Absolute noob - ebay 6" reflector for £100. Should I?

[Penguin]

Been looking at Jupiter over the last few nights with a crappy toy scope (£10 plastic from Boots) and I can see the disc and certainly one and possibly four moons.

I am interested in getting a half-decent telescope. I have read the 'Essential reading' post and realise this is going against all its good advice but I don't expect to be getting into this as a serious hobby. I'd like to see the banding on Jupiter, Saturn's rings, classic things like that. I am a bit of a scrooge and don't want to spend more than a ton.

I saw this on ebay:

6" Telescope (6 inch, 152mm)-astronomical NEW on eBay (end time 31-Aug-10 16:40:49 BST)

"This auction is for the smaller Zenith R&D telescope: the Zenith 6" Newtonian reflector. This is a high quality unit with many extras over and above the basic models. Available at the same price that most retailers sell toy telescopes."

I have seen a thread talking about the Zenith 8" scope which seemed to say that it is very likely rubbish. I am assuming the same applies to this but on the other hand it's only 90 quid and I can go an pick it up as I am close to Monmouth. The tripod and mount alone look quite decent to my uneducated eyes.

Would I be better off looking for a 3" reflector, or even a refractor, given that I don't want to go into 3 figures.

Sorry to be asking the same old questions that every newbie asks again!

--- Penguin

[slartylite]

why not go for a tal 1 these go for v little are good optically and bombproof.

[haitch]

I think you can do better than that for under £100.

The fact it has aa 1400mm focal length means that it should be somewhere around 9 times as long as it is wide. It isn't - this is because it uses a, usually poor quality, lens in the focuser tube to elongate the focal length and try to make up for the mirror being spherical instead of parabolic.

The mount whilst it looks all techie is not sturdy enough to hold the scope steady enough to use properly (remember you are looking at a very small piece of sky and the slightest movement will make the view bounce all over the place).

My father-in-law had the same scope but branded Seben so I have tried one and know what they are like first hand.

In my non-expert opinion, your best option in your price range is to look for a 2nd hand dobsonian. You avoid spending money on a complex mount so all your money goes into the optics. Look out for Skywatcher, Celestron and Orion (the US or UK versions).

Stay off Ebay (rarely see anything decent go at a good price) and look at U.K. Astronomy Buy & Sell or when you have been posting on here for a while the classifieds forum will magically appear (if they haven't taken the minimum posts block off)

[slartylite]

try e-bay 320581353365 nice tal 1 no bids at £20, managed to get a tal2 m for £100 a great bit of kit.

[haitch]

try e-bay 320581353365 nice tal 1 no bids at £20, managed to get a tal2 m for £100 a great bit of kit.

Maybe wrong about the Ebay stuff then but never really looked for Tals. There's a Tal 1 at our club and it's really nice and sturdy but there always seems to be issues trying to use non Tal EPs with it.

Another thing with Tals is they are damn heavy so make sure you are able to carry it from where you store it where you observe easily enough.

Not sure if the classifieds will be open to you but scouting round I just saw this...http://stargazerslounge.com/sale/111363-sale-clestron-c6n-cg3-mount.html

Edit: Just realise there's no tripod.

[slartylite]

yes v heavy but also v stable and built like a tank

[slartylite]

sister has a tal 2 its bigger and heavier than she is but goes outside in three bits stand, head then ota, takes 2 mins tops

[AndyH]

I second the Tal1 recommendation. They can go for really, really good prices on the 'bay. Sometimes they come fully equiped with accessories as originally supplied.

Superb optics and solid build quality, that will last a lifetime. Weight is really not an issue as it can be split into 3 parts. In fact the weight of the pillar and eq mount helps with high power viewing ie: steady non juddering views at up to 200x.

Older ones(pre year 2000) can be uprated easily enough.

Check out the ongoing Tal 1 upgrade being done in the Tal Users Group,

Stargazers Lounge - TAL1 newbie needing some guidance

Cheers,

Andy.

[slartylite]

when you add up the cost of superb tal eyepieces and barlow lens the scope is free

[John]

Don't buy that one or anything with Seben, Big Boss, Arena, Optrons etc, etc in the name - dissapointment is bound to follow !.

Go for the established names as suggested eg: TAL, Skywatcher, Orion Optics, Celestron, Meade etc.

[AndyH]

Of course the upgrade is not necessary on the pre 2000 models(models after this are perfect and quite standard as far as eyepieces are concerned) if the scope comes with usable 25mm and 15mm eyepieces and 3x barlow. An excellent range of magnifications can be got. Only if, as in the user in the aforementioned link, there is no barlow or a broken one or wanting to use newer eyepieces does the modification need to be done.

Amazing value, these 2nd hand scopes IMHO.

Andy.

[haitch]

Yes, sorry didn't mean to just say it was heavy as a put off (but sometimes people don't realise just how substantial scopes can be). A heavier set up will, of course, be more stable and, hence, more enjoyable to use.

I have to say (when we can get an EP to focus) the Tal 1 certainly punches above it weight (or rather aperture).

I did find some EPs are usable by screwing the element from a barlow into the end of them.

The thing is, whilst a bargain to someone who knows what they are doing, I wouldn't have wanted to have to do that sort of work on my first scope as a complete beginner.

[slartylite]

dont let the weight bother you a tal 1 or 120 is managable(just) one handed and usable stable views in a gale.

[Penguin]

I have to say (when we can get an EP to focus) the Tal 1 certainly punches above it weight (or rather aperture).

I did find some EPs are usable by screwing the element from a barlow into the end of them.

Thanks for the various replies. I am now looking at that TAL1 and will leave the other scope alone. The TAL1 item does not specify what eyepieces etc it has.

This is probably another silly newbie question, but what is an 'EP'? Is that an EyePiece?

--- Penguin.

[AndyH]

Thanks for the various replies. I am now looking at that TAL1 and will leave the other scope alone. The TAL1 item does not specify what eyepieces etc it has.

This is probably another silly newbie question, but what is an 'EP'? Is that an EyePiece?

--- Penguin.

Yes EP = eyepiece.

You could try asking the seller if any eyepieces etc come with hthe scope and if there is a little plate on the back of the scope, where the main mirror is. If there is it will tell you the year of manufacture.

Cheers,

Andy.

[slartylite]

if you are looking at the e-bay tal it has the barlow lens and a 25mm plossl ep in the pic

[slartylite]

another tal 1 e-bay 170553187464 in essex at £2.20 has both ep barlow and filters

[slartylite]

last one on e-bay 150441428569 complete but £110 buy it now is pricey.

[Penguin]

Sorry, yes I have asked a question regarding the accessories, particularly eyepieces. I also have no idea where the seller is so have asked that as well (he recommends collection rather than paying for delivery).

If it does only come with one eyepiece and a Barlow multiplier, is that a huge problem? What would it cost to replace the missing ones? Had a quick look at the TAL forum you posted in your PM. Looks like missing lenses should be obtainable, particularly if it is a later model.

Is 'Barlow' a manufacturer name of just a generic term for a multiplier?

I really must do some work!!!

--- Penguin.

[AndyH]

if you are looking at the e-bay tal it has the barlow lens and a 25mm plossl ep in the pic

Indeed it does:icon_salut:

In fact, going purely by the pictures, I'd say it is a hybrid scope like mine. ie: older type pedestal and eq head, but later tube/ota. Note the thumbscrew holding the barlow/eyepiece combo in place. Early ones are push fit. The 25mm plossl also looks like my generation II ones.

Cheers,

Andy.

[slartylite]

tal usualy come with a 25mm plossl (v nice) and a 15 or 10mm kelner ep the barlow lens is a 3x multiplier usually people prefere not to post as they are heavy guess about 30kg

[slartylite]

when did the fittings change? i have a tal 120 about 15years old from beacon hill when they were in cleethorpes but it has thumbscrews

[Penguin]

Just discovered he's in Bognor Regis. That's a good 3-hour drive each way for me. Will have to look into Parcelforce charges!

[AndyH]

Thumbscrew for the focuser?

Unknown ! I've got a 1999 version and mine has the thumbscrew on the focuser. So it was before that that they changed over. It would be interesting to know exactly when they updated the focuser and eyepieces to industry standard 31.75/1.25".

The older focuser was a slip fit(no locking thumbscrew), accepting Tals 32mm diameter eyepieces at the time. So that's normally a good way of aging them from pics on ebay.

Mine weighs 18kg all in.

Cheers,

Andy.

[slartylite]

the plate on mine is 1996 although my scope was a recon by barry at beacon hills so may not be original spec