John

The best low cost (well, lowish) barlow that I've come across is the Baader Q-Turret 2.25x. Simple build but good glass

I think eyepieces are well down the list of things that could be restricting the quality of your planetary views to be honest with you. Your Baader Classic Ortho 10mm will probanbly be delivering as good a view of Jupiter and Saturn as the scope and conditions will allow.

Have a look at this article from an experienced observer and especially the section called "The Wobbly Stack":

http://www.scopeviews.co.uk/Eyepieces for Planets.htm

Note how far down the list of factors the eyepiece is.

I got it nicely this evening with my ED120 refractor. Pi Aqullae as well.

I had the Explore Scientific 24mm 68 degree before I moved to my 24mm Panoptic. The ES was pretty good I thought - the extra £'s for the Panoptic didn't buy much apart from a more compact eyepiece and perhaps slightly sharper edge performance in my F/5.3 dob.

The Vixen LVW 22mm was another very nice 1.25" format eyepiece that I used to own. Out of production now though so you will need to look to the used market for one of those.

I don't think the Hyperions will be that great at the edges at F/5.5 and F/5.8 and less so if you eventually get anything faster.

So much cloud to dodge this evening - difficult to get more than a few seconds on Jupiter so I don't think I'll be able to confirm your oval sighting Stu. Is it better for you tonight ?

You could buy a Skywatcher Heritage 100P for just under £100 and use the mirrors from that. They use parabolic 100mm F/4 primaries.

If I get a chance I'll have a look at Jupiter this evening Stu and let you know what I can see along the SEB

That scope was operated by the "Stars over Somerset" group. Here is their website:

http://www.starsoversomerset.com/

I'm not sure that it is currently still in use though.

Bristol Astro Society have 12 inch and 18 inch scopes at their observatory S of Bristol. The 12 is newly installed and is linked to some impressive technology.

The use of laser pointers in the UK is controlled. This is the police policy on it:

https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q757.htm

In Hong Kong there have been recent reports of laser pointers being used to disable face recognition technology employed by the police and also being shone in police officers eyes so that is why there is additional sensitivity regarding their recent purchase I would suggest.

I don't think this is anything to do with the suppression of astronomy.

Interesting comparing the above simulation with my sketch of this pair with my ED120 frac from a couple of years back:

If thats a Meade Giant Field tripod I can see I know how heavy those things are - I had one for my 6 inc F/12 Istar refractor and I could only just about move the tripod, on it's own, out to my patio. Add an EQ6 to that plus 15kg of counterweights plus the 16kg scope and I'm surprised that the patio slabs didn't break !

15 minutes ago, paulastro said:

Thanks John.  Mm, I was hoping that you'd say it would be a dead loss on the Ercole so I'm not tempted at some point in the distant future - not really! 

Some folks might think that it is not satisfactory. As I'm always keen to maintain portability and simplicity of setup / tear down I'm usually OK about accepting some movement at high power as long as it dampens down in a reasonable time. I can see that it might not be acceptable to all though.

I currently use a William Optics long Vixen type dovetail bar with my largest refractor, the TMB/LZOS 130mm F/9.25 triplet. This is the DT bar:

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/william-optics-long-dovetail-plate-vixen-style.html

The dovetail clamp that I use is the ADM double knob version:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adm-replacement-saddles/adm-vixen-style-saddle.html

The mount concerned is the Skytee II alt-azimuth and my mounting setup is pictured below.

The above componants do a decent job of holding what is a long and heavy optical tube for visual observations but, as ever, I'm interested in improvements, if possible, without resorting to a heavier duty mount.

Since I have had this scope I have wondered if it is worth moving to a Losmandy type dovetail bar and clamp for use with the same mount. I'm curious as to whether this would give me a bit more stability at high magnifications.

As far as I can see the William Optics DT bar is about as robust a Vixen style one as you can get and the ADM clamp is of good, tried and tested quality.

Before I take the plunge and order a Losmandy style clamp and DT bar for the scope, I'd be interested to hear from anyone else who has made a similar change as to whether it results in a more stable setup. I guess I'm wondering if the mount itself is actually the slightly weaker link rather than the dovetail arrangements that I currently use

Also, if I do decide to move to the larger format bar and clamp, would a longer or shorter DT bar be worth considering for the tube length involved?. My current William Optics Vixen type DT bar is a 290mm one. With Vixen / Skywatcher format bars I have found that long DT bars can actuallt be less stable than shorter ones because they seem to flex a touch more. Are Losmandy format bars the same or do they maintain their inflexibility with length ?

I'm trying to understand what it is about the Losmandy system that imparts greater control over vibrations etc and whether those benefits will accrue when it's used with the Skytee II mount.

Thanks in advance for any views / observations offered on this topic

29 minutes ago, Stu said:

.... Now I know what I'm looking for, it may be that it is easier in other scopes......

That is so often the case with many challenging astro targets isn't it ?

Great report Stu and congratulations on that tricky little blighter - zeta hercules !

It does need good, steady seeing conditions and being high in the sky helps as well.

I have got it with my FC-100DL, ED120 and TMB/LZOS 130 fracs but it's very challenging in all of them, especially with the FC-100DL when it's intermittant at best.

I would go for a Focal Extender / Tele Extender / Powermate if you can.

These devices deliver the image amplification but don't change the focus position and eye relief and don't vignette eyepieces with large field stops. With the Powermates in particular, apart from the increased magnification, you simply can't tell that they are in the optical train.

Such devices do tend to cost more than a barlow lens though.

48 minutes ago, paulastro said:

It would probably be ok on my Ercole mount as I'm purely a visual observer apart from taking a snap or two of the Moon.  

It would be OK if carefully balanced on both axis. You would need some patience when observing at high powers. It won't be vibration free by any means, but useable.

The conclusion that I've come to is that the ideal mounts, for me, for these big refractors are:

- The APM Maxload Alt-az on a Berlebach Planet tripod

- The TTS Panther mount

- The T-Rex mount

The last is sadly out of production and as rare as hens teeth on the used market. The others can still be obtained although they are not inexpensive - at least as much as the Skywatcher ED150 costs and upwards.

Thats a very interesting sighting Stu.

No observing possible here due to clouded out S/SE aspect but I hope "Stus Spot" hangs around for a few days

For Jupiter, something in the 7mm - 8mm range is a good choice. Jupiter does not generally benefit or reward high magnifications in the same way that Saturn does. The low altitude of these planets currently adds to these challenges.

For Saturn I would be looking at something around 5mm - 6mm in focal length with your scope. These higher powers would also be useful for observing the Moon and Mars and also double stars.

One of the interesting things about the question being asked here is that it gets you to think about a single scope that will do a wide range of things pretty well. Because many of us now own a number of scopes, each with it's own strengths and weaknesses, selecting one from your current collection may well not tick enough boxes to be a sole instrument because it was never chosen for that role in the first place, but for something more specific.

Thats why, when I replied, I went for a scope that is not one of the ones that I currently own but something that stands a decent chance of ticking as many amateur observing boxes as possible. The sort of scope that I owned when I did have to pursue the hobby with a single instrument in fact

11 minutes ago, bingevader said:

You'll have to enlighten us on that one, please?

Are you related to Paddington?

It's a bit like the technique used to view those 3D magic eye pictures - you focus your eye "beyond" the target, so to speak. It's difficult to describe to be honest but I have found that it helps tease out faint point source targets.

Great report and super result Chris

I have seen Enceladus a few times with my 12 inch dob but not this season, as yet.

I find that a sort of "1000 yard stare" technique coupled with high magnifications works quite well in helping these faint planetary moons to pop into view. Steady seeing and the targets position in relation to its host planet play an important role as well.

Tiny specks of light but they mean quite a lot when you know a little about what you are observing !

I have an APM/TMB/LZOS 130mm F/9.25 triplet refractor and I'm very impressed by it's performance and build quality.

Edit: for clarity, Thomas Back of TMB designed the objective lens, LZOS in Russia made the glass and the lens and APM assembled the scope.

The most challenging scope that I put on my Skytee II is a TMB/LZOS triplet 130mm F/9.2 refractor. It weighs 9.5kg with finder, tube rings and diagonal. The Skytee II copes reasonably well with this scope, not perfectly, but it is a useable combination.