Rainer

OH I see quite long telescopes and ehre the weight is not relevant but the moment arm and how much it acts as a sail ... Maybe a Truss Newtonian and not a tube Newtonian ?

Hi Stratis, Is this what you want to load on a CEM 40 ? https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p3041_TS-Optics-PHOTOLINE-115-mm-f-6-96-Triplet-APO-with-2-5--RP-focuser-1-11.html If yes, I do not recommend to go down to a CEM 40. Weight is not everything. Moment arm is more important then total weight ... There is a big difference between a cylinder 40cm long weighing 7 kg or a cylinder 100cm weighing 7 kg. Both have the center of gravity in the middle but the moment arm exert totally diferent forces on the mount if 40cm or 100cm at the same weight ... You can test it your self. Take a 40 cm long stick and move it rotational back and forth and take a 100cm long stick and do the same ... regards Rainer

Hi, How long will that Newtonian be ? Rainer

Yes at 4° per second = 960X the CEM 120 is a bit noisy but at 512X ~ 2.13° you do not hear it anymore ... Of course that is very annoying when slewing once per night to find the object to be photographed 🤣 for 4 o 5 hours and then another slew for parking 😱 ... a bit of fun must be allowed ... Unfortunately the GoT speed can not yet be adjusted and is done always as 960X ... has been suggested to iOptron already ...

... and good for the ASA mount owners like you, who do not have to worry about that, but as you know Mr. Murphy is out there and in the least thought moment he plays you a trick ... There is no product which is 100% fool proof ... You are right but the purpose was to demonstrate that the mounts are robust ... No more no less ... Also as there are many Urban Myths out there complaining about so called Mass Produced Chinese Mounts are rubbish and delicate ... specifically because they are not machined out of a block of Aluminum ... BTW the CEM 120ECXXX are not a mass produced product ... but there is still the thinking of the people that anything made in China is MASS produced ...

Hi, As far as I can judge the CEM 120 Plain Vanilla is as troublefree as any other mount and as written ... where do you get that carrying capacity for that amount of money ... and believe me ... the mount is robust https://vimeo.com/277888636 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsHkzgjPYGA&list=UU-Y3S_VW6ek5nBOkoeiUZ_w&index=9 As you can see nothing breaks and NO, I did not loose the 2 Year Warranty by doing that 😱 or at least iOptron has not told me 🤔 So far I have not seen a video by somebody doing this with a so called " Premium Mount " like Astro Physics, ASA, 10micron, Paramount, you name it ... 😎 Rainer

Hi, Understand and I guess it is all a question of what objects we do image. I asked because I image from a suburban sky and make 900 second exposure time images. I have two CEM 120EC2 and I would say it is the best investment ratio so far. 115 lbs carrying capacity (no counterweights included in that ratio, to added to it) for each US $ 6.998,00. No other mount brand has a carrying capacity including encoders for that price. The Plain Vanilla CEM 120 is US 3.998,00 which is also inbeatable. You will not find a mount with this carry/price ratio. Perhaps the Skywatcher EQ-8 ? OK the mount is out now for about 18 months but I know as having beta tested a lot for iOptron that the mount is ripe to about 95%. Mechanically the mount is very robust (OK, the USA market does not like injection molded parts) perhaps because they are not shiny and you have no bling bling moment 🤣 The base model CEM 120 ist I would say 99% ripe. iOptron Customer support is first class. As you see I am very biased but also very satisfied with my two mounts and they carry a lot. Rainer PD Look where I am 😱

Hi, Why do you limit yourself to this exposure times ? Rainer

Sale ? Those prices are the same since 2 years I am looking at them ? Wait until the CEM 90 comes out ? in plain vanilla, EC or EC2 version all machined out of an Aluminum Block (not that ugly and flimsy ? Aluminum/Magnesium injection molded parts) ?

Hi, Do not put too much hopes in thinking that USB 3.0 will solve all problems. It is the most finicky transfer bus I have ever had ... Rainer

Hi, So far as I remember there is only one mount producer who specifies it very clearly and that is Paramount ... regards Rainer

Hi, I was just trying to explain the implication with the word Payload as this seems to be creating also a lot of discussions ... OH ☺️ and I just saw that iOptron uses the word Payload but in the next field they add, " ... exclude counterweight* " Sorry and now even the mount producers creates confusion ? Rainer " Tohuwabohu " is a German expression meaning " making a big confusion " out of something Uncle Google is out Sensei ? https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the-meaning-of/german-word-9baf180df78e2208828aaa8640d6d167672fe79a.html

Hi, I think we should be careful with the word " Payload " ... as it is used to easily and always creates a big Tohuwabohu https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/payload Our mount is a transport device for our equipment ¿ agree ? and it moves our equipment plus counterweights in a slow way from East to West in the Northern Hemisphere and from West to East in the Southern Hemisphere ( If I understand this correctly) as I ahve never been Down Under ... OK, now coming back to PAYLOAD and Payload is normally the Load a Car, a Truck a Plane a ship can carry as the TOTAL additional weight it can carry ¿ right ? Now iOptron specifies in all their mount carrying capacity and SPEAK from equipment and lways put there " Excludes counterweight " and in that moment the specified carrying capacity is NOT PAYLOAD ... If we assume, again ASSUME and this is a guess the other missing part in Weight of the carrying capacity are the counterweights ¿ agree ? OK, OFF TOPIC the CEM 120XXX is specified with a carrying capacity of 115 lbs ¿ OK ? Now I ahve 119 lbs of Counterweights and if I calculated it correctly I have about 103 lbs of telescope equipment on it and so my Load on the CEM 120EC2 is 222 lbs ... Where is the specified Payload for the CEM 120EC2 ¿ I do not know ? The only thing I know is that both of my CEM 120EC2 have not broken down and are happily slweing at max 4° per second and happily trackin in any rate I put it to track ... The only thing I know if that with 115 lbs of carrying capacity and I having 103 on it I still can add 12 lbs additionally. ¿ Would I do it ? YES with out any doubt and perhaps even more. ¿ why ? because I had for 15 years two Losmandy G11 with a reated carrying capacity of 60 lbs and they were both working with more thern 75 lbs equipment and 70 pounds of counterweights and also were happily slerweing and tracking. ¿ Is it now clear what Payload means ? https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/payload

Hi Andrew, This graphs are made in the factory using a high resolution encoder on the end of the shafts and then they let the mount run for a cycle or more but only print one ccyle and in this case 240 seconds and not as assumed by vlaiv who wrote in doubt " ... if whole graph is indeed 240s. " @vlaiv It is 240 seconds, believe me ? ? Now another thing, why nobody asks how can DEC have an RMS if it is static while pointing on and object, well iOptron does measure that too for PE comparisons of the worms installed in the DEC axis ... WOW, one never stops to wonder day by day ... OK, souls33k3r from my side I will not be mentioning the CEM 120EC2 again as it is distorting the whole idea of your original question. Apologies ... ?

Hi, I am just ROFLMAO many times ... Again a simple graph is now taken to analize something and immediately it is assumed that that is huge problem ? ? @vlaiv MY best advice to you is DO NOT buy an iOptron CEM 120 nor EC nor EC2, You will NOT be happy at all ... Spare yourself in future bad moments ? ... and BTW the answers are drifting in the same way as a bad Polar Alignment

240 seconds = 360 teeth on the worm gear

Correct, everybody can spend their money as they want just one point which makes me a bit nervous about MESU. It is a one man show ... and everything is located in Netherlands ... For the people living in Europe and everything is 8 hours away by car ? it is s good alternative but worldwide ? That is the question ... OK, I am in Mexico and so even with iOptron it is not that near but I have a good vendor in Houston, Texas who is 16 hours away by car ? One more thing, and this is my very personal opinion and nothing more then my very personal opinion, That friction drive inflicts me quite some respect ... ? regards Rainer IMHO ? MESU mount PE image taken from his website The PE of my 2 CEM 120EC2 mounts

Hi Roland, That is a budget problem right ? as usual ... CEM 120EC2 is the way to go ? unless you will never fill the mounts capacity but on the other side one can be never over mounted ...

Hi Hicks, I understand it but main reason for people reluctant to understand the advantage of an encoder is mainly because of the additional price for them and other people who do not have it can not understand the advantage and that is why they say " OH, if you are going to guide anyway, save the money " OK, yes but I think I have written my fingers wound trying to explain the advantage of encoders ... but looks like nobody understands it or do not read it ? ... Again ... see my message posted yesterday at 10:16 Mexican time

Hi, What problem do you mean ? Electrical, Electronic or mechanical problems ... ... or waiting time until delivery ? If it is waiting time, then well that means something and interesting that people having bought a iOptron get upset about waiting time ... Take it as a good sign because that means iOptron is not a mass produced product anymore ? or is it ? ... but there are also people who are very proud for waiting a year or more after buying a certain mount brand ... Do the Bells ring ? ? SARCASM OFF a bit of fun must be ... Have a nice day Rainer

Hi cotak, This has not been denied nor confirmed by iOptron. I did ask and they just keep silent about it ... ¿ from where did you get the information or is it based on an ancient post in Cloudy Nights forum ? ¿ or is it an assumption from your side ? Sorry, but I think it is time to put down facts and not guessing or assumptions or I have heard from somebody ... regards Rainer

Hi Roland, Most people are likely somehow a bit lazy or do not want to disclose what they do. Of course the result can be the same. I only have EC2 mounts but from my former experience I can say. With encoder you mainly correct for drift and atmospheric refraction over a long period and perhaps the one or other sum up of seeing and a bit of rest PE. In reality it is not PE but it is more a summing up of different error and that is what you guide out from time to time but mostly drift and atmospheric refraction. Without encoders you add the PE for guiding out and that is compared to drift and Atmospheric refraction a quick changing error whereas drift and atmospheric refraction are a slow changing error and are constantly moving only in one direction. PE is moving backwards and forwards and even can have additional peaks or valleys overlaid over the sinusoidal curve. There are plenty of images of uncorrected PE curves and corrected PE curves in Cloudy Nights. iOptron delivers with each of their mounts plots of your RA errors be it non EC and EC mounts. Look at the images of the plots of my mounts. Rainer

Hi, As they say 60 lbs carrying capacity and that means 60 lbs carrying capacity excluding counterweight. Counterweights are extra You can put 60 pounds of equipment on top and put 60 lbs of counterweights on the counterweights shaft or even more depending where the center of gravity of your equipment is. My mount CEM 120EC2 is specified with 115 lbs carrying capacity and I have 118 lbs of counterweights on it and no problem. but that does not mean that my equipment is also 119 lbs. My equipment on top is perhaps 105 lbs but due to the high center of gravity and the preferred way I put my counterweights for balance i get that combination. In the image you can see from top to bottom 3x 12kg, 1x 8kg, 1x 6kg and 1x 4kg counterweights (those ugly golden pieces ? ) which adds up to 54 kg ~ 119 lbs Clear ? Rainer

Hi souls33k33r, I would say yes and if you do not like just send it to me in Mexico ... Again, encoders are not there for taking away the guiding in the way way as a car with an automatic lane reading and keeping from time to time needs to be corrected a bit ... I am sending a guide ping every 15 seconds just to correct drift in RA as well as DEC and that is it ... I am guiding through an OAG at 3203 mm focal length and my main interest are the Arp Galaxies ... I am not guiding with PHD2 but with Sky Guide from Innovations Foresight. PHD2 guides on one star. Sky Guide uses the whole frame of the guide camera ... More info below. I tested it for 60 days and that convinced me and yes even having encoders I do guide and if you want tog et into long exposure time like 10 min subs you will need to guide (even having encoders) as drift is going to ruin your images. I do 15 minutes subexposures on the faint fuzzies of Arp ... at an image scale of 0.476" arc seconds per pixel and guess what ... I do get round stars ? www.innovationsforesight.com https://www.innovationsforesight.com/education/full-frame-guiding-focusing/ Rainer I know I am a strange moth between all those butterflies still thinking that encoders do make guiding unnecessary ?

What about all those happy guys with any mount brand ? They just do not post anything ... From 100 messages one is positive and the rest is complaining and whining ...