Davesellars

I've just up some binoviewers with my 80ED and managed to get to come to focus without a diagonal... not the most comfortable but better than nothing since the sun was getting low at least...

However, both my Wife and I were able to see a many objects in the background (not going across the Sun) flying a different velocities and brightness and angles...  Are these satellites and space debris being observed and considerably reflected by the Sun such that they're still visible even with the Baader filter on?  I can't think of any other explanation...

Another nice clear night...  I hadn't even bothered to take the dob in from the previous night's marathon session expecting at least to be able to get some DSO observations in.  I even made an observation list in SkySafari made up of quite a few from the excellent Caldwell list scattered with a few other objects.

Stepping out at midnight though, initially the sky was quite disappointing. After the pristine sky earlier I'd expected much better but it seemed perhaps pollutants or very high haze / whatever had spoiled the sky somewhat and I could barely see the Milky Way which wasn't a good sign...  The neighbours' lights were still on as well not helping the situation!

Undeterred, I started with something bright and not so affected by lighter sky - M13.  The glob of course is spectacular in the 12" resolving right down to the core using the 7mm Pentax.  Its "companion" galaxy was also visible, this was at least an indication that transparency was sufficient to continue for some fainter stuff a bit later.

First though, while I waited for the neighbours to switch off their lights and hopefully get a bit more darkness I went on to M57..  Again, using the 7mm Pentax for 214x was a nice power which showed the bright oval "doughnut" of the nebula well.

On to M27.. Which I'd realised I hadn't oberved for at least 4 years! Not sure how I'd not come back to this one seen as it's really a fantastic example and just how much an OIII filter improves the view.  Without a filter, the nebula is large and very obvious but the shape is quite indistinct, although the brighter central region is still obvious as well as the extension.  With an OIII filter, the nebula becomes a completely different beast, the central "hour-glass" form stunningly prominent with the two lobes also shown extensively.  The Baader 10nm filter with the further restricted bandwidth actually gave a significant boost in contrast for these lobes over the Astronomik filter.  I tried the UHC filter which gave a "boosted" version of what could be seen without a filter but was far from the view with the OIII.  A Hbeta filter showed only the central hour-glass with perhaps slightly more brightness added to the top and bottom of this shape.

OK, so after spending a reasonable amount of time with M27, finally I'd got a bit more darkness back - The Milky Way was visible but without any structure.  On my list was the NGC 6888 - The Crescent Nebula, which is a new observation.  Initially a little difficult to find among the rich starfield, I managed to determine its position and fortunately could just about make out a slight arcing nebulosity without any filter.  I selected the Baader OIII together with a 32mm Plossl for maximum exit pupil to increast the contrast for the filter and this seemed to give a good result.  The nebulosity was very obvious arcing around denser region of stars in the Milky Way.  It reminded me a little of a smaller / much less brighter version of the Veil.  I think this will show quite a bit better on a night of excellent transparency though.

With the OIII / 32mm Plossl still in place, I headed to the North American Nebula, NGC 7000.  Obviously the nebula is much more massive that the field of view so I tried to concentrate on certain regions around edges of the nebulosity and could certainly see distinct brightning of the background to then sudden darkess in areas.  I think next time, I may try this again with the 120ST which is capable of getting in the entire nebula.

A switch now from nebulae to galaxies...  NGC 7331 in Pegasus with the 10mm Delos was quite a view - it seemed to have real depth at the core with extensive dust surrounding it.  Its companion galaxy, NGC7335 was also quite obvious although very small.

A short hop from NGC 7331 is Stephan's Qunitet - I applied more power using the 7mm pentax for 214x after I could just about discern a very faint small field of smudges.  The extra power did not really help much though and I think this may be to do with the transparency.

Moving on to M33, the key factor of transparency was very much more apparent to what I'd encountered the previous night.  the same eyepiece used: The 28mm Maxvision, but tonight the galaxy was ghost-like, barely on the edge of visibility.

Further up to M31 it was a little better, M110 showing again very well with M31's dust lanes quite extensive.  I tried for the bright nebula, NGC 206 in M31 but I could not make this out from the dust of the galaxy.  Perhaps, I should have used the OIII or UHC filter in order to attempt top bring this out...  I shall attempt this again anothe night.  G1, the little glob I tried to find, but I failed to discern its whereabouts, with the lack of really good indicative stars to help.

I was just about able to get to Saturn, however the seeing was not great. Nice image though, although with the 102ED it was far better the previous night!

Jupiter - Quite a surprise as I pointed the scope to this to see 2 shadow transits from Io and Ganymede.  Some nice detail of whorls within the belts very occasionally with the 7mm Pentax at 214x although the seeing was seriously variable.   I stayed observing Jupiter for quite a while with the transits until Io actually was inside Jupiter's disc along with the GRS...  Io was actually sitting right on top of it.  Although the GRS itself was exceptionally difficult to make out properly at this point (it does seem the colour is not as intense as the 4 or 5 years ago?)

I finished up with Mars but the seeing was nowhere near good enough.  I could just about make out an indistinct dark region.

Finishing up close to 4am, it had been a nice productive night despite not ideal conditions...  I still have 18 items on my list I didn't get to...  Perhaps tonight....

4 nights in a row for me & last couple of nights have been over 4 hours each session to after 4am...  Am feeling a bit punch-drunk today though!!!    I could probably use a night off but the lure of a clear sky is strong.....  

Pulled another 4 hour session!  The transparency wasn't quite like the previous couple of nights and was quite variable but still bagged quite a few DSOs.  The seeing was pretty rough at times but watched the double shadow transit. So fun having Jupiter back in a decent position again!

Looking superb at the moment...  Absolutely pristine sky (fingers crossed it stays that way!).   The very low down Moon looks very nice naked eye (too low down to the scope to it from by back though!)

My 12" dob is still out from last night ready in anticipation of a big session DSO hunting...

1 hour ago, josefk said:

I enjoyed that Dave. Thanks. I am finding all these different experiences (mini data points) from different observers using different kit but on the same targets and on the same nights a really useful classroom :-). Would you say the difference on the Veil in the two viewings in the same night and using the same filter for you was defined by the difference in the apertures 4" vs 12"? 

Cheers

Hi there.  Yes, very much so - the difference in 4" to 12" in light capture is massive and for DSOs, the saying that aperture is king is absolutely true.  You cannot expect a 4" instrument to even come close to show what 12" can given all other factors being equal.   However, for certain objects the 4" refractor I've found preferential - particularly the larger open clusters as stars are perfect in an APO refractor and the refractor more easily gives you that wider view than a large aperture reflector.   That being said... The 4" refractor is very capable on other DSOs in sufficiently dark skies as long as you've managed your expectations.

Where the refractor really shines though imho (and the reason why I bought it) was for planetary and lunar observation - even though the 12" reflector again will beat it due to increased resolution - the difference is not "that" massive in my findings so far.   A lot of the time, I don't want to be lugging out the 12" for an observation session of 30 mins whereas I can be ready with the refractor in minutes and get great enough performance to capture those windows of opportunity that we typically only get in the UK rather than a long session!

Good to hear you've had a great experience with your new Starfield refractor!  They are really great scopes and my last couple of sessions with it seem to prove that is can pull really good detail on Jupiter (just put up an observation report myself using the refractor alongside my 12" dob...)

7 minutes ago, russ said:

Last couple of nights I have found very little difference between the 4" refractor and the 10" Newt on Saturn and Mars. The refractor did equally well this morning pulling surface markings from Mars as the Newt did the previous night. And I think the nights were pretty much the same. I observed Saturn early on 11:00pm and it was simply too low and not great. Some banding and Cassini, in fleeting moments of good seeing. Both scopes gave an equal view, atmosphere looked to be the limiting factor.

On Jupiter the newt was decidedly better than the refractor. It was pulling crazy amounts of detail. In isolation the 4" was good.

Anyway, superb read.

Yep, I agree.  Although I've not been able to use the dob on Saturn as with Saturn being so low, the wall and low hedges just block the view.  The refractor, obviously sitting higher anyway just avoids this problem.  However, my observation of Mars a couple of nights ago with the 4" refractor and pushing the magnification to approx 300+ with a barlow on the 5mm Pentax showed an outstanding clarity of surface detail - much more than I expected!

After having a couple of hours sleep, I woke up at midnight refreshed with the plan to get a good session in mainly concentrating on the planets.

The sky was amazingly transparent (for the second night running!).  The Milky Way already easily visible although a couple of lights from houses were still an annoyance until they shut off at around 1am.  The seeing also seemed to be pretty good.

I set up the 102ED refractor on the Alt/Az and immediately got to work with Saturn after a short cool down with it being lower down had a much shorter window of opportunity to view it.

Saturn just seems to give more with further magnification and this refractor just continues to surprise me how well it handles high power without it going mushy at all.  With the 5mm Pentax XW for 143x, the Cassini division was sharply defined, however at approx 220x with the 2.2(ish)x Barlow with the 7mm Pentax was spectacular and perhaps the sweet spot, with the Cassini division very clear and reasonble in size and also now more surface detail of the planet itself as the brightness was now brought down sufficiently.  Using the barlow with the 5mm Pentax for approx 2.2mm and 325x I half expected the view to break-down somewhat however the view was still mainly good but too dependant on the seeing level and my ability to track suffiently with stability on the alt/az mount (not recommended for this level!).  I would say though that the ideal contrast has been reached somewhere between the two powers of 220x and 325x though as with moments where I could get it stable enough at this high power the view was really quite something.

I was now "waiting" for Jupiter to come up sufficiently so I switched to doing the rounds of some DSOs.

M33 - After being able to see this easily with the binoculars the previous night, I chose the largest focal length I had (a 32mm Baader Plossl) to maximise exit pupil and this seemed to work well although M33 was a mere ghost on glimpsing into view and would be easily missed if you didn't know what you're looking for.  Using higher power just made it worse.

M31 - Sufficiently large view with the 32mm Plossl to encompass the all three galaxies with a touch of structure of M31 coming through but very subtle.

Veil Nebula - Again with the 32mm Plossl to maximise exit pupil together with the Astronomik OIII.  Conditions were considerably better that a previous week where I'd attempted this and not really got a good view of the Western Veil.  However this time it was nice and obvious but with little detail.  The Eastern Veil showed a touch more and came though as large bright arc of nebulosity in the eyepiece but without any definition.

North America nebula - With the 32mm Plossl and the Hbeta this was very diffuse and difficult to see such a large object.

M57 - The Ring Nebula was a lovely sharp view with the Pentax XW perfectly framed within the starfield.  Further power trying the 5mm Pentax XW diminished it rather too much for my liking.

M102 - Small but the galaxy was reasonably bright.

NGC 5907 - Its extremely low surface brightness made this one very difficult to observe - it was on the edge of vision with averted vision necessary to bring it out.

Approaching 2am by this point it was time to view Jupiter as it had risen sufficiently, The GRS was just about on the edge of going out of view by this point and viewing through the 7mm Pentax I could just about make this out. With the 5mm Pentax giving 143x, this seemed to be a really good power still giving excellent contrast of the planet's subtle details.  Trying with the barlow for 220x in my view was too much, although the main belts were larger the detail in and around was much more difficult to discern.

After a little while viewing Jupiter, my 12" dob started to call to me from the conservatory...  I would probably be heading to bed with regret if I didn't go for it with the quality of the sky like this.  Therefore, I did the only sensible thing at 2:30am and set it up.  Fortunately, it doesn't take long and after collimation was good to go...  I thought I'd let the scope settle down to ambient temperature before observing Jupiter with it and its lower position meant I needed to wait a little while for Jupiter to rise even more anyway....  So back to some DSOs to take advantage of the exceptional clarity.

Back to M33..  and with the 28mm Maxvision eyepiece this was now very obvious as a nebulous blob however I couldn't make out any structure.

M31 / M32 / M110 - This just blew me away with the 28mm eyepiece.  I wouldn't normally use such a large exit pupil viewing galaxies sticking to the 17.3mm Delos for most observations and dropping down to 10mm for detail... but this was quite the revelation in a decently dark sky.  M31 showed real structure for the first time with dark lanes easily discernable. The view just about got it M32 and M110 in the same field with M110 really showing brightly and extended.  Best view I've ever had of this group!

Dropping down to Mirach and viewing Mirach's Ghost (NGC 404) with the same eyepiece showed a decent extension of the main core.

Back to the Veil...  With the 28mm without any filter I could just about make out a touch of the Western Veil around 52 Cyg but it was very faint.  I had to switch here to the 32mm Plossl as I only have 1.25" filters but once using the OIII , the nebula stood out immensely.  The knotting / twisting nature of the Western Veil was very apparent and beautiful to follow along the entire length.  The middle section of the Veil (NGC 6974) while much more difficult was just about visible.  The Eastern Veil showed incredible structure with wisps of nebulosity all over the place with incredible contrast.  The only shame was that with the Plossl, the view is not fully immersive like you get when jumping up to 68 degrees as with the Maxvision.

Now Jupiter had risen high enough it was time to back to this and leave the DSOs for another night perhaps for a dedicated session - astro dark has come to an end anyway.

So, the difference between the 12" dob and the 102ED on Jupiter...  Surprisingly not as large as I'd expected.  I used the 5mm Pentax in the 102ED for 143x and the 7mm Pentax in the Dob for 214x.  Exit pupil was twice as much in the 12" dob as the 102ED, so in theory the contrast should be better(?) than in the 102ED.

Jupiter presented exceptionally well with the 12" dob in times of great seeing.  Undulations in the main belts were quite obvious with darker / light regions becomeing visible with extended viewing at the eyepiece in one sitting.  The lighter southern equatorial belt was obviously split halfway through by a long light patch.  The NEB had multiple darker small blobs sitting in the belts.   The fine northern temperate belts were very obvious.  Colour not really distingishable though with the 12" dob.  Using more power (5mm Pentax) for 300x was really too much for the seeing tonight although occasionally good I didn't feel that the view of any details improved any (actually worse if anything).

In the 102ED by comparison, even though the exit pupil was approx 1/2 that of the dob presented visually seemingly more contrast.  Colour was still visible with a light shade of brown rather than grey.  The image was obviously smaller but comparing the two images it wasn not difficult to see the main features.  Those undulations seen in the dob were still there in the 4" refractor although a bit more time needed to be spent at the eyepiece to really capture them.  Dark and lighter regions were very easy to distinguish particularly the large ones like the lighter "streak" through the SEB as seen in the 12" dob was very obvious.  The much more subtle temperate belts are still present although finer.  The 12" dob picked up more finer detail within the belts although it was necessary to stay at the eyepiece for 20 to 30 seconds to really get these and pick them up as subtle whorls within the main belts.  That kind of detail was very difficult with the 102ED in my view.  For pure sharpness and contrast the refractor killed it and probably gave 90% of the detail of the 12" dob, however that extra 10% that the dob gave was quite spectacular to see those extra little details that occasionally popped in to view.

Finishing with Mars... I used the 5mm Pentax for 300x which gave a nice decent sized scale.  I really had to stay at the eyepiece for extended amounts of time to get the best from this as its brightness and suspetibility to seeing made it difficult, however at 300x the brightness was tamed enough for it to show large darker regions on the surface although I could not see any polar caps.

It was now getting on for 4:30am and the sky was now quite light so it was time to call it a night and get some well earned rest...

Looking good for another session tonight - I think purely on DSOs if the transparency is anything like it has been for the last couple of nights!

2 nights in a row the sky transparency has been off the scale!  Had a fantastic session last night from midnight to 4:30am with both the 4" refractor and the 12" dob.  I had a stunning view of the Veil nebula with incredible structure to it.

Absolutely stunningly clear here tonight at 1am and very transparent.  I didn't have much energy but got out for an hour with the binoculars for a change scanning the sky.  The Milky Way was nicely clear naked eye with some structure around Cygnus as well as M31 and Double Cluster easy to see.  M33 was also very obvious with the binoculars. I believe I could just see the North American nebula although very indistinct appeared as a faint large puff of smoke.

Had an hour from 4 until 5 with the 4" refractor viewing Jupiter and Mars (a first in a long time on both planets!).  Seeing was remarkably steady although there was visible haze which would have accounted for the terrible transparency earlier one (so I didn't bother getting the scope out then...).   Some good detail on Jupiter (best with the 5mm Pentax XW) and easy to see a shadow transit and Mars, although small was very easy to make out distinct regions using the 7mm Pentax and 2.5x barlow. 

I can attest to the quality of the Starfield.  It's been nothing but excellent on DSOs, lunar and planetary (Saturn).   As mentioned previously, it's very capable with pushing the power without sharpness breaking down (as long as conditions allow).

On 25/07/2022 at 10:57, wookie1965 said:

Great report I too have not been out since April, having just broke my little toe I dont think I will be out for a couple more weeks until that settles down. It is really good to read other peoples reports when you cannot get out yourself.

Ouch!  Hope you recover quickly.   I'd been out of action for a couple of weeks this year as well after killing my back moving the 12" dob base out of the conservatory while some work needed to be done...   Sucks not to be able to observe on a clear night through self-inflicted injury!

On 16/07/2022 at 17:29, Kon said:

Great report and nice to be out in the warm night. Veil is my favourite eye candy in the summer. I saw it a few weeks ago and it was great.

Did you pick much detail on ISS? I seem to only image it and never looked through the eyepiece.

It's moving too fast to really see any real detail unfortunately, though it was a decent size in the EP - the sheer brightness doesn't help of course.

My last night out with the telescope was a good few months ago... (actually, just checking it was mid-April!!!) having been plagued with a bad virus that took 6 weeks to recover from with a large project and doing my Masters assignment at the same time and then hitting straight into zero astro-dark in June, my astro-shennigans had been well and truly scuppered.  So a lovely clear night on a Friday seemed a good opportunity to see what the sky had to offer.

It was a touch milky in areas with some very light high cloud about and we still only have astro-twilight level of darkness starting at around 11:20 which is when I set up with the 4" refractor on the Alt/Az mount...

The Moon was just coming up, but before it could spoil what darkness was was aI got round to some DSO observations...

After I'd aligned my finder on Acturus, I veered a touch to the side to find M3 nearby - A nice bright glob to start the night.

M13 really showed very nicely with the 10mm Delos showing some good detail and resolution of the cluster.

At 12ish the ISS passed almost directly over us... I quickly got my Wife who loves seeing this and she came out just before it dissappeared...  It was to come over again at 1:31am so made note and thought it would be fun to attempt to track it with the scope.

my main target for the evening was the Veil nebula in Cygnus...  It's been many years since I last observed this, although the conditions were far from ideal, but it was worth a go...  The Western Veil was only very subtle and a took a while for my eyes to really pick anything out, however going over to the Eastern Veil, this was much more apparent with a touch of detail of it with "hook" at the bottom.  I went from the 17.3mm Delos to a 32mm Baader Plossl and also a cheap 25mm Plossl with the Astronomik OIII and also switched for the Baader OIII which had a narrower bandwith pass...  I felt the Astronomik was more suitable for this aperture and couldn't see much difference from 25mm to 32mm Plossls, the brightness was definitely increased over the 17.3mm.  The Western Veil always remaining almost out of sight.

After the Veil, I took a look at M11 - The Wild Duck Cluster.  Always has been a favourite of mine and this was resolved well with the 5mm Pentax XW although with no doubt would be much better with the Moon out of play as some of the lower magnitude stars look like they had been washed out by the sky brightness that was ever more apparent.   While in the area, moved down to the nearby globular cluster NGC 6712 however I could not see this despite definitely being in the right area.  I haven't logged this one as previously observed either, so I've noted it to come back to on a better / darker evening.

A look now over to M31 and this was nicely shown along with M32 then shooting over to the Double Cluster which is a wonderful sight, whatever the Moonlight level.

The Moon now rising, along with Saturn just about rising sufficiently above a tree to be seen, however it was now 1:30 and time to see the ISS again, so my Wife came out again and we watched through the scope taking it in turns...  It's fast!!!  What a great sight though once you do get it, although very bright!  She was really happy to have seen it like this and close up.

Then, Saturn - Also a long time since I'd last seen this and my Wife also stayed out to view this as she loves viewing the planets (as long as it's not freezing cold outside...).  Despite still quite low down the air was reasonably stable and I was easily able to use the 7mm Pentax with a 2.2(ish)x Barlow for approx. 3.2mm and 225x magnification.   The rings were wonderful and sharp with 3 of its Moons easily visible.  I thought I could just about make out subtle difference in the planet surface.  I packed up around 2:15am, very happy with the session and it just now starting to get a little chilly.  Jupiter was still just too low down covered by a neighbour's large bush.  I plan to make a an early morning session to view this soon (perhaps tonight!).

Crystal clear out...  Had an hour observing the Moon - the seeing was pretty good as well.  Schickard and Herodotus region looked fantastic as well as a great view of Babbage with the central crater perfectly illuminated.

I recently bought this scope and have used on various targets (visual only) - DSOs and lunar observations.  For me, it's the perfect complement to the 12" dob.  The quality and optics are imho extremely good.

21 hours ago, Carl Au said:

There was a review by Ed Ting, a well known figure in scope reviewing circles in the states. He compared a Tak, ED100 and Technosky version of this scope. I know this going to create a reaction but he said he couldn’t tell the difference optically between the Tak and the Technosky. I am sure lots of people are about to tell me differently, but that’s what he said.

 I have tried loads of times to find the YouTube video again but can’t find it. I have even seen someone refer to it on a forum (this one I think) so I haven’t dreamt it. If anyone can find it I would be grateful. 

Not sure if you mean this one - he compares an AT115 with a Tak 4"...

Just come in as well after just over an hour out with the 4" refractor.  Seeing was not too bad at times.  Had a good look at the Straight Wall which was perfectly illuminated and just about made out Rimae Hadley.  The whole area around the Apennines Mountains was really interesting to view tonight though - loads of features.  "Thors Hammer" was also quite prominent tonight too.

I'd not heard of that one...  I have the Baader 10nm Visual which I bought quite a few years ago which is a narrower band than my Astronomik OIII (can't remember the exact figure for this now... somewhere around 12nm possibly) and there is noticable difference between the two.  The Baader I use pretty much exclusively in the 12" dob and very occasionally in the 120ST but with this it really needs to be an object with significant OIII and also use in the region of a 25 or 32mm eyepiece to get a large exit pupil.  For smaller apertures the Astronomik works much better for me.   I have a feeling that 8nm will be far too narrow for small apertures unless you're in pristine skies and using an eyepiece to give a large exit pupil.

Great report!   I trust the light high clouds must of disappeared by that time in Derbyshire?

I've found it's often the case early morning around 2 to 3am that the air is considerably clearer and subsequently darker for it.  I still need Cygnus to rise a touch further up to clear some houses but looking forward to viewing this area again, as you say before the summer light gets us!

Yep, the seeing was actually quite good.  Much better than yesterday.  It was very steady at 150x which is max that I had with the 80ED and a 4mm EP.  Some wafts of high cloud but nothing to spoil the view.  The X and V features really stood out much easier than I expected.

Thanks for the heads-up!  I ran out with the 80ED and caught the X and V features for the first time!   Even my wife came out to take a look!

Could be wrong, but it looks a bit like the vanes have been "adjusted" such that the secondary mirror support is completely off centre...  that may explain the vane(s) looking bent (and perhaps a bit twisted?) going from south to north in that picture...  Obviously, easy to check this with a ruler (or by eye even) to see if this is the case...  Whatever, the collimation looks very out on many levels.

As Stu has mentioned before, collimation would always move in transit anyway defeating the point of professional collimation although the secondary if it's well done and tightened well should not move much.

Maybe ask around to see if someone could show you how to collimate yourself. It's something you need to do anyway but for sure easier if someone shows you that knows what they're doing...