assouptro

4 hours ago, tomato said:

I think there are two schools of thought on setting up dual rigs in the UK:

1. Why would you spend even more time and money on kit that you will still hardly ever use.

2. Dual rigs make most sense in locations where imaging time is severely limited.

I subscribe to the latter view, having a dual rig has enabled me to get a complete dataset on several occasions. I think it is a smart move to pick up an 8300 camera  that’s going for a song.

It’s a good plan! 
i have to find another ed100 doublet or possibly triplet with a flat field or another tsflat2 but at least I have a dual saddle already!! 😊

3 hours ago, scotty38 said:

Bryan, quick question on the adding SHO and RGB as I sort of have similar choices now I have an L-eXtreme and UV/IR filters, I could add luminance as it were so my question.

On the second image is it the addition of RGB that has made the difference to how it looks or did you process it differently too? If the latter, what would the first image look like if processed in the same way?

Just trying to learn/understand for my own images and hope I'm making sense 🙂

Well, I wish I could tell you blow for blow but in truth I probably couldn’t repeat what I did, as I tend to play with settings without keeping notes, although I know I should! And sometimes  I can end up with a nice result. There is a lot of trial and error over a few days. Coming back to it when I have the time. 

What I think I did was add the rgb as a layer changing the layer type whilst looking at the results in real time  then played with the opacity and again cycled through the layer types until I saw something I liked, I think it was darker Colour 10 or 20% then added it again as soft light. Thanks 
when I had something I liked I copied it, took it back to Pixinsight for some deconvolution then re-added it as another layer playing again with opacity. 
when I saw something I liked (again) I reduced the stars using Annie’s actions. 
I’m really sorry I can’t give you a simple answer, and I must try and keep more notes !! 
 

cheers 

Bryan 

4 hours ago, tomato said:

Great result, I also prefer the second image, colours are spot on to my eye.

It’s already been said that great CCD cameras didn’t suddenly drop in performance just because a new generation of CMOS sensors came out. Provided the subs are taken in line with how the sensor performs then it will produce some first class results, as your image demonstrates.

I was going to sell my KAF8300 camera, but it is just too good a camera to let go.

Thanks for the comment tomato

Hang on to that camera! 
I might even get another whilst they are selling for so little  and try to setup a dual rigg so I can cut down on my acquisition time! 😊

Bryan 

12 hours ago, MartinB said:

I do like it Bryan, it's a lLovely wispy image.  The only problem is that by adding the luminence to the RGB you have ended up with the "salmon" colouration.  This is the classic HaRGB conundrum.   The ha has all that lovely data and it gets swallowed up somewhat when you combine it as RGB.  The  purist way to get around this is to create an RGB and then add the Ha to the red channel.  You can try using Ha as a luminence and play around with reducing opacity.  You will also need to tweak the colour balance.  Ha really shouldn't be applied to an RGB image as a luminence since it gets applied to B and G as well as R and this is, in theory but not always in practice, inappropriate.

I totally agree. 
I did rush this and sometimes I can be a bit impatient and too keen to share an image 

Thanks for taking the time to comment and advise 

cheers 

Bryan

10 minutes ago, TakMan said:

Really nice second go Bryan - you've got a fine combination with the rusty gold and teal blue in that image.

I still have my 8300 camera (in an SBIG body). Like Martin said, as long as you can overpower the inherent noise, the sensor performs (especially with a guide dither and decent calibration frames).

I went with the reducer on the FSQ to get it down to f/3.6 and 10 min exposures, you took the slightly longer exposure route (but retained the full bandpass of the narrowband filters) and the result paid off.

I always found the image from 18-25 subs produced a decent picture and then the quality visibly jumped again with around 30-40 subs (which was about my limit before I wanted to collect data from the other filters!)

From the sounds of it, with a CMOS camera, you could probably achieve the same result in two thirds of the time.... but some of that saved 'other third', if using the CMOS device would have been needed for the extended processing time of your computer/software - whilst dealing with all the extra shorter subs.... and then being on Amazon choosing (and then saving onto), the additional back-up device for all that extra data!

Never a free lunch in this game, hey!

Clear skies...

Damian

Thanks Damian! 

I think you have hit the nail squarely on its head! Well for me at this moment in time. 
I think I will “slowly” continue gathering data when the clouds allow and enjoy processing the small amounts of data as quickly as my processing power can 😊

Thank you for commenting on the image with such encouraging words and thank you for parting with your hard earned knowledge, that is truly appreciated. 
 

cheers 

Bryan 

35 minutes ago, teoria_del_big_bang said:

Very nice images, I too prefer the 2nd image 🙂 

Steve

Thanks Steve 

I appreciate your kind words 😊

Bryan 

46 minutes ago, MartinB said:

Great image!  I much prefer the second which has a softer feel to it.  Nicely squeezed into the frame.  

I think old CCD cameras make for a great purchase.  That Atik is a great camera and this chip has produced some jaw dropping images over the years.  Provided you use long enough subs to get over the read noise  images should be no more noisy  than CMOS.

Thanks for the comment!

I agree the first version is a bit too much. 

I posted before I had finished really! (when are we ever finished?) A bit too eager!! 

And the 383 is becoming one of my favourite cameras, even though the 460 is definitely cleaner on shorter subs

Thanks again 

Bryan 

On 05/12/2021 at 08:40, newbie alert said:

Great image Bryan

Thanks for the comment 😊

Combined the data of the SHO and RGB verions

Cheers #

Bryan

Hello again!

Whilst capturing the SHO version of this I also captured an hour each of RGB so I have mixed them with the 4.6 hours ha as a lum, tweaked it in photoshop to produce this version 

Hope you like it?

Cheers 

Bryan

Hi Stargazers 

After deciding to buy an old Atik383 I made the mistake of spending too much time on youtube and astroforums which made me question my sanity buying old noisy tech but I have really enjoyed the camera so far and I was spoiled with a couple of nights clear skies allowing me to capture enough data to put another image together 

Although I would have liked a slightly wider field of view the 383 gives me more sky than any of my other cooled cameras.

4.6 hr Ha astrodon 5nm

4 hr Oiii astrodon 3mn

4.3 hr Sii astrodon 5nm

all 20 min subs 

scope: Revelation Astro ed100 

mount: skywatcher azeq6 

guider: sx loadstar v1 with celestron off axis guider 

I dont think I'm finished with this yet but here is my latest version 

Thanks for looking 

Bryan

rev heart SHO-latest mix-pix rotated-copy.tif

Hi Starpeople 

I was rooting in an cupboard and came across a sky at night magazine from Oct 2009 

It had the winner of the astrophotographer of the year inside 

I was just starting astrophotography back then and I looked upon images like this as unobtainable, and there weren’t many of us either 

I am amazed how the hobby has changed, the technology, the techniques, the software etc and the interest! 
 

anyway, here is a quick photo of the article 

Cheers 

Bryan 

1 hour ago, ONIKKINEN said:

I meant this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001359313736.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.6f047164JGhOx6&algo_pvid=88c7fc7f-59b2-4b58-9bdc-a75b08237944&algo_exp_id=88c7fc7f-59b2-4b58-9bdc-a75b08237944-0

Comes from China directly so VAT for everyone. When i bought mine i was not charged VAT at the checkout but i think the rules changed just after that and now you pay VAT to aliexpress. You never have to pay VAT twice, if you can prove the value of the item and the already paid VAT with an invoice which you obviously can.

I’ve been looking at these 

have you got one? 
are there any issues with drivers or software? 
cheers

4 minutes ago, Stuart1971 said:

Yes and yes….

Are there any of that size that don’t suffer from amp glow? 
I rarely use flats, even with my new (to me) Atik383l as bias and dark flats seem to do the job just as well 

10 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

There is always 294mm

Is that a clean cmos? 
does it suffer from amp glow?

8 minutes ago, oymd said:

New Mono CMOS cameras are CONSIDERABLY more expensive than their OSC counterparts.

On top of that you need a filter wheel and SEVEN filters. 

I would say that a mono setup can easily amount to DOUBLE the price of a similar OSC setup, if not more.

I wouldn’t be after a full frame chip just something that will allow me to continue with my 1.25” filters 

I’d need a mortgage to change them!

And I’ll probably wait a year or 2 until they become more affordable on the second hand market as newer shinier toys attract those that can and will buy them! 
I should maybe complete 4 images with my slower older kit by then😂
 

cheers 

14 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

This is just a quick stack saved on my PC from some of the data the other night, 50 minutes of data with mono IMX571 and 3.5nm Ha filter, and same with OSC IMX571 and NBZ filter (Ha extracted using APP algorithm for dual band filter), both processed in APP, and saved as jpegs.   I think with the moon etc, this isnt a fair comparison, but I hope to have plenty of data moving forward to add to the thread if needed.

Thanks 

To surmise
mono is still king! 

I just need a new cmos mono camera when I can afford one so I can take advantage of the faster integrations 

Bryan

14 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

That really depends on whether you need to commit to several nights in order to get same quality as OSC.

 

I wouldn’t know 

I don’t have a new OSC camera so I’m not sure what I would be capable of? 

3 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Or I could just post my data that I took with my dual rig mono and OSC ☺️

4 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Or I could just post my data that I took with my dual rig mono and OSC ☺️

Yes please!

Just now, Allinthehead said:

That really depends on what your goals are. Do you want to create the finest possible image?

I am always trying to create a better version of the last attempt of an object and I’m super critical of my own work so I guess the answer is yes!

I didn’t intend starting a new cmos v used ccd thread although I can understand how we got there with quality used ccd’s now being considerably cheaper than the higher end new generation cmos cameras atm 

I’m just wondering if it’s still worth the effort to commit several nights to an object when I see so many fine examples of OSC with dual band filter versions? 

1 minute ago, Skipper Billy said:

There are loads of used mono cameras about - there is an Atik16200 with EFW3 filter wheel and a full set of filters for sale for less than £1800 on a well known astro sales site. Find me an ad for a used ZWO 6200 or 2600 for comparison 😉  (The Atik has been for sale for quite some time and not sold!)

True 

I’ve been watching it! 

15 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

To produce a pretty picture, either will be fine.

My experience - mono data with narrowband filters is just better than OSC and dual band filters, especially in any sort of bright moonlight.

Thanks for the input

I can see the attraction when skies are so rarely clear, and I wonder what the new generation of 3nm dual band filters will produce? 

Hi Stargazers 

I am sure this has been asked before, but I may have missed it?

Since CMOS cameras have become more sensitive and cleaner there has been a sea change to one shot colour cameras with dual band or quad band filters to create some impressive results.

Apart from scientific applications Is there still a benefit to plodding along with a mono camera and individual broadband/narrowband filters when attempting to produce a pretty picture? 

Cheers 

Bryan

1 hour ago, oymd said:

Sorry, last question. Moving to Astrodon, was it night and day?

I’m afraid so. 
especially Oiii

my first image with the new Oiii filter 

previously I would have had a halo to deal with on this

unfortunately I can’t remember if the Ha and Sii are astrodon or Altair, sorry 

I have since bought a 3nm Oiii to assist capturing that bandwidth under moonlight but not had the opportunity to really test it

However, now I’m dealing with the CCD/CMOS issue and considering a complete shakeup of my imaging rigg!
It never ends!! 🙄

Cheers

Bryan