RobertI

1 hour ago, Pixies said:

And dob-nudge!

I'd been making lots of quick sketches and notes during observing. As I said, different EPs were showing different features better than others. The image above was done when I got back inside, while my memory was still fresh. The following was what I came inside with (colour added later)

Useful insight into your process, thanks!  

Excellent sketch. 👍

7 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

Fits perfectly snug inside one of these. Firm foam. 

Looks like a good fit, where did you get the case? 

For everyone's interest I tried several suppliers and the only one who answered the phone was Rupert at Astrograph. An extremely helpful chap who told me a lot about the Tecnosky scope, and confirmed it was the same as the TS and AA scopes. I really wanted to give him my business but I just felt the Altair Astro scope was the safer bet. But I will look to purchase from him in future. 

The lens is from Kunming United Optics. It is FPL-53 (he indicated it is likely to be better quality glass than the SW) with a Lanthanum mating element. What I didn’t realise is that Lanthanum is a coating which increases the refractive index rather than a glass type  ...at least that what he said! Perhaps someone more knowledgable can explain. 

Thanks all for your positive  comments folks. I think I’ll have a lot of fun using the scope and get a lot of pleasure from owning it. If it’s anywhere near as good as the Vixen ED102SS I’ll be a happy bunny. 👍 

In anticipation of its arrival I have bought a used 2” Astronomik UHC filter to go with the 38mm Panaview. Hoping this will be nice for larger nebs. 

I think I need to stop spending now! 😬

...although I do need a padded bag.....

Well I’ve been told around 5 days (by Harrison Telescopes who I ordered from) - they place the order with AA who I know AA are on hols and will have a backlog when they return so I am  not expecting it to be quick. I am also fully expecting somewhere along the line to be told that it’s not in stock after all! I’m not expecting a smooth ride but will be pleasantly surprised if it is. 

After much consideration, I have been brave and pulled the trigger .......

https://www.altairastro.com/starwave-102ed-r-fpl53-refractor-459-p.asp

We’ll see what happens next! 

32 minutes ago, faulksy said:

absolutely love the veil, love seeing the maroon colour. try the cresent nebula next looks like a brain

Been struggling with the Crescent, I've seen it, but it's been very faint and underwhelming - I probably need to try a dark sky and a different scope.

1 hour ago, SiriusB said:

You'll buy a 4" ED because that's what's in your head at present.

You're not wrong there!

30 minutes ago, johninderby said:

There are achros and there are achros. 🙂

Big Red my 100mm f/13 Carton achro has Japanese optics from the days when they knew how to make great achro optics and a great planetary scope. Wouldn’t swap it for a Tak FC100. 🙂 Come to think of it to buy one new it would be about the same price as the Tak. 😁

But being realistic a 4” doublet ED will give you a good planetary performer within your budget and won’t need an expensive mount.

Big red is an amazing looking scope - beautiful and sleek but bred for a single terrible purpose - to kill Planets!

Interestingly the TS version make a big deal about the 'Lanthan' (assume Lanthanum) mating element. None of the others (Altair or Tecnosky) even mention it. I have included this question in my emails to Altair/Harrison/Astrograph to double check. I fear the responses will be "we don't know".

Although the review by @Paz was glowing, it did ram home the limitations of the aperture. I musn't expect too much from this class of scope! I think I am the kind of astronomer who will make the best of any scope I have and use it on objects for which it is best suited, and push the limits for fun, so I know I will use it and enjoy it. It's just that £900 is a lot of cash, nearly ten times what I paid for my (admittedly used) 150PL! However, none of my scopes are perfect and they all have their foibles, either the design or the build quality, some more irritating than others. The one exception is probably my zenithstar 66mm - a beautifully engineered tiny ED frac! So I am still hopeful that a 100mm ED frac will both fill a gap in my collection and meet my desire for a foible free, high quality frac with that super-contrast and 'perfect' stars! My impossible quest continues.....

4 hours ago, Paz said:

I have an Altair ed102r. It's become my most used scope since I got it about 9 months ago.

It gets used most because it's very practical and versatile and the ratio of the quality of the view compared to the amount of effort required to set up is good.

However I don't have experience of any other 4" apos to compare it to. 

Thanks for that. I have actually just read your review of the scope from when you bought it and it made interesting reading.

10 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

It looks like Altair Astro actually has it in stock!

Thanks for heads up - I couldn't actually see any stock indicator but I have fired out an email to them and Harrison who also appear to have it in stock. Unfortunately Altair are on holiday this week!

2 minutes ago, Robindonne said:

The op thought it made his decision more easy to ask for help here😅

Too true! But I am getting plenty of envouragement.

31 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Just checked the APM website and they are giving 4 to 8 weeks for the TS 102.

I suspected as much. Might just have to sit this one out! 

9 hours ago, Stu said:

I would agree with going with the TS or Altair versions as I think these brands are better known so would resell better. 

Thanks Stu, agreed. Trouble is looks like there is a long lead time on the TS and I suspect the same for the Altair - sign of the times! I'll contact both anyway.

9 hours ago, mikeDnight said:

I like the SW100ED and have owned one, but the TS being physically shorter would be my choice, as it will still do everything the longer SW will do and give a wider field. Could be a perfect grab and go scope!

Thanks Mike, yes it really seems to fit in better with my current scope collection, giving me super wide views and rich fields. I guess the ZS66 can also do this, but the 100mm F7 could do it so much better and much more besides.

9 hours ago, Dantooine said:

You shouldn’t be thinking of re-sale to be honest. Those are all fine telescopes and keepers!

The re-sale apsect is certainly making my decision more complicated! I suspect I'll have to go with whatever is available (if anything is available!)

7 hours ago, Cjg said:

Just throwing you a different option. There was a used version of one of these on Astrobuysell UK last week. https://www.altairastro.com/starwave-152-v3-red-tube-achromat-refractor-telescope-461-p.asp It’s a very good achromatic, plenty of aperture?

Thanks for the thought, looks like nice scope, but I already have a Tal100RS achro and I specifically wanted an ED of similar size, so not really for me. Appreciate the input though.

6 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Tough to make a decision when all three are good choices, different but you’d be happy with any of them. 

Well at least I can give myself a pat on the back for having a good shortlist! 

1 minute ago, johninderby said:

I resemble that remark!

15 minutes ago, Lockie said:

With my head I'd go for option 2 mate   Probably the Altair or TS version of the fpl53 102 f7. If had to live with one scope, this probably would be it! (weighing up every single factor I can think of). 

With my heart I'd choose the Stella Mira 80mm f10. I have moments where I really want this scope - I know it would be practically optically perfect and the views would be very aesthetically pleasing and the user experience would be nice looking at the fit and finish. 

It's a tricky one Rob!  

Thanks Chris, good to hear, I think I remember you singing the praises of the F7 100mm ED, which has influenced me somewhat! The ease/value of resale of the TS/Altair/Tecnosky does bother me, but I don't have much of a history of selling my stuff so would probably keep it. However it would also be the most expensive single piece of astro equipment I have ever bought, so I would want it to feel special.

The Astrograph website says "As with all telescopes supplied by Astrograph, the <insert scope name> is supplied only after careful inspection and being fully aligned and star tested." If this is true, it provides some reassurance. I've not dealt with Astrograph so cannot varify their credentials. I guess TS are a large supplier who should take the scope back if there was a problem.

5 minutes ago, John said:

Personally I would stick to 100mm as a minimium aperture. I've owned some good quality ED doublets of, 70mm, 80mm and 90mm but, for me it's 100mm and above which deliver views that are engaging enough to be more than just "nice".

Thanks John, yes that was my concern. My Tal 100RS hasn't made me an instant convert to 4" fracs , and there is a risk that a smaller aperture ED won't do it either, but a 100mm ED just might.....

11 minutes ago, John said:

F/7 is a versatile focal ratio for an ED doublet. Slow enough to cause CA to be mostly invisible if an FPL-53 element is used but fast enough to get whopping true fields with long FL 2 inch eyepieces.

Yes that was my thinking, given the other scopes in my collection, none of which can take 2" eyepieces (apart from the Tal), an 100mm F7 ED frac would offer me much wider fields than I can currently achieve. It just 'feels' right.

2 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

 

I use one of these and love it

 

I think that is effectively my option 2 (same lens I think) - thanks, reassuring to know you’re happy with it. 

5 minutes ago, dweller25 said:

Having directly compared a 100ED to a 4” Tak triplet I can say that the Skywatcher 100ED is at least 90% of the performance for 25% of the price.

BUT your 150PL will probably match the planetary views of the ED and the C8 will probably beat it.

if you really want great views buy a 10” Dob 👍

Good points, and thanks for sharing your experiences. I suspect that ultimately I will end up with a premium frac and a  10” - 12” Dob as my main scopes, but I think that’s a few years away. Good to know about your positive experience of SW ED100. 

1 minute ago, johninderby said:

If I ever did replace the StellaMira it would be with a Tak FC100DZ.😁

Wouldn’t we all? 😂😂
 

But I take your point. 

2 minutes ago, johninderby said:

All I can say it’s a scope that has that “Wow” factor when you look through it. 🙂

I am very drawn to the prospect of something unique and unusual. And I guess when buying from FLO I know I can return it in the unlikely event I find it disappointing. I suspect if I did like it, it would be a keeper.  One thing I do wonder though, is how much of that cost is because Long Perng don’t sell many of them, rather than because the optics are premium quality? I guess I can only find out by looking through one!!

5 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Hard to go wrong with any of them. 👍🏻

Thanks John, I know you’ve had a great experience with the StellaMira so far, and that counts for a lot. I think the optics are really top notch. I guess I was worried that 80mm would not be much different to the 72mm F6 ED that I just sold, but in reality I guess the StellaMira is a completely different animal. 

5 minutes ago, jetstream said:

All I'm gonna relate is the money I spent on these 2 scopes plus the focuser could have bought the TSA120 right off the bat or pretty close.

Experimenting is fun, but costly IME

Some great points there Gerry, I really ought to go straight to the Tak! Owners seem to get the same performance from the FC-100 as you would get from much bigger apo’s from other less premium brands. But given this is an experiment, perhaps I should go for the cheap option! 

5 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Tak

LOL, yes I should have included my budget, £900 max! 😁 If this ‘experiment’ is a success though, my ultimate goal is a FC-100 of some sort. 

A couple of months ago I ordered a new toy - a Skywatcher ED100. My reason for choosing that scope at the time was that I have seen how people rave about their 4" apo's for visual and I have never owned or used one - I really want to find out for myself. Also I had never been totally happy with the 'yellow' colour cast in my Tal100R and want to see what a decent ED can do. I was planning to use for mainly planetary, lunar, doubles and clusters. I am not really expecting it to better the 150PL for planets, lunar and doubles, but I am expecting a better 'aesthetic' experience, and interested to see how important that is to me.

Unfortunately I am still waiting (due to long lead times) and have started to look at other options, and my new shortlist is below:

1. Skywatcher ED100 (£757, £555 for essential version) - Pros: Amazing value, proven performer, very low chance of a dud, light, good resale.   Cons: Questionable focuser, long scope with no sliding dewshield, low quality materials
2. TecnoSky 102 F7 FPL53  (£900) - Pros: Shorter with sliding dewshield, good focuser, better materials (more premium feel?), F7 gives wider fields, in stock I think.  Cons: Unknown quantity, probably harder to sell. 
3. StellaMira 80ED F10 (£900) - Pros: Superb build quality and focuser, top quality optics, zero chance of a dud (checked by ES Reid), looks gorgeous, something different, probably easy to sell, its in stock! Cons: 80mm might prove limiting, less good for wide fields, possibly expensive for what it is. 

I believe option 2 is also available branded by Teleskop Service and Altair Astro, so would expect the quality of optics to be good.

I am currently really keen on option 2, as F7 seems much more versatile (and portable) length and with my 38mm Panaview eyepiece, gives a 3.8 degree field and 5.5mm exit pupil, making it a really nice 'richest field' scope and also capable of fitting in the entire veil complex and other large objects. But also still capable for high power planets and doubles.

So head says option 2, heart says option 3 and wallet says option 1!!

Whatever I get I am hoping to use it at the dark skies of Kelling Heath in October.

What do people think? Are there any considerations I've missed? Are there other 4" apo options?

Rob