatic, quite quick to cool down, full aperture (not stopped down like the SW150 Mak is) and, being Russian, pretty much bomb proof.

They will deliver views similar to a 5" Apo frac, take very high magnification on a good night, but won't do wide field as well due to the longish focal length..but you could then sell your Altair F11 and get a 4" or even 5" F5 Refractor for that ( and CA is not a big issue for wide field apart from very bright stars line Vega - you'd be using low to medium powers anyway in such a scope).

Decisions, decisions..🤔

Dave

Hi Andy,

I hope you and yours are well?😀

I freely admit I'm biased but I'd go option 2 but not for Altair, but for a used Vixen ED103s.

I've owned two of these and at F7.7 they are, I feel, an ideal compromise between F7 and F9, so can do pretty wide field and great for planetary, close doubles, lunar etc. These scopes are a later "replacement/descendant" of the legendary Vixen FL102s, so I believe Vixen knew they had to be top notch to try and fill the FL102's boots?

I only sold the first one to help fund my Tak FS128, and the second as someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse and I needed the cash as I faced early retirement/redundancy.

For a few months I owned both the FS128 and the ED103s and so was able to do several comparisons. Honestly, on most nights the difference wasn't that much. I think that for UK/Northern European conditions, ie not brilliant most of the time, a quality 4" is a great "only" scope. The FS128 will definitely show more planetary detail than the Vixen on perhaps 5 or 10 nights in a year, but most of the time the gap is very small. I got my first split of Sirius and the Pup with the ED103s, something I've never managed with another 4" frac.

I have also owned the scope you have, well, the Lyra Optic version Kunming 102/F11 achromat. It was a fine scope and I liked it. But the Vixen is in a different class optically, and has almost zero CA at all visually. It's also more impressive to look at (it has a lightweight oversized 114mm tube), is shorter,  and has a better lens cell to suit the high quality lens. I personally also prefer a good rack and pinion focuser to a crayford which can often slip under load. 

I have also owned several larger F8 achromats. They can be fun and do go deeper of course, but they do have significant CA and are very large and heavy. I found myself opting for a lighter 4" for shorter, often unplanned sessions as they were less hassle to set up and put away. They do say the best scope is the one you use most, and I have no doubt that that is true, for me at least. I am very fortunate to now own an FS128..but for many years I couldn't, and I'd have been very happy with either of my Vixens as my only scope: their ED optics really are first class.

There is a very nice sounding ED103s on UKABS at the moment I believe, at £700  - that's well under half the new price and at that price most of the depreciation has gone: I'm not sure that the same can be said for Altair scopes?

The SW ED120 should be considered, as so many people speak so highly of them. I owned two, an Equinox and DS Pro and just couldn't take to them. The colour might have been part of it, but not the major factor: the Equinox was a lovely looking scope in gloss black with silver coloured accents, and I had no issues with its' looks. I just didn't find the views engaging enough.."Go Figure", as our US friends would say!

Good luck with your decision.

PS, if you do find an ED114s at a good price, snap it up, it will be just as good quality as the ED103s - buy I've only ever seen one used one for under £1k..

Below is a shot of my last ED103swt on a CG4 in a Tak FS102 clamshell (the ED103 tube is the same diameter as the FS102, ie 114mm)

Dave

1 hour ago, JeremyS said:

A very nice set Dave, @F15Rules.

Just a question about the AE lens. Is the reason why there is no coating because it has been completely licked off?

🙂

PS that FS128 OG looks scrumptious!

Hi Jeremy,

Well it was a Jim Hysom lens apparently, so maybe he licked it as part of the polishing process?

Come to think of it, I did read somewhere that it was fully coated on external surfaces with "Saliva Sulphate" I think it was called? 😉😁

Yes, the Tak doublet set is very attractive, thanks - but absolutely NO Licking!!

I think one of the most lickable looking OG's  I ever saw was the TAL 100r early version, just a gorgeous bluish purple hue..

See photo below, showing the newer TAL100 RS lens on the left and the older, bluer TAL100R lens on the right (Neil English photo credit). I know which one I'd rather lick!!🤣😂

..and, having owned a number of both, the earlier bluer coated lens was noticeably better than the RS100 one IMHO too!

Dave

Wherever they are made, they are wonderful eyepieces!🤗👍

Dave

Here are some current and past scope lenses (and 2 corrector plates from Maks) - both very lickable!!

From the top:

Two shots of my FS128 - 'nuff said😍

Two shots of Vixen ED103s, first with dirty objective and second after a good clean!😱 - superb, underrated scopes, half the used cost of a Tak or less, and very nearly as good!

Shot of both FS128 and ED103s together

Pentax J80 F12 achromat - wonderful old achromat

Ylena/Lomo150mm Mak - brilliant Mak - think 5" Apo images when thermally stable

Orion OMC140 Hilux - very nice, easy to use high power scope

Meade/Bresser 127L F9.4 achromat - a very decent scope and I believe this one went to John Huntley here on SGL..I think John liked it too, as I recall..

And finally...very nice vintage AE of Luton 4.5" F14 refractor - actually an uncoated lens, but still, er, very lickable! 

Dave

4 hours ago, JeremyS said:

As I said elsewhere, I'm done with the eyepieces now

🤣😂🤣

Oooh..you DO make I laugh, Jeremy!!!

The Pocket Sky Atlas gets my vote, especially if you are a relative newcomer to the hobby. It's small, and spiral bound, so easier to use than the Cambridge (which is a nice "fireside cold evenings" resource, and also available spiral bound, but a bit big for field use I feel).

I can't speak for the online/digital atlases, as for me, the last thing I want to look at outside is my phone screen - I see enough of that during the day!

Like John, I do take the odd photo of the moon etc (and some of them are Very Odd!) with my phone now and again, but I find that manually holding my phone above the eyepiece is usually more trouble than it's worth..maybe I should get a mobile phone holder, but my new Android phone has its camera at the side of the phone rather than in the centre, so I'm not sure it would even be compatible with most holders?

I also find that it helps me to pre -prepare an observing list before going outside, and maybe have a pair of binoculars handy to help finding fainter objects if the sky is bright due to Light Pollution, the Moon, or high summer, like now, when it never gets properly dark...although most scopes have a finder, binoculars are very easy to use, comfortable due to using both eyes, and so useful to narrow down your initial search area so you can then use your finder to align your main scope.

HTH 🙂

Dave

Ah, yes..the Handle Hoarder is also a closet Lens Licker, I almost forgot!😂

Dave

There's nothing wrong with the Moon..it gets higher or lower in the sky at different times of the year, due to the movement of the Earth's axis..

"At night with a full moon, the moon is on the opposite side but in the same plane as the earth-sun. In winter, the axis of the earth is tilted away from the sun, which means it’s tilted toward the full moon, so it appears higher in the sky. In the summer, the opposite is true"...source - Quora online

Dave

1 hour ago, JeremyS said:

 

Interesting Jeremy..

Two Questions..

1. Did that book Signal the rise of female involvement in Astronomy?

2. (and importantly..) will you be fitting the book with a Handle??😁

Dave

Thanks Chris!

I absolutely don't do pictures or photography, and on top of that my newish phone and its' multiple-pixel-thingamejig functions are largely a mystery to me, so I was just pleased and surprised to pick up Jupiter and Saturn from inside my closed kitchen window!😂🤣

Dave

4 hours ago, Corncrake said:

Thanks for the heads-up guys, 3am wide awake, what to do,,,
oh ! scudding* clouds, a moon and yep, Jupiter and Saturn lurking amongst the branches.

Hand held, telephoto 104mm, 1/4 second !optimistic!!, f3.6, noisy 1600iso (needed to get the exp up to 1/4sec.)
Lucky shot.

*I can think of another name beginning with s

 

Lovely image!

Dave

I was in the kitchen tonight, locking up and about to turn in for the night when I noticed the full moon just clearing some trees beyond our garden.

I then noticed Jupiter right above the moon as some cloud moved away, and just on impulse took a few quick snaps with my android phone from inside the kitchen window, time approx 11.20pm.

I was please to see that I also picked up Saturn too, to the lower left of the shots..the first and darkest shot was in "night mode", (whatever that is), the others in normal mode

A nice and unexpected end to the day🙂

Dave

16 hours ago, Ags said:

Hanging in my home office now, reminding me to rise above human emotionalism...

Live long, and ponder!! 😜😁

Dave

23 hours ago, HollyHound said:

Bought from a fellow SGL forum member, and in excellent condition👍

Meade Series 3000 16mm Plossl x2

Meade Series 3000 40mm Plossl x2

These will be used for my binoviewer 😃

Cracking eyepieces!

The 16mm in particular I feel is excellent, better than most of the 4000 series.. enjoy!👍😀

Dave

55 minutes ago, Stu said:

At some point I expect Mrs Stu to try to wrap one or both of these around my head if they don’t move soon. 🤣

Stu,  what's wrong with your having a low slung traditional wood storage cabinet (clearly designed to hold Crockery and China etc), and a very useful length of white drainpipe (in case of sudden outside downpour damage resulting in the need for a fast repair) kept handy in the house?

Sounds very reasonable to me?😇 

Dave

Not a silly question, and no reason at all why you shouldn't do this.

I routinely leave my Tak set up as you describe, with all lens covers in place of course, and mine is also covered with a clean dust sheet..

Dave

3 hours ago, FLO said:

Alex, Annette, Ann, Dan, Grant, Ian, James, Katie, Lisa, Martin, Nathan, Rob & Steve

If you take on many more staff, Steve, you will have to extend your signature list to more than 3 three lines..

...that will please those SGLers who have bought (and are still buying!) loads of kit from you - they'll also need the extra Sig lines to list it all!😂.

Seriously, thanks for all the hard graft you and your team put in to offer such a great online store - and this wonderful community forum.

Dave

I live on the edge of the Lincolnshire Wolds, the skies are classed as Bortle 4, and the nearest large towns are Boston, due south, c17 miles away, and Skegness almost due east, about 15 miles.

Compared to West Leicestershire, 12m west of Leicester, where I moved here from over 3 years ago, and within 20 m of Coventry, Birmingham, Tamworth etc all around (Bortle 5/6),the skies here are much better, especially the lower in the sky you go, the darker it seems compared to the orange dome of the Midlands.

But at the moment, it really doesn't get nearly as dark, even here, as in the autumn/winter. I was out for an hour last night (until my RA drive batteries died!) from 11pm til midnight. After packing the scope away I just looked up for a few minutes, and although I could see many more stars than at 11pm, I couldn't see the Milky Way (normally this shows structure and lanes overhead), and couldn't see all the main Little Plough (Ursa Minor) asterism stars with the naked eye.

However, I don't think last night's poor visibility was just down to summer short nights: the transparency wasn't great - although the seeing was very good. This often happens, I find: the best observing of planets, moon, double stars etc is on nights of good seeing, while the best views of clusters, nebulae, globulars and other deep sky objects are often when the stars really twinkle, and the atmosphere feels really "clean" - such as after rain for example.

Dave

2 hours ago, markse68 said:

Doesn’t it depend what you’re looking at though? I mean a 20mm gives me a lovely full moon disk but if I want to see crater details something shorter is needed? And Jupiter is pretty small in a 20. Perfectly formed and super contrasty but a bit small to see much detail

On 18/06/2020 at 08:29, Alan White said:

Any thoughts on this?   And any thoughts on options going forward for this one special slot?

 

Of course, you are right Mark. But the OP, Alan, was specifically asking for views/options at or around the 20mm mark 🙂.

It does depend a lot on your scope of choice as well, and which objects you're viewing..

In my own case, I'd say that the 2 eyepiece focal lengths I go for most often are at 10.5mm and 18mm (now 17.5mm having replaced my lovely Tak 18mm MC ortho with my sublime Morpheus 17.5mm), with quite regular use of higher powers (5 to 8mm, mainly doubles and Luna/planets), and low power (28-30mm) for clusters etc.

At this time of year, with very little actual darkness, I'd be happy to use any focal length under a properly dark sky! 🤣

Dave

That's interesting Mike.

My best ever views of M42 (note: not the Trapezium, but the whole nebula) were through a Vixen LVW 22mm on a very good night.

The contrast was so amazing, jet black sky background, pinpoint stars all over and the detail within the Batwings and Fishes Mouth were just wonderful.

Also, the LVW barlowed very well, so with a good x2.25 Barlow I could turn the LVW into a very nice x100+ medium power unit but still with good eye relief.

I also have really liked other eyepieces of around this focal length: my Pentax 20mm XW was also very nice, but came a clear second vs the LVW22 in a prolonged head to head on M42. Also, I had several Ultima LX's a few years back and for me the 22mm was the pick of the range.

Slightly longer was the ES24mm 68 degree, again a lovely eyepiece. And now I have the Morpheus 17.5mm which offers 76deg and I'm so looking forward to M42 with it this winter.

I also found the Celestron Ultima Japan 18mm and equivalent pseudo Masuyamas to give great views.

Although each of the above had different main strengths, thinking about it now, they all offered a combination of comfortable viewing, nice eye relief, GREAT contrast and nice "framing" of the views combining context of the view and detail visible.

So I think Alan is right, the 20mm range + or - c 3 or 4mm, does seem to offer a real sweet spot for visual observers👍🙂

Dave

1 hour ago, Saganite said:

I have had all of the LVW range at different times and I agree wholeheartedly that the 22mm is the 'standout' performer. I would have chosen a pair of these over the 24mm Pans that I have but in a bino, they left no room for my snozzle

So, Steve, you're saying that if you had differently dimensioned facial features, who "nose", you might now have an LVW22 mm pair??😂🤣

Dave