Geryllax Vu

If the train were to come to a complete stop, then begin to move in reverse for a few kilometers, at a new constant velocity, v, with the caboose leading and the engine following; then this would create a new situation and require a new formula. This new formula could be considered to represent the sound wave overtaking (or catching up to) the caboose; it is a windless day, the air molecules (medium) are at rest. This leads to the following formulas related to meeting and overtaking of the sound wave and the caboose: Stare into this image to make the train reverse its motion!!! ♦ time = distance / velocity ♦ [L - vt2] / c = t2 (meeting) ♦ or ♦ [L + vt1] / c = t1 (overtaking) With meeting or overtaking, the path length or distance, L, will increase or decrease due to the motion or velocity of the object in a certain direction and with a certain magnitude. In the forms as listed above, the motion of the train is going along with or is contrary to the motion of the sound wave. These formulas resemble the MM experimental equations for the reflection of a wave at hard surface: ♦ L / (c + v) = t2 (meeting) ♦ or ♦ L / (c - v) = t1 (overtaking) As I have shown before the observer on the train uses the following formula to find the train velocity: L = ct2 + vt2 (meeting), or, L = ct1 - vt1 (overtaking). However, the observer at relative rest in the rest area will also use the same formulas. This emerges as a result of the idea that the displacement along the x-axis in a reference frame (whether the reference frame is regarded as in motion or at rest), may be represented by x2 - x1 = L. In a reference frame moving with constant velocity relative to the resting frame, by the Galilean transformation this displacement is represented by (x2 + vt) - (x1 + vt) = x2- x1 = L. Thus the formula L = ct2 + vt2 , or L = ct1 - vt1 applies to the motion of the train from the viewpoint of each reference frame. Each reference frame measures the identical time on a clock, and each observer (one at rest, and one in motion) has a means to find the velocity of the train, v, by the same formula (L = ct ± vt), which is not the simplest form of the law or equation of motion (v = [d /t]).

The mathematical value of the speed of light, c was first discovered as being very large, but finite, by Danish astronomer Olaf Roemer in 1676. During his astronomical observations of Jupiter and the eclipses of its many moons, he calculated the speed of light to a very close approximation. The light covered across the vast distance to the Earth, L, as the moon ventured in and out of Jupiter‘s shadow, at various points of the yearly seasons as both planets orbited the Sun. He was able to compare the times, t, from several observations of Jupiter’s eclipses to arrive at c. In 1879, Scottish physicist James Clerk Maxwell proposed, in a letter to American astronomer David Peck Todd, to extend Roemer’s experiments to find the speed, v, of the Earth-Jupiter tandem as the Solar System celestially circumnavigated through the Aether of deep space. At certain times of its yearly orbit, the Earth is in a very advantageous position to observe the moons, such as Io, of Jupiter pass through its shadow, created by the Sun. When Io emerges from this shadow, or eclipse, this event is observable on the Earth. If the E-J tandem were at rest in space/Aether, then the light would experience a delay of t = L / c over and above the time for Io to make a single orbit of Jupiter, from shadow to shadow. This is the difference as determined by comparing the orbit times between two or more eclipses. At various points of the year this delay, L / c, is longer or shorter, because, as speculated by Roemer, the distance, L, between Earth and Jupiter is changing. By some mathematical acrobatics, Roemer was able to isolate c, and solve for its value. So Maxwell speculated that there was an unaccounted component due to the Solar System’s (with the Earth and Jupiter in it) velocity through interstellar space. To find this velocity, v, became his goal. By making his astronomical observations when Jupiter takes their least amount of time (shortest, L, or L - vt2) between eclipses of Io, and then waiting until the eclipses take their greatest time (longest, L, or L + vt1) for an orbit, then Maxwell concluded that he could introduce the velocity, v of the Solar System. These two formed a tandem in which their distance apart, L, was aligned with the hypothetical motion of the SS through space. From this, Maxwell thought that based on astronomical observations at these opposite extremes, the delays would be different. The light is traveling alternately, with and against the motion of the SS. Then he supposed that he could introduce L / (c + v) and L / (c - v); then add these values (I have chosen to add rather than subtract, [2Lc] / [c² - v²], from Michelson-Morley) to solve for the velocity of the SS (and E-J tandem), v. According to Einstein’s STR the delay due to the motion of the planets vanishes in the warping of space-time formulas. But astronomical observations have not made a statement confirming or denying the existence of this small delay which could be due to the velocity of the Solar System. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_R%C3%B8mer http://ether.wikiext.org/wiki/Maxwell_1879_en

Exactly! Mums do keep a lot of secrets. We are at rest, and in motion at the same time, it seems. Physics plays a cruel trick on us. But I am getting a glimpse at the man behind the curtain (Wizard of Oz). If I can get this to work, then maybe there will a little less philosophical paradox in our lives.

The principle of relativity as annunciated by Galileo, Newton, Einstein, and others, states that no mechanical experiment can be done in an enclosed room that could detect the absolute motion of the room. There may not be anything such as absolute motion, only statements of relative motion expressed by mathematical formulas; but I hypothesize that the following thought experiment outlines a way of defining an intermediary motion that arises from some Aether, that resides between absolute motion and relative motion. This is in contradiction to any form of Relativity that has been expressed by modern science. Suppose a long train with several cars, a caboose, and a locomotive engine, travels down a long level section of track at a constant velocity, v. There is an observer in the caboose and an engineer in the locomotive car. It is a windless day (still air, motionless medium). This observer might ask: can I find the speed of the train relative to the air, or another observer at rest on a nearby platform (both at rest relative to train)? She has a light source (a lantern, maybe) to send a signal to the locomotive car and engineer. This light signal is effectively instantaneous over this short distance. He blows the whistle when he receives the signal (disregarding reaction time). If she starts her clock when she sends the light signal, then she can measure the time, t, for her to hear the returning sound signal (speed of sound, c; c is a symbol for sound and light, and represents a constant, no addition of velocities). Thus, during the same time that the train is in forward motion, the whistle sound wave is in rearward motion. She speculates that she will meet the sound pulse somewhere within the distance, D, from the engine to the caboose. By algebra, with the opposite endpoints of D as the starting places of the caboose’s motion, and the sound wave’s motion: ♦ D = ct + vt (t = t) ♦ v = [D / t] - c Is she correct in thinking that she can find the velocity, v, of the train based on this total time, t; which she measures on her single clock? She imagines that this thought experiment assails the wall of separation between reference frames; between the reference frame attached to the moving train, and the other reference frame attached to the platform which is considered at rest. She has found a method for determining her speed relative to the earth; based only on information available from within the reference frame attached the train. She is furthermore sharing in the motion of train (she is at rest relative to the train). The Newtonian laws of motion do not take their simplest form in either reference frame. Instead, each takes on a form related to the Galilean transformation equations (similar to the Michelson-Morley formulas: L = ct + vt; t = L / [c + v]). That is, in both the moving frame, and the frame at rest, the distance, L, between the two starting points stays the same. Despite the Galilean transformation, the distance, L, will be preserved across reference frames (L = (x2 - vt) - (x1 - vt) = x2 - x1 = L; the vt‘s have cancelled out). The observer at rest in the rest area will note that the caboose is in motion, as well as that the sound wave is in motion. But the times measured in each reference frame will be the same, thus allowing the observer on the caboose to solve for v, the velocity of the train. This contradicts the principle of relativity once again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIGO The artifice underlying Einstein’s STR is the mathematical construct that the two reference frames are represented by different equations, or laws of motion; but from within a reference frame an observer cannot distinguish whether he or she is in motion or at rest, based on mathematical observations from within the reference frame. An outside observer can make the distinction. For sound waves, my thought experiment shows that these formulas are the same and are not the simplest form of the laws of motion. The unassailable wall between reference frames has been breeched by my pace car experiment. For light waves, it may be just a matter of time for this light wave from beneath its black pall; that a reference frame may regarded as at rest, when in actuality it is in motion. But mathematical laws for bodies at rest were indistinguishable from bodies in motion by the principles of relativity, and the construct of reference frames. Now this dreamstate has been intruded upon by the presentation of my thought experiment. For a sound source in motion, my thought experiment shows the breakdown of the artifice of the principles of relativity. The equation of motion laws have been assailed. They no longer take their simplest form in either reference frame; neither the one regarded as at rest, nor the one regarded as in motion. However, or a light source in motion, the artifice stands impregnable. The Null Result of the MM experiment provides a sturdy defense. The motion of the light source is cloaked in invisibility, hiding behind the bending of the space-time continuum; whatever that may be, mathematics or reality, mathematics is not reality. Thus for light, can this wall of separation ever be scaled? I do not know. In Livingston, Louisiana and Hanford, Washington, USA the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory (LIGO) conducts experiments to detect gravitational waves; these waves were predicted by Einstein in his General Theory of Relativity. They have not detected any as yet. So I have come up with an alternative use of the facilities while they are waiting to catch a Gravitational Wave. The facility is a multi-kilometer sized Michelson-Morley interferometer intended to measure interference from two light beams reflected by mirrors along two long enclosed arms, or corridors, perpendicular to each other. My thought experiment will require only the single arm parallel to the earth‘s motion in its orbital path around the sun. Instead of a light emitter at the intersection of the two arms, there is a sound cannon at this axis or origin point. At the end of this arm is a sound sensor that activates a light emitter. Since the air molecules are pretty much motionless in this enclosed corridor, they will follow the course of the motion of the corridor. This is a consideration that will have an effect on the form of the law of motion of the sound pulse through the still air. The air and corridor are motionless relative to each other in the reference frame attached to the earth. Thus the sound cannon and the sound sensor/light emitter configuration form a tandem that are at rest relative to one another but are on the earth as it hurtles through the Cosmos at the velocity, v; a velocity, a motion, as seen by an observer at rest not on the Earth. Essentially the roles of the light and sound have been reversed in this thought experiment. The light receiver and a clock are moving towards the light source, creating a scenario that is similar to the pace car thought experiment. The sound source and the light source are moving in tandem relative to Space (Aether?). Since the experiment takes place in a closed corridor, sound will adhere to the principle of relativity as regards the air molecules; but light has only Einstein’s accounting for this scenario of motion, since he accepts that light waves can travel where there is no medium. This leads to a very similar scenario that involves sound waves (which violate Galilean invariance), which could be solved with a simple mechanical application. Whereas, light solves the situation by means of the complicated application of the STR (Lorentz transformation, length contraction, and time dilation, etc.) involving the alteration of space. As compared with sound, light, in the STR, does not adhere to this violation the same way. With no mathematical or scientific justification, other than that the equations work. All that is solid melts into air, as space and/or the Aether remain unexplained mysteries. So if a similar scenario to the sound configuration/pace car is set up for light, the time for light to make its return flight will be according to Einstein t = L / c. It is only my speculation that a precise clock could be made to measure a time minutely different from t = L / c, such as t = L / (v + c). But Einstein says this difference is impossible to access. By some transmutation of space, or the Aether, due to the velocity of the object, it cannot be measured. His definition of Space and Reality does not allow it. because his definition of reality imagines it is not there. A precise enough clock already exists that could measure this time difference over this long distance, between the earth in motion (velocity) to that of the earth at rest. Maybe this thought experiment would be successful. But the null result of the MM experiment to detect the Aether wind, and STR time dilation and length contraction denies the possibility of detecting this time difference. The time will follow the usual law of Newton and thus be different in two reference frames moving with a constant velocity relative to each. The Lorentz transformation and time dilation are to account for this conceptual difference. If she starts her precise clock at the moment that she fires the sound cannon then the time for the sound pulse to travel L, is t = L / c (because the air molecules though motionless within the sealed corridor, they are moving at the same velocity of the earth). The time for the returning light pulse , would be however, according to classical mechanics, L / (c + v) which would account for the forward motion of the earth and light receiver (through the Aether wind of MM) meeting the light pulse traveling in the opposite direction, by algebra.. If the earth were at rest, then the total time for this experiment would be T = [L/c] + [L/c] combining the time for the sound to travel down the corridor, and the time for light to travel back along the corridor. And thus this is the total time put forward by the principle of relativity and STR. For a wave (sound or light) violating Galilean invariance this is L / (c + v). If a train of the same length as the LIGO observatory were traveling across the flat featureless landscape, then the sound waves traveling back towards the caboose would travel a shorter distance than L because of the train’s forward motion. On a windless day, this is because the motion of the train is disconnected from the stationary air (medium). But in the long narrow laboratory of LIGO, there is no medium for the light to interact with, that can even remotely unmask or explain the Earth’s motion. So, we are left only with mysteries, shadows, and suspicions. According to classic mechanics, and the MM experiment, the total time would be T = [L/c] + [L/(c+v)] This is a small but measurable difference according to the construction of my thought experiment. But according to STR, time dilation and length contraction this difference vanishes. What should arise from the motion of the earth, disappears into space-time. Einstein’s STR attributes and conforms the difference in times due to an alteration in the fabric of space; not an alteration directly linked to, or coming out of the Earth’s velocity. Currently there is research being done in the area of Quantum Theories which predicts that at the subatomic level, there is a violation of Lorentz invariance by electromagnetic waves. This may provide fertile ground for the possibility of conducting some form of this thought experiment.

I I want to definitely encourage you to pursue finding the transition point between sound wave phenomena and light wave phenomena. I was thinking along similar lines; "faster than the speed of sound." My journey began with my misinterpretation of the Null Result of the MM experiment. And as often happens in science, finding the incorrect answer to a particular question leads to the correct answer for a completely different question. Einstein’s relativity may be out of reach but Newtonian and Galilean relativity have broken down with the application of my hypothesis. I think I have made a previously unseen, or scientifically unseen, phenomena but everyone knew it was there. So as Einstein artificially constructed this entire theory of reality, this unseeable reality, then he tried to sneak it in the back door with the Lorentz transformation and bending of space-time to account for what he knew was there, but could not measure. The artifice of the maths in one reference frame as being the observer at rest; and an observer in another frame as accounting for the motion of the first observer, still mathematically irks me, sorry, but the equations unquestionably work. I think that the seemingly unassailable high, thick, walls between reference frames as put forward by the principles of relativity, crumble like Jericho’s walls under an attack of sound waves as from the Shofars of the Israelites. So I think I will leave an attack on Einstein and Light and Astronomy for someone much smarter than me, maybe I will write a book on Acoustic Relativity, for now. I offer as a possible starting point, that while Einstein begins with c as the speed of light, and then defines our mathematical reality; I begin with c as the speed of sound, and work up from there. http://gerrybharris.blogspot.com/

A scene is acted out in the theatre of her mind, as kilometer post after kilometer post silently count the length of her journey. It is the principle of relativity that struts and storms across the stage. According to which, all laws of motion take their simplest form within a single inertial reference frame when that reference frame is attached to a body. In any other reference frame considered attached to a moving observer then there is defined a Galilean transformation which defines a mathematical relationship between the object and the observer with one or the other moving, or at rest; while the other is considered moving, or at rest. These two relative reference frames are the foundation of the Newtonian description of motion of physical objects. She pictures herself and a compatriot traveling down a long level straight section of turnpike, on a windless day. She imagines that if she paces her friend’s auto, adjudging that she is neither gaining ground, nor losing ground, she can safely assume that both autos are traveling at the same velocity; remaining at a constant distance, L, apart as the pair rolls down the highway. With this conclusion in mind, she can regard that the pair of autos have formed a tandem, which is open to the mathematics that was presented before. Amidst the soybean fields along the turnpike, a football field is parallel and aligned with the roadway. So she notices, that when he is at one goal line, she is at the other goal line, thus establishing L, their distance apart (there are many methods for establishing L).. In the reference frame attached to the autos, the vehicles are at rest relative to one another. Another observer is seated on a wooden bench, motionless, at rest, in a roadside rest area. In his reference frame, he sees the tandem traveling down the turnpike at the velocity, v. From his viewing position he factors in the addition of velocities that occurs in the auto reference frame. If a projectile were launched (as from a front or rear mounted machine gun a la James Bond, addition of velocities by transfer of momentum, applies to each bullet) from either auto to the other, then the addition of velocities would be hidden and unobservable by either driver. So if she sends her light signal to the forward auto, then he fires a single bullet back towards her auto. The bullets velocity, as she sees it is, v = d / t with addition of velocities masking transfer of momentum. From within the reference frame attached to the rest area, however, the observer would include this in his calculations, by the Galilean transformation. From his vantage point, he observes that L, is the distance between the tandem autos; and during the same universal Newtonian time, t, that the pair is traveling at the velocity, v. Then her imaginings shifts scenes. For sound, along with no change to their vehicle speeds, the sound pulse acts as a projectile through the still air, but different. It is in the nature of sound waves (and light waves) to violate Galilean invariance; in that the velocity of the source or receiver does not under normal measuring conditions, have an impact on the wave speed. Thus in still air, the equation of motion would include, by algebra, the velocity of her vehicle L = ct + vt. (her vehicle has the velocity, v and the speed of sound is, c and each begins its movement at the ends of L). This formula factors in the aspect that the auto moves forward through the still air, while at the same time, the sound pulse continues to travel at the same speed. The auto meets the sound pulse somewhere within the distance, L. The auto travels forward the distance vt, with v as the velocity of her auto; while at the same time the sound pulse travels rearward, the distance ct, with c as the speed of sound through the windless air. This all takes place during the same universal time, t. This is identical in form to the Galilean transformation as used by the rest area observer. She has made a quantum leap across reference frames; working completely from within the reference frame attached to her vehicle. The air (medium is motionless) resides in the rest area reference frame; it is disconnected from the autos reference frame. However, it is somehow interacting and mixing within the two reference frames; it is interwoven in a mathematical way that is different from the rules of engagement [but forward by the principle of relativity. So, she imagines, if she sends the light signal from her headlights forward to her compatriot’s auto and begins her clock at the same moment, then, disregarding his reaction time, he could fire a single imaginary bullet from his imaginary gun back towards her auto. When the bullet pierces her front radiator she stops her clock. The time she measures for the bullets airtime to arrive at her auto would be the simple Newtonian law of motion, t = L / c. However, for a sound pulse this would not be the case. The time would be t = L / (c + v) after algebraic rearrangement. This is different from the simplest form of the Newtonian equation of motion; it can be solved for the velocity, v, the velocity of her automobile. This is not absolute motion, nor strictly a limited relative motion, but is some kind of intermediary motion. Peeling back and revealing a previously unobservable layer of reality. The bullet slows down or speeds up depending on the guns direction of motion, so as to appear to arrive in the same time as if the auto were at rest. She has found a means to determine her own velocity not just relative to her friend’s auto, which is in motion relative to the roadway, but at rest relative to her; but also she has found her velocity relative to the observer at rest. If suddenly, by some alien magicks they find themselves on a featureless landscape, plunged into an eerie darkness, but at the same distance apart; in the dark the Newtonian or Galilean principle of relativity method, does not visually work. But, by a sonic phenomena combined with the light method I have described here, she could still find the velocity of her auto.

Thanks for your response. I am trying to think through some of the same issues that you are bringing up. The symbol c applies to the speed of light as well as the speed of sound, which was a surprise to me. I think it reflects their nature as constant waves that stay constant no matter if the source is moving or at rest (both of waves violate Galilean invariance, and display the Doppler Effect). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound You are getting ahead of me a little bit; I will probably have something that deals with astronomy in a couple of weeks. If I can get sound waves and light waves to follow the Michelson-Morley formulas then that should show more of a connection between sound wave phenomena and light wave phenomena. It may be just a goal or puzzle to work on; it just keeps unraveling thus far. The Earth hurtles through the Cosmos with a thin layer of atmosphere clinging, fortunately, to the surface of the planet. So all the air molecules (medium) are sharing in the motion of the Earth; their gained momentum masks the Earth’s motion. But if an object like an automobile is in motion, while the surrounding air is at rest, then I am proposing that the Michelson-Morley formula should apply which includes the letter, c, for both light waves and sound waves. So, I am saying that the Earth carrying the air along with its motion is different than an auto, or deck of Galileo’s ship, which I mention in my other blog entries. Most types of Earthbound vehicles in motion do not carry the air along with their motion, they are separated; this, I propose, can mathematically fit the MM formula.

LOL Im just trying to find an opening or weakness in Special Relativity. I think I have found the glitch in Newtonian or Galilean relativity (sound waves and light waves violate invariance). Einstein may be on the horizon. Will listen to any suggestions to jump from sound to light. A friend in Japan made fun of me, pointing out a video for chewing gum "Space Ad" that uses a sound microphone attached to a transmitting dish antenna, which directs sound into outer space. I thought it was pretty funny. The link to youtube is below:

Under the Special Theory of Relativity, the units of time are to be measured in terms of a triangle formed by a reflected light bean. This gives rise to the effect of time dilation appearing between an observer in motion and an observer at relative rest. The phenomenon of time dilation is, however, indiscernible for the observer who shares in the motion. If a sound wave is used to measure the unit of time, the time dilation assumes a cloak of invisibility. The dilation appears only slightly when the sound source is in motion (v << c). So, while measuring a unit of time on a clock, across reference frames, is impossible for a light beam, it is well within the grasp of a sound wave. An observer in motion will totally agree with an observer at relative rest. The formulae of c = L / t or t = L / c, is the simplest form of the Newtonian law, or equation of motion in an inertial reference frame attached to the train, by the principle of relativity. A comparison with the result of my thought experiment yields an unmasking of length contraction. The time of travel of the sound wave down the length of the train car, L, if it were at rest, can be read from the length specifications, and the known speed of sound waves c. The observer on board the train would anticipate the measured time can be solved for by using algebra. But, if the train is in motion (forward), then the time measured will be different from this time: t = L - vt / c, (with t = t), or t = L / (c + v), due to the forward motion of the train car at the velocity, v. And thus the time that the sound wave has taken while traveling, as interpreted by the observer, will be shorter than the time of travel for the sound wave down the train car, if it were at rest. The setup of my thought experiment uses a single clock so that no synchronization is necessary. This has been put forward as a proof for supporting STR. In most examples to illustrate STR, it is put forward that the observer at rest has to use two clocks for two events that occur at different locations in space. However in my hypothesis, there is only one clock, and only one observer within the train reference frame; thus doing an end run around synchronization; it is not a limitation for my hypothesis. I propose that the answer the train car observer measures is identical to that of an observer on the platform, without any sort of communication going on between the two. This shakes the appearance and reality of Relativity. An axiomatic statement that these two observers, one at rest one in motion, will measure two different times and velocities for the same event, is at the heart of Relativity. But my setup has done precisely that. Both the train observer and the platform observer will claim the same, identical formula for the motion of the train car. This is the same formula found by the platform observer by the Galilean transformation. Units of time cannot be measured by light waves across reference frames, to get a single common value; but it can be measured thusly by sound waves, under easily met conditions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

Under the Special Theory of Relativity, the units of length are to be measured in terms of a triangle formed by a vertically reflected light bean. This gives rise to the effect of length contraction appearing between an observer in motion and an observer at relative rest. The phenomenon of length contraction is however indiscernible for the observer who shares in motion. If a sound wave is used to measure the unit of length, the length contraction becomes enshrouded in a mist. The contraction appears only slightly when the sound source is in motion (v << c). So, while measuring a unit of length on a measuring stick across reference frames is impossible for a light beam, it is well within the grasp of a sound wave. An observer in motion will totally agree with an observer at relative rest. The formula c = L / t or L = ct, is the simplest form of the Newtonian law, or equation of motion in an inertial reference frame by the principle of relativity. A comparison with the result of my thought experiment yields an unmasking of length contraction. The length of the train car, L, can be found from the known speed of sound waves c, and the time measured on the clock. So that the observer on board the train would anticipate the length can be solved for by using algebra. But if the train is in motion, then the time measured will be different. It will be: t = L - vat / c, or L - vt = ct or L = ct + vt (with t = t) due to the forward motion of the train car at the velocity, v. And thus the length, through the air that, the sound wave has traveled, as interpreted by the train observer, will be shorter than the length of the train car if it were at rest. The setup of my thought experiment uses a single clock, so that no synchronization is necessary. This has been put forward as a proof for supporting STR. In most examples to illustrate STR it is put forward that the observer at rest has to use two clocks for two events that occur at different locations in space. However, in my hypothesis there is only one clock and only one observer within the train reference frame. Thus doing an end run around synchronization; it is not a limitation for my hypothesis. I propose that the answer the train car observer measures is identical to that of an observer on the platform, without any sort of communication going on between the two. This shakes the appearance and reality of Relativity. An axiomatic statement that these two observers, one at rest, one in motion, will measure two different times and velocities for the same event, is at the heart of Relativity. But my setup has done precisely that. Both the train observer and the platform observer will claim the same, identical formula for the motion of the train car; this is the same formula found by the platform observer by the Galilean transformation. Units of length cannot be measured by light waves, across reference frames, to get a single common value; but it can be measured thusly by sound waves, under easily met conditions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Length_contraction

I know how you feel about the boredom thing, some of my best ideas have come from just such moments! I am trying to get to Radio Astronomy, but you are getting ahead of me. The Doppler Efect may be the crack of the door I need to slip in. The Ha (hahnium) may be a good candidate for this if it is an eletromagnetic radiation that is easy to apply to celestial bodies moving in tandem (geosynchroonus satellite or moon) with a velocity, relative to what??? I would like to read anything you might write up.

Now I switch to a different venue for my thought experiment. It will involve two automobiles traveling down a smooth straight level section of turnpike. Each auto will set their cruise controls at a constant velocity, v, which they have agreed upon beforehand. Each driver has fully operational digital clocks, annoyingly loud horns, and bright halogen lights on board. It is dusk on a clear windless day. As the convoy (a lead auto and a following auto) makes its way down the road, the pair are rolling in tandem with each other; neither accelerating, nor decelerating, relative to one another. They can be regarded as at rest relative to one other. However, the air is at rest relative to both autos as they are moving down the road (the air and road are both at rest relative to the autos). So to check that they are a safe distance, L, apart (stopping distance at this speed) the driver of the following auto conjures up a test. She makes a hands free cell phone call to the driver in the lead car. When he answers she tells him her plan. On a windless day they are rolling down the turnpike in tandem, thus they at rest relative to each other; but at the same time, they are in motion, at the same velocity, relative to the road and air. She proposes to flash her headlights as a signal to her comrade‘s auto. When he sees the light signal, he is to honk his horn. At the same that she flashes her lights, she starts her digital clock. Thusly, the time she measures, since the light signal is effectively instantaneous, will be for the horn sound to return to her: The distance they are apart will not be L = ct, but rather L = ct + vt, where v is the velocity of the tandem relative to the road and still air (c is the velocity of sound). They will begin at the distance L apart, then her auto and the sound pulse will meet somewhere within L by algebra. This reflects the forward motion of her vehicle at the same time as the sound wave is traveling rearwards. This accounts for all the variables and determines the distance they are apart. The pair travels on further, after checking their safe distance. Now, towards the end of their trip, they have reached the familiar environs near the exit for her town. He speeds up to a new constant velocity, u, to make time without risk of losing her. At this new velocity, he gradually pulls away from her. He will travel on to the next town alone. Then, she imagines a continuance for their little thought experiment. As he is gradually separating, she realizes that the source (he) and the receiver (she) are no longer in tandem, now a Doppler effect appears because they are no longer traveling at the same speed. An aspect of Doppler (sound waves through air) is that when the source approaches the receiver, there is a slight mathematical difference than when the receiver approaches the source (introducing a sort of wind in either reference frame). So if she makes the measurement of the change in frequency from her friend’s auto horn while he gradually separates from her, then she will find the source sound wave to have apparently changed frequency. She knows the frequency of the horn from when the autos are at rest relative to each other. In other words she can determine the frequency of the sound of the auto horn while the autos are rolling in tandem (they are at rest relative to each other but moving at the same velocity relative to the air, so ff = f0 ). She can now discern whether she is in motion relative to the air, earth and his auto (which she thinks could be at rest); or whether the air (wind) , earth and his auto are in motion while she is at rest. This can seen by a comparison of the two formulas that fit these two scenarios (the different frequencies can be used to solve for using their different velocities); if the frequency she measures is one value of f then she concludes that she is moving; if the frequency has some other value f, then she concludes she is at rest: ♦ f = [ c / (c + vs)] f0 ♦ f = [(c + vr ) / c] f0 These formulae are clearly different, just by appearance. Therein, the nature of her motion is revealed. Either she is stationary, with the medium in motion; or she is in motion, with the medium being stationary. She has a mathematical means of determining this. She can distinguish, by her thought experiment, whether the autos are in motion with the Earth stationary; or the autos are stationary, with the Earth in motion. This is contrary to the principles of relativity which state that both situations are equivalent, or equally valid descriptions of her motion, thus they are interchangeable in a way. But her thought experiment shows that this is unsound. http://en.wikipedia..../Doppler_effect http://gerrybharris.blogspot.com/

-1632, Galileo proposed his thought experiment, called “Galileo’s Ship“: “…That is why I said you should be below decks; for if this took place above in the open air, which would not follow the course of the ship, more or less noticeable differences would be seen in some of the noted effects…” -This is the point which I wish to drive my shoulder into. Focusing on the air as a medium for the transmission of sound waves, I want to transmutate these noticeable differences into mathematically measurable phenomena. -In Galileo’s Ship once again: “…have the ship proceed with any speed you like, so long as the motion is uniform and not fluctuating this way and that, you discover not the least change in all the effects named, nor could you tell from any of them whether the ship was moving or standing still…” -It is this not being able to tell whether the ship is moving, or at rest, which is the critical point. This is the foundation of Galilean invariance, or his principle of relativity. It is reiterated by Newton, and appears in the axioms of Einstein; no experiment can be done to detect absolute motion. The laws of physics are the same from the point of view from a reference frame, or within the reference frame. -However, it has already been observed by scientists that sound waves violate this invariance, or relativity. Sound waves seem to cross this wall of separation between two reference frames, one at rest and one in relative motion (at a constant velocity). An observer within the ship cabin, shares the motion of the ship, along with the air molecules. This observer is at rest within the ship’s reference frame. The laws of physics take on their simplest form. -An observer on the shore sees the ship observer and air molecules following the translatory motion of the ship as it travels through the water. This shore observer factors this translation into a formula, but realizes that he cannot communicate any of this mathematical information to the ship observer. -If the cabin observer moved to the open air of the main deck, I think she would have a different set of experiences than she had had below decks. If a sailor is set to ring a bell at the aft end of the ship, then the sound waves would travel to the fore end of the ship where the ship observer could be positioned. The fore and aft positions are at rest relative to each other; but are moving in tandem relative to the still air. This is a critical point; so she proposes to perform a thought experiment. -If she were to send a light signal -- a lantern maybe -- to a sailor at the bell, then this sailor would ring the bell (disregarding reaction times). This light signal would effectively be instantaneous over this short distance, D. If she started her chronometer at this exact same moment, then she would measure the time, t1, for the sound wave to return to her. However, because the ship is in translatory motion, with the air at rest (windless day), then the formula she would use is not t = D / c, as below decks; instead, she would use t1 = (D - vt1) / c in the open still air. -This would be identical in form to the shore observer’s mathematics (from the Michelson-Morley experiment to detect the Aether). He would simply factor in the translatory motion of the ship in his calculations. The ship observer can safely assume that, because she knows of the violation of invariance by sound waves, that the time she measures would be associated with the formula that includes the ship’s velocity, v. This unknown can then be solved for. -This counterclaims the principles of relativity. A certain kind of motion is revealed; it is somewhere between absolute and relative motion. This intermediary motion spins silken threads between reference frames. -It seems counterintuitive that the mere addition of four solid walls and the introduction of very slow sound waves can produce more insight into scientific phenomena than super fast light waves. This may be more Philosophy than Physics; what rides on a narrow gauge rail, is our perception of reality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo's_ship

-The first postulate of Einstein in his Special Theory of Relativity (STR) states: “There is no experiment that can be performed in an enclosed laboratory that can detect absolute motion.” -Certainly the idea of absolute motion is out of reach for modern scientists. There is no way to observe an Aristotle’s grid, or Newton’s fixed stars, or the Michelson-Morley Aether; which are at rest in the Universe, and against which all Celestial motions can be defined. -This leaves us only able to work with relative motions; that is, we can only define one object’s spatial motion in terms of another object’s spatial position. -There are a few methods by which relative motion can be ascertained. An observer in a car traveling down the interstate can use a stopwatch to find the time it takes to travel between two consecutive mile posts, then solve for the cars velocity relative to the road by: t = D / v. -Or, a car traveling down the highway, whose owner is sweating the transmission fluid leak she had found that morning. She noticed that every ten seconds a drop fell into the puddle forming beneath her stationary car. So after traveling a while, she pulls into a rest stop to check the leak; has it increased or decreased, she asks herself. Then she notices it is now not in a puddle, but there is some distance between the drops. She does not think the leak has stopped, but that because of her motion at a certain velocity, this has cased the puddle not to form. She imagines she can determine her car’s velocity relative to the road by measuring the distance between the drops: v = D / t -As part of his daily commute, a driver on a city expressway determines that at a constant velocity relative to the road, within a preset amount of time, he can travel a certain number of miles: D = vt. -Each of these scenarios obeys invariance, such that the motion will follow the rule that they take on the most simple form of the equations of motion in that reference frame. However, by using sound waves, which violate Galilean invariance, a new method emerges that also determines relative motion. This method comes from the Michelson-Morley experiment to detect the Aether. I have used sound waves in my previous thought experiment. -This new method does not take on the simplest form of the equations of motion (velocity, time, or position) in each reference frame. It is identical in both relative reference frames, the one regarded at rest and the other regarded in motion. This method can also be used to address the issues of simultaneity and clock synchronization from Einstein’s STR. -In other words, one reference frame takes the simple form of the law, while the other reference frame has a more complicated form; and vice versa, depending on whose reference frame the event is being viewed from. Now in my statement, the formulae are identical in both reference frames: whether both are moving; one is moving and one is at rest; or both are at rest. The following considerations give rise to the transformation equations: ♦ Not t = L / c; but t1 = [(L + vt1) / c] = [L / (c - v)] identical from within each reference frame. Neither formula makes any statement about the car's motion relative to the moon. (t1 = t1 key point for later)

-An Echo measured at the Grand Canyon fits the formula t = [2L] / c. But this is only valid in light of the fact that a thin layer of air molecules (atmosphere / medium) is being dragged by the surface of the Earth (like a dimpled golf ball) as it hurtles through interstellar space. If this layer were at rest relative to the Earth, then this would allow a new definition of relativity to emerge based on a new Echo formula: ♦ T = [(L - vt1) / c] + [(L + vt2) / c ] = [2Lc] / (c²-v²) -This Echo formula is the key element of my hypothesis. It comes from the Michelson-Morley interferometer experiment to detect the Aether. The source of the wave and the reflection from a distant object are at rest relative to each other; but the tandem they form is in motion relative to the medium. This is the underlying idea that I am trying to exploit in this hypothesis.

-I am mainly using two algebra word problem concepts as the mathematical framework for my hypothesis: meeting and overtaking. That is, the aft vertical pole is meeting the sound wave - air at rest, the train is moving forward; or the aft vertical pole is overtaking the sound wave - air at rest, the train is moving in reverse. -In the reference frame of the moving flatbed train car, the aft pole, the observer and her clock are either overtaking or meeting the fore pole of the train car, depending on whether the train is moving towards or away from the sound emitter. But the aft pole and the observer will never reach the fore pole because they are moving in tandem (except in a train wreck!!!). -At the same time, on a windless day, the air molecules (medium) are in another reference frame (along with another observer and the platform), which is at rest relative to the first reference frame. However this other observer, and the station platform, and this other reference frame are not needed for my calculations. The idea that this other observer gets a similar result to the observer within the flatbed reference frame is what leads me to believe that I have found a new state of motion. -The arrangement of the experimental apparatus is that, affixed to the aft pole is a light emitter and a sound sensor. There is also a single clock and a single observer seated at this position. Affixed to the fore pole, is a light sensor and a sound emitter whose purpose is to send a sound wave back towards the original starting position back at the aft pole. -To set up the algebra word problem, I assign letters to the given knowns and unknowns. The speed of sound is to be represented by c; the speed of the train is to be represented by v; the length of the flatbed is to be represented by L; and the time elapsed while the experiment is conducted is to be represented by t. The next step is to find the equation expressing the relationship amongst the constants and variables. -For the equation expressing the meeting aspect of this word problem, I imagine that as the train is moving forward relative to the arrangement of the apparatus, the aft pole will meet the sound wave traveling back toward the pole through the air. This is somewhere within the distance of the starting positions of the aft pole and sound emitter at the instant when the sound is emitted. ♦ ct = L - vt ♦ ct + vt = L ♦ t = L / (c + v) -To continue, for the equation expressing the overtaking aspect of this word problem, I imagine that as the train is going in reverse relative to the arrangement of the apparatus, the sound wave will overtake the aft pole somewhere beyond the distance that they are originally apart. Thusly, at the same time the aft pole is moving away from the sound. ♦ ct = L + vt ♦ ct - vt = L ♦ t = L / (c - v) -Either of these two equations can be solved for v (unknown), the velocity of the train. All the other values (knowns) can be found from the experiment. Taken together, they are identical to the formula from the Michelson-Morley experiment to detect the aether. So, if they are added, the resulting formula can also be solved for v: ♦ T = [L / (c + v)] + [L / (c - v)] = [2Lc] / (c²-v²) -Due to the idea that the poles are at rest relative to each other, but moving in tandem relative to the medium, creates the scenario that I can algebraically exploit to create this alternative form of echo. Since sound waves are different from light waves, both by Einstein and by Galileo, I believe I have found a new interpretation of motion.

This question was answered afirmatively by Jim Pivarski on his website, Ask Mike (Michael Faraday): http://www.coffeeshopphysics.com/letters.php#2013_05_19_21_57_49_100150

-A common thought experiment by Einstein often used to help explain his concept of sim​ultaneity involves a train car and a nearby station platform. If lightning strikes the fore and aft ends of a moving train car at the same time, then a definition of simultaneity emerges. -Having grown up in the American Midwest, thunderstorms are a common occurrence. A story that weathercasters often tell is that when a lightning bolt is observed some distance away, then if the time is counted until the thunder reaches the observer, he or she can tell how far away the lightning strike occurred. So using this principle, I think a new type of simultaneity can be defined. -Instead of focusing on the scorch marks left by the lightning strike on the train car, or left on the platform, I will concentrate on the audible thunder clap that occurs at the same time as the lightning strike. -At the central location of the train car is a single observer, with a single clock, a single sound receiver, a single light sensor. They are all at rest relative to each other within the single reference frame attached to the moving train car. -The light from the lightning reaches the central location (a distance L from either end) effectively instantaneously; and thus by definition simultaneously. The observer starts the clock when the light arrives. The light and sound start at the same time, but the sounds will arrive at the central location some time later, possibly at different times. Then, if it can be determined that the sounds were simultaneous, then this leads to the conclusion that the lightening strikes were simultaneous -If she sees that the thunder sound arrives at different times she can assume that either the train car is at rest and the lightning did not strike simultaneously; or the train car is in motion, and the lightning strikes were simultaneous. -Now the question becomes more philosophy than physics. She has in her mind that it is a windless day, so the air is not moving (nor the platform). So this leaves the only philosophically viable option available to her is that the train is in motion. She then tries to imagine what mathematical means can she use to determine the value of this velocity. Her friend is waiting on the platform (there is a reference frame at rest attached to it) but she will not consult with him. -So she adds together the arrival times from the fore and aft ends, which are L / (c-v) and L / (c+v) in non-relativistic terms for sound (not [L / c] + [L / c], since the speed of sound is much less than the speed of light). This becomes [2Lc] / (c²-v²) which leads to her being able to find the velocity of the train, v. -Once having this value she can make the comparison and correction, and make a call to the engineer to verify the magnitude and direction of this velocity. So she has found the velocity of the train, and also whether the lightning strikes were simultaneous, completely from within the reference frame attached to the moving train car. http://en.wikipedia....of_simultaneity

-Suppose a long train with a caboose travels down a level section of track at a constant velocity, v. There is an observer in the caboose and an engineer in the engine car. It is a windless day. This observer may ask: What is the speed of the train relative to the air, or a nearby platform (both at rest relative to train)? -She has a light source (lantern, maybe) to send a signal to the engine car and engineer. The light signal is effectively instantaneous. He blows the whistle when he receives the signal (disregard reaction time). If she starts the clock when she sends the light signal, then she can measure the time, t, for her to hear the returning sound (speed of sound, c) signal. -During the same time that the train is in forward motion, the whistle sound is in rearward motion. She speculates that she will meet the sound wave somewhere within the distance, D, from the engine to the caboose. By algebra: ♦ ct = D - vt (t = t) -Is she correct that she can find the velocity, v, of the train?

-Suppose a hi-speed train is traveling down a long level section of track at a constant velocity, v. It is a windless day. The engineer at the engine decides to blow the whistle at some particular time. An observer in the caboose, and another observer on the train station platform may feel compelled to ask, what is the speed of the train. Can either or both find the speed of the train based only on the blast (sound) of the train whistle? -The observer on the caboose might construct her algebra problem like this; she knows the distance, D, from the whistle to the caboose from the known train specifications. But since she also knows that the train is moving with the constant velocity v, the train must meet the sound pulse from the whistle somewhere within the distance between the caboose and the whistle (the whistle and the caboose are at rest relative to each other, hopefully). So she sets up her algebraic equation as follows: :Envy: cst = D - vt Where cs, is the speed of sound in air, and both times, t, are equal. Rearranging this equation: D = cst + vt D = t(cs + v) [D /t] = (cs + v) [D/t] - cs = v -So, she imagines if she sends a very fast signal (such as a light signal - virtually instantaneous) to the whistle, starts a clock by her side when she sends the signal, then measures the time until she hears the whistle blast. She should be able to find the velocity of the train, v, from the above equation. -On the other hand, the observer on the platform hears this sound pulse from the whistle at the same time. By starting a clock as he hears the first wave front, and then timing the time difference of the arrival of the second sound wave front, he can find the wavelength of the sound as the train approaches him at that instant: :Envy: λf = cst But by Doppler, the wavelength in front of the moving sound source also equals: :Envy: λf = (cs - v) / ƒ0 He knows the frequency, ƒ0, of the whistle from the train specifications, so by substitution, he can solve for the velocity of the train, v: :Envy: v = cs - [(λf)(ƒ0)] -If the two observers measure the same whistle blast simultaneously, then will they find the same value for v, the velocity of the train? http://en.wikipedia..../Doppler_effect

-In the book by Galileo Galilei, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, he outlines a thought experiment that is to take place on a typical wooden ship of his time. This experiment illustrates a principle of projectiles in motion and describes the hidden nature of forces and motion. It introduces his principle of relativity that has come down to us as Einstein’s postulate of absolute motion from his Special Relativity Theory (STR). -Quotes from the book: "…Shut yourself up with some friend in the main cabin below decks on some large ship, and have with you there some flies, butterflies, and other small flying animals…" "…have the ship proceed with any speed, so long as the motion is uniform and not fluctuating this way and that. You will discover not the least change in all the effects named, nor could you tell from any of them whether the ship was moving or standing still…" "…This is why you should be below decks; for if this took place in the open air, which would not follow the course of the ship, more or less noticeable differences would be seen in some of the effects noted…" -This is the point that I am trying to drive my shoulder into. Galileo indicates that if his ship experiment is conducted above decks, then the air would have a negligible effect on the outcome. I think my thought experiment is trying to turn this minor observable effect into an experimentally measurable phenomenon. -In so doing, I think a new state of motion is defined. It is not absolute motion, it is not relative motion, but is an intermediary state of motion that crosses the line of unobserveable information between reference frames. -This involves the formula from the Michelson-Morley experiment seeking to detect the aether. By taking apart the component parts of this formula, and combining them with the results of data from measurements, a new perspective of the formula can be obtained. This defines a new state of physical motion. The speed of sound, c is so much less than the speed of light, c; I don’t think that there will be any undue influence by Relativistic effects. http://en.wikipedia....ileo's_ship

-So to continue my thought of disentangling reference frames, I think this is an important step in my hypothesis because it allows a mathematical transformation between the flatbed train car and the air / medium. Either the air molecules are in motion while the flatbed is at rest, or the flatbed is in motion with the air molecules at rest (e.g., on a windless day). But I can choose what type of day and conditions under which I want to conduct the thought experiment, beforehand. -In an enclosed train car the observer inside, the air molecules, and the walls are all in the same reference frame. An observer at rest on a nearby station platform is in a different reference frame. What I want to accomplish is a shifting of objects from one reference frame to another, so that I can counterclaim Einstein’s absolute motion postulate. In other words find a way to determine the velocity, v from within the train car’s reference frame. -By switching to a flat bed train car I can make this shifting from one reference frame to another. In addition, adding a single clock to the flatbed train I can measure the time that the observer (train in motion, observer and platform at rest) on the platform measures. Thus, sort of mixing reference frames. -If the conditions of the flat bed train car experiment are either one of those that I mentioned before, then the formula for total travel time, T, of an echo is: :Envy: T = {[L + vt1] / c}+ {[L-vt2] / c} = {L / (c-v)} + {L / (c+v)} -As an example, consider a long train consisting of an engine with a whistle, some train cars, and a caboose. It is a windless day. If the whistle is blown at the engine on the moving train, then an observer on the stationary platform up ahead of the train whistle, will hear the sound waves with an altered wavelength and frequency due to the Doppler Effect. The source is in motion while the receiver is at rest. -However, an observer in the caboose will not experience this alteration due to Doppler because the caboose is at rest relative to the engine/whistle (the compression and rarefaction of the sound waves occurs out of the view of the observer). The engine and caboose are moving in tandem (except if the train is crashing into something) down the track. -By taking just the part of the wave pulse (velocity, c,) going back towards the caboose, on a windless day, with the train car in motion: :Envy: t1 = [L - vt1] / c (t1 = t1 , or t2 = t2 ,is a key point) -This is the phenomenon I wish to exploit. With a single clock, the observer in the caboose would conjecture that the length/distance that he or she is timing is: :Envy: L - vt1, not L -This can be solved for the velocity, v (absolute motion of entire train). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_of_reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_effect

-Galilean Invariance, and its violation by waves, is a critical concept to my hypothesis. I plan to exploit this phenomenon as a means to take Einstein’s Relativity beyond the speed of light. If I am successful in coming up with a new definition of absolute motion and simultaneity, time travel may be on the horizon. -The idea of invariance involves a graphic (coordinates and axes) relationship between reference frames. These axes and coordinates are used as a mathematical means of representing reality. In any reference frame, waves exhibit their constant velocity nature. -However which is more akin to the reality we spend our daily lives in, Einstein’s reality or Galileo’s reality? Both use reference frames and the idea that waves (sound and light) violate invariance; but which is closer to the truth? -One day, as I was exploring the Echo formula, 2L = ct , I finally realized that the Earth drags a thin layer of atmosphere on its surface, like a golf ball, along with it as it hurtles through space. This causes the air / medium through which a sound travels to produce an Echo that may reverberate off a distant wall, and then return. While the earth is moving the air / medium is also moving with the same velocity (as well as any solid object affixed to the Earth). -This scenario makes the formula 2L = ct always work; this is what I mean by invariance. No matter what reference frame you are in the laws of mechanics will yield the same answer even if the two observers are in different reference frames, witness different velocities and distances, but clock the same times for an object in motion. If I can devise an experiment which disengages the motion of the air from the motion of the object, then a different formula arises for an “Echo”. -I pull this new formula for an Echo from the Michelson-Morley experiment and the single arm of the interferometer parallel to the objects motion. It involves the time for a wave traveling in one direction and being reflected back to its original starting point, in essence an echo. -The formula for this transmitted wave and reflected wave (sound or light) is the following when the source and receiver (reflective object) are at rest relative to each other, but in motion, as a tandem, relative to the air / medium: T = [L / (c-v)] + [L / (c+v)] = L {[1 / (c-v)] + [1 / (c+v)]} = [2Lc] / (c²-v²) not t = 2L / c -This new application of the M&M formula can be solved algebraically for the velocity, v, the absolute motion of the object. http://en.wikipedia....lean_invariance

Source: Michelson-Morley experiment, speed of speed, c