John

I've seen people actually selling empty eyepiece boxes for the premium brands such as Takahashi etc

I have a few eyepieces that don't have the original box but they are in great condition which is all that really matters

Some of the Explore Scientific and Meade eyepiece boxes are huge - they do create a storage issue themselves

1 hour ago, Ozone said:

Can a chesire or collimation cap be used on a mak?

A simple star test will show you if the collimation is good or not. With the mak-cassegains I think the star test is also a good method to use while adjusting the collimation as well.

The longer one looks like what I'd expect to see on the F/9.8 Evostar 102. Similar to the one that my old Vixen SP102M had. The shorter one is what I thought the F/5 Startravel 102 would come equipped with. Maybe your old one started life on a Startravel 102 ?

Ah, yes, I wondered if that was the issue. You can have $'s as well if you like.

Hmmmmm what David ?

To add to the challenge, the experienced observer who spends time at the eyepiece studying a planet will see quite a bit more planetary detail than the novice who has a relatively quick look.

If I posted sketches (which are much more a guide than images) that looked like a novice taking a quick look might see then I feel that you would not be impressed (the 14 inch SCT would not really change this either) but when you see sketches of what an experienced observer, spending long periods at the eyepiece with smaller apertures can see, they are really quite impressive.

You see, there are no guaranteed outcomes with visual observations.

Well done on sticking with it and finding M27

If you can get hold of one, a UHC filter helps increase the contrast of nebulae such as the Dumbell even if your sky has some LP issues.

That is pretty expensive. Here is one currently for sale for considerably less:

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=152609

PS: I've nothing to do with the advert.

18 hours ago, knobby said:

Said firmly tongue in cheek, but the way we're treating the planet ... It might not be 😂

Oh the Universe and the planet will still be here. It might not be such a suitable habitat for us though.

A good quality zoom eyepiece such as the Baader 8-24mm can work very well with these SCT scopes. In your 9.25 inch the zoom would give you from 97x to 294x all in one eyepiece. Add a longer focal length eyepiece, such as your 40mm, for lower power observing and you have a really useful range of magnification in just 2 eyepieces. All you need for most observing circumstances.

Hope you had some good views Alex

It's OK to give it a miss sometimes you know ?. Thats something that I learned a while back when I got to the point when I was almost disappointed to see a clear sky.

It's a hobby - if you feel like doing it, great, but if not, do something else instead. You are in charge, not the hobby !

If you are feeling like that sometimes the forum can seem a little daunting with folks all apparently rushing outside each and every clear night. But it's fine not to actually observe sometimes, good for your overall enjoyment of the hobby in fact, IMHO.

The Universe will still be there for you when you do feel like having a peek at it, thats for sure

3 hours ago, Mr niall said:

I'll bet, but this is only 60mm. I'll admit to being very impressed 😀

I've just noticed that - sorry I got that wrong but even more impressive !

Nice report. Amazing what 70mm can pick up when used with a bit of skill and thought

17 minutes ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

Enjoyable read John and a very useful chart. I was also out last night with the 12" Dob mainly to observe DSOs in Draco. However, I did have a session on the Veil as well using my 20mm Myraid and O-III Castell. Had a fair bit of moisture in the air last night so transparency could have been better but it was an enjoyable session.

Glad you got some observing in too Mark.

I found the transparency reasonably good here until about 1:00 am when a bank of fog rolled up the River Severn and suddenly all I could see were the brightest stars then a few minutes later, nothing. 

@jock1958: perhaps you were getting some of the foggy stuff a bit earlier than I did ?

Your secret is safe with me Mark

I find it quite a thrill to spot Triton - it's the most distant rocky / icy world that I've seen as far as I know.

A decent night tonight without a moon. Naked eye limit around mag 5 towards the zenith. Milky way visible faintly through Cygnus and the Andromeda Galaxy just about naked eye visible with a little averted vision. Not the best I get here but not too shabby either.

I've been giving my favourite deep sky object, the Veil Nebula, some scrutiny tonight with the help of my 12 inch dobsonian and trusty Lumicon O-III filter. The 21mm Ethos and 31mm Nagler eyepieces show big enough chunks of sky to take in large segments of this complex network of related nebulosity, but not the whole thing of course. To get much out of the Veil Nebula a narrowband (ie: UHC) or even better a line (ie: O-III) filter is required it has to be said.

The main segments of the Eastern and Western Veil and Pickerings Triangular Wisp are bright, extensive and well defined tonight. As my eye becomes more fully dark adapted fainter elements have become visible giving 5 NGC objects in total and a few other bits and pieces too. On an even darker and more transparent night I think I could go deeper still but pulling out what I have of this marvellous object has been very satisfying

I've marked this chart of the Veil Nebula with my definite sightings so far. Yellow ovals are the easy portions, green ovals are objects that took a little more time to tease out. I have also had fleeting glimpses of other ill-defined patches as well but I've just recorded the stuff I'm sure of currently.

My view through the newtonian is inverted with east and west reversed of course. The chart is the normal orientation view that our eyes see. To give an idea of the scale, the chart covers an area about 3.5 degrees by 3.5 degrees. With the 31mm Nagler I can get in the whole of the NCG 6992 / 6995 / IC 1340 segment in the field of view. With the 21mm Ethos it's a touch less.

This really is such a complex and rich object - you can easily spend a whole session exploring it (I've spent over 2 hours on it myself this evening). Here are some links to articles which help delve deeper into the Veil Nebula:

https://www.skyandtelescope.com/astronomy-blogs/explore-night-bob-king/explore-veil-nebula/

https://www.skyandtelescope.com/observing/beyond-the-familiar-veil/

https://www.astronomy-mall.com/Adventures.In.Deep.Space/Dissecting the Veil Nebula.html

I'm all setup with the 12 inch dob. I've bagged a few doubles, Saturn and good old M57 and M27 while the sky darkens.

Hoping to have a good long session on the Veil Nebula when the sky is fully dark.

M27 (Dumbell Nebula) in Vulpecula looks good in smaller apertures and is a bit lower down than M57 currently.

Later on in the night, M5 (globular cluster) in Pegasus is a nice target.

20 minutes ago, Ben the Ignorant said:

Cheap filters have only a few percent less transmission than expensive ones, they will work well. But focused attention and observing experience have to complete the job, as well as averted vision. Some use a black observing hood (like 19th century photographers), an eye patch or other tricks to better their night vision. Try them and see what works for you.

Also, try seeing the fainter things first on an observing night and the bright easy ones last, so it won't end on a disappointment if you don't succeed at first.

The tips and techniques you mention are well worth trying out

On filters, having owned a few lower cost filters I agree that the % peak transmissions make little difference but the lower cost ones also tend to have over-broad transmission (ie: admit too wide a range of wavelengths) and also lack the sharp transmission cut offs that the better quality filters have and those things do reduce their effectiveness from what I've experienced personally.

The lower cost filters do make some difference though and sometimes that is the difference between seeing something and seeing nothing or very little.

Ending a session with something easiy and rewarding is an excellent plan too

40 years in the hobby and thats the 1st time that I've heard of the term etendue

Back to school for me ........

I'm not keen to get an F/4 or faster dob but my 21mm Ethos sure does work well on faint DSO's even with my LET (lowish ettendue telescope) F/5.3 12 inch.

I guess if I was looking for an 18, 20 or larger dob though, it would have to be F/4 to avoid needing a ladder !

Thanks for the link Gerry - I'm sure it will generate much interest and discussion

1 hour ago, Raph-in-the-sky said:

I have an OIII and UHC FIlter but didn't manage to see it. What would be the most light polluted sky under which I could still see it, on a clear night with my 10' Dob. I reckon I observe under Bortle 5 (although I can go to a Bortle 4 site)

According to the "Clear Outside" site my sky is Bortle 5. I can see down to mag 5.5 stars around the zenith and a good chunk of the Milky Way plus the Andromeda Galaxy with the naked eye on a good night.

I've spotted the Eastern Veil segment with an aperture as small as 70mm using a UHC filter. Both segments and the triangular wisp between them are visible with 102mm and the O-III filter. With the 12 dob, the 21mm Ethos eyepiece and the O-III filter (a Lumicon) the Eastern Veil looks like this on a decent night

Tis the season of the Veil Nebula

Grab a UHC or O-III filter and your very lowest power eyepiece and find the star 52 Cygni to pick up the Western Veil Nebula running like a pale river right beside it. The more obvious Eastern Veil Nebula is 3 degrees to the East. 

One of THE very best summer deep sky objects IMHO

3 hours ago, jock1958 said:

Good luck and fingers crossed for tonight. I had high hopes last night after a beautiful day but it clouded over as soon as it got dark! 

Thanks - Last night was no go here too. I didn't even set a scope up.

The 56mm plossl will show you as much sky as a 2 inch eyepiece can (as does my 40mm / 68 degree) but the background sky might be a bit washed out because of the lower magnification. Worth trying though to get a feel of the max field that a scope can show.

My favourite "big field" combo is my Vixen 102 F/6.5 and my Nagler 31mm. 3.8 degree true field but a little more magnification to darken the background sky a bit more.

I have a totally clear forecast for tonight and no moon until the early hours so I think I'll get the Vixen 102 and the 12 inch dob setup side by side and compare the views of the Veil with those