HELP!!!

[wolfspirit]

Hi

I have been interested in astronomy for a long time and I have an old Tasco 60mm refractor telescope which wobbles and which I move it left to right or right to left it moves up or down slightly and vice versa.

I am looking to buy a new telescope and I want to see nebula, andromeda, M31 etc as well as our planets. I prefer a refractor and want a fully automated GoTo telecope with a built in database of celestial objects.

I have been considering the Meade DS2080 AT LNT 80mm GoTo telescope and in the specifications for it, it said that you can see nebula through it, but in one of my books it said you need a 150 - 200mm telescope to see nebula.

Does anyone know which is true?

Also do you need a special filter to see nebula clearly. If you do, does anyone know what the special filter is called?

And in a recent Sky At Night mag review it said "the focuser had a bit of play so what we were viewing could fall out of focus"., so I'm not sure about this model now.

I'm looking to spend £200 but at a big!! push £250

I would be very grateful for any recommendatins and/or advice .

Many thanks

Ryan

[John]

Hi,

For your budget I would strongly suggest that you consider a non-goto scope. If you go GOTO most of you cash will go on the mount and very little on the optics - which are of course the important part. £200 will buy you a nice non-GOTO 6" (150mm) scope which will show you tons more than an GOTO 80mm will.

There are filters available that help see nebulae - the UHC and OIII types. They don't help with galaxies and clusters though.

Do have a hard think about your need for GOTO.

John

[Astro_Baby]

If you want GoTo and decent views of a great many objects I'd go with this Reflectors - Skywatcher Explorer 130P SynScan AZ GOTO

Its a reflector but I'd suspect almost any refractor on a GoTo with enough aperture to see nebula visually would be out of your budget.

If you really want to see a big range of objects then I'd incline to drop the GoTo and get this Reflectors - Skywatcher Explorer 150PL EQ3-2

Better mount, bigger scope.

Or go all out for aperture with this Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 200P Dobsonian which is a bit outside your budget but not by much.

A lot would depend on stuff like; do you need it to be portable, do you have somewhere to store it (the 2nd two there are quite large scopes).

The first one has a decent GoTo system and probably the best optics of any small scope available.

Bear in mind that even in an 8" scope like the SW200 there most nebula appear as small grey fuzzy patches - they dont look like the pics you see on the box or in magazines.

Take a look at this thread as well http://stargazerslounge.com/beginners-help-advice/86847-skywatcher.html

[wolfspirit]

Thanks very much - a lot to think about. If I don't go for a goto scope, how do I find celestial objects? (I'm an enthusiastic novice and had trouble finding objects with my old scope - the only object I could find was the moon and that took a great deal of trouble!!!!). I'll certainly check out the Skywatcvher range.

Thanks again

Ryan

[John]

Budget for a good book - "Turn Left at Orion" is a good starting point. You can download some freeware planetarium software such as Stellarium (try googling it) or Cartes du Ciel.

You can start learning the basic constellations with just your eyes and a book. Part of the fun, in my opinion, is learning where objects are in the sky then "hunting them down" with your scope.

John

[Astro_Baby]

Ryan,

The GoTo / Non-GoTo thing is a tough one. Most people will advise against as on a low cost scope most of trhe cash will go into the GoTo leaving not much for the optics. Its a bit like having a car that looks like a Ferrari but is powered by a lawnmower engine:)

There is an alternate view though. Sone beginners cant ever find anything without GoTo and as a consequence get depressed, bored and pack the hobby up altogether. So it very much horses for courses.

Some people will opt for a small GoTo and be disappointed with the views, other people will go for non-GoTo and never find anything.

Part of the decsion there is how much time do you have to spend on the hobby.

In my case I knew the sky in a patchy kind of way but found I seldom had the time available to relearn the sky and spend ages trying to find stuff so I upgraded to GoTo - with that said my own scope is pretty large (an 8" scope on a big mount). Something else that slows down learning the sky is the clouds and the generally poor weather in the UK.

If you decide GoTo is a must the smaller Sky-Watcher 130 I gave a link to would be a good start. Its a good scope and lots of people on here have started with the 130 in its various forms. Perhaps some the recent joiners here with a 130P could give you a users view of things.

[astropete]

try the skywatcher 127mm auto track maksutov, look at my avi, thats the scope, at about £250+ you still have to find the object, then just press the auto track buttons and it will track the object for about 5-10 mins before adjusting.

[wolfspirit]

Thank you for the quick replies.

From what i have gathered so far you need a motorised or GoTo mount to take

pics of the sky.

is this correct?

and am i right in thinking that you need to take a few pics with a digital camera and colour filters and layer them? if so how?

is this just for deep space or everywere ?

i only know a bit about a refractor

how is a reflector different? (apart from the fact that the eye piece is at the wrong end of the telescope !!! lol)

Sorry for so many questions , but I reaaly want to make the right decision.

thanks again

Ryan

[Mikea]

Welcome wolfspirit! Astro Baby is right on the button with both her posts (AB - you changed your avatar!). Now, I'm a big GOTO fan but if you really want to see nebulae and other DSOs, then your primary (sorry!) focus (sorry again!) must be biggest aperture you can afford and darkest skies you can find. For visual use, the Dobsonian mount will give you biggest aperture for lowest cost. Don't expect the visual images to compare with the pictures you see in the magazines. If you want to do imaging, then we are off on a different track (no puns there, I don't think) (oh maybe there is!!) and you will need a tracking EQ style mount -which takes money away from the optics.....

FWIW, I have the 130P GOTO and it's a brilliant bit of kit - but I don't do imaging (...yet)

Mike

[wolfspirit]

astropete

with the skywatcher 127mm auto track

can you get a GoTo later

[John]

astropete

with the skywatcher 127mm auto track

can you get a GoTo later

I think the simple answer is no, you can't add it on. With the equatorial mounts there are add-on kits for GOTO but not in your budget - the kits seem to start at £300 or so.

In reponse to your earlier query on photography - the GOTO alt-azimuth mounts that you are thinking about are OK for some simple planetary imaging with a webcam but not suitable for deep sky, long exposure imaging. To be honest I would focus on getting a decent visual outfit and learning the sky and how to use your equipment before venturing into imaging - it's a whole new world of technical understanding, equipment and £'s to be spent !.

John

[iamjulian]

If you are worried about finding things, do take into account that finding stuff with a £200 telescope on a sturdy mount is a hundred times easier than with a 60mm refractor on a thin legged tripod that wobbles like a jelly. I have both I am sure GoTo is great, but it really isn't too difficult to find things once you learn a few constellations.

If you get a GoTo with a small aperture, you may find you'll soon be wanting more aperture and therefore a new scope. Is there any way you could find someone living near you, or a local astronomy club where you could have a look at various scopes, give you a better idea of what would suit?

[wolfspirit]

Thank you everyone.

You have made me realise that I was aiming too high wanting to take images of dso's.

Thank you for the idea of joining a club - I'll find out if there is one in my area.

I understand what you are saying about GoTo versus non-GoTo, but having had so much trouble with my old scope, and giving up on it, I am not very confident about learning to find my own way round.

Thank you for suggesting the Skywatcher 130 it looks a very good possibility. Can someone please just tell me what I could realistically see with it.

Also is there much difference in the technique of using a reflector and refractor.

Many thanks for all your help - its getting a lot clearer now and I've leart loads.

Ryan

[jimhaleysscomet]

I hope the following observing notes comparing the Skywatcher Heritage 130P to the Orion XTi 8" dob will help answer your question.......

Viewed M13 in both scopes as darkness fell. The best single statement comparison would be objects in 8” are about twice the size (without loosing contrast) as ones in the 5”.

The 5” did throw up great views, that I think any beginner would like.

Viewed the blinking planetary in the 8” and got it to blink (barlow ethos 13) by blinking my eye. Barely non steller in 8” 13mm. Stellar looking in 40mm. Never found it in the 5”.

Ring nebula. Again in both scopes, but difficult to find in the 5” 32mm because so small! 8” better displayed clear area in middle (more of a donut than just a sphere).

Blue snowball only in 8” due to location.

Andromeda Nice large glow in the 5”. Not in 8” because behind house.

M39 Almost lost triangle shape due to large size in 8” 40mm, but double star in center easy.

Nicer easy to notice triangle shape in 5” 32mm but double star in center very tiny and barely visible.

M52 open cluster in both scopes. But not very impressive in the 5”.

M15, M92. Great in both scopes but twice as big in the 8”.

Albiero nice in both but 8” shows better color contrast. Either one shows better color if defocus or bump scope.

Double double Possible in both scopes but barely in the 5” (but did do using stock 10mm - barlowed eyepiece). In stock eyepieces (supplied with 5”) all four stars were only visible in the center 50% of the eyepiece view. As the double double approached 25% from the edge one of the doubles would merge back into one star.

Dumbell nebula both scopes, twice as big in 8”

At the end of the evening (10:30pm) could “just” make out little dipper unaided eyes.

Could not get nikon 10x50 bino stars to merge and too shaky.

32mm nice addition, barlow necessary.

Here are my conclusions.......

24 September Heritage scope first light (and orion 8” Xti)

Last week I purchased the Sky Watcher Heritage 130P Flex Tube 5.1" f5 (650mm) Dob for £130 (shipped) from ScopesNSkies in the UK with 40 degree 25mm / 10mm eyepieces and red dot finder (plus free barlow and beginner books). I was curious how it would work for a beginner and I purchased it so I could have a nice compact scope to store in my car. Last night I had the chance to compare it to my Orion 8"XTi scope.

My conclusion is that it is a fine beginner scope, possibly the best one at the under $200/£150 price point in the UK. The flex tube works extremely well (compact storage but rigid during deployment). The mount is rigid (If on the ground or sturdy table) and the included eyepieces were sufficient. I had to loosen the base nut a tad to get the azimuth bearing smooth. Collimation was almost dead on out of the box. Of course it benefits from plossl eyepieces (especially a 32mm wide field for finding things). While I am a firm believer that aperture rules, a 5/6" scope is still a potent telescope. Remember that just about everything we view is small or dim but beginner objects are less small and less dim. I viewed a range of typical (relatively bright/ relatively large) beginner objects like Globulars (M13), Open Clusters (M52), Galaxies (Andromeda), the double double and the ring nebula (planetary). The only "beginner" objects I could not find in the 5" were small planetaries (blinking planetary for one) not near any other stars.

My main impression of the 5" over an 8" scope was that all the objects were about twice as big in the 8" for a given eyepiece focal length. Of course this falls out of the mathematics but it goes further. The extra aperture on the 8" made objects about as bright as those in the 5" even though they were twice as large. This highlights the advantage to the beginner of the extra power of the 8". The novice will find locating objects in the 8" is easier than in the 5". Another advantage of the 8" is stars stayed "sparkly" (more aesthetic) as I boosted the power (about twice as much). However, in both scopes the views became somewhat dull (no glittering stars) as I boosted the power above 100x in the 5" and about 200x in the 8".

One other difference between the two scopes was the "push to" computer locator on the 8"XTi. I found it extremely helpful locating objects in the city that might not be close to bright stars. Helpful enough to say, if I were a beginner and (for cost reasons) had to choose between 2" more aperture and the push to computer in a 5/6" scope I would go with the computer (especially if my time for observing was limited). The 5" is a bit more portable and the 8" definitely takes bit more space.

So here is what I will recommend to beginners who ask for my advice in the future.

1. Consider holding off on long exposure photography until after you learn to use a visual scope.

2. Get thee to a star party to see the various scopes before you purchase.

3. If after the star party is over, you can only allocate £150 consider the SkyWatcher Heritage 130P.

4. If you can afford a bit over £300 consider the Orion StarBlast 6i Intelliscope.

5. If you can afford a bit over £400 consider the Orion XT6 Intelliscope.

6. If you can afford a bit over £500 consider the Orion XT8 Intelliscope.

[Capricorn]

Ryan, where about are you in the UK - I really think that supplying a meaningful location should be pert of the registration. It is just so damn helpful.

Concerning the choice, if you want a goto then get one. I have 2, ETX 70, ETX 105 and I also have a WO Meg90. The scope I use most is the 70. The smallest of the lot and the one with the worst specification and performance. Reason is simple, it is the easiest to use and set up. So it gets dragged out the most and I look through it the most.

The other reason I say this is that there is an old saying: It is better to regret something you have done then something you haven't.

Concerning what to look at. You will have to work on that. Messier's that are better then say Mag 8, double stars, planets such as Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. Other planets will simply be dots, as the stars are. Oh yes and the moon, I keep forgetting the moon.

Messiers include Open and Globular clusters and some nebulae. Some one on the cloudy nights site has been recording his viewing of DSO's through a 4inch scope.

[wolfspirit]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all your ideas, help & advice.

I found out that Evergreen Optics is only 1/2 hour from me, so I managed to actually get to see lots of scopes and I interrogated the poor guy for near on an hour!!! He was very helpful though and didn't seem to mind.

I have decided that a GoTo system will benefit me more than the extra aperture, so I am going to go for the Skywatcher 130P GoTo.

Thanks again you've all been a great help.

Best wishes

Ryan

[adamsp123]

I am not far from there Ryan, where abouts are you? I am based in Welshpool.

[Mikea]

Good choice Ryan! Let us know if you have any questions

[Jeremy]

I am going to go for the Skywatcher 130P GoTo.

You should find that this particular telescope will give you considerable enjoyment, and you will not regret its purchase. It has an excellent combination of performance and portability, and can be left set-up in an average living room when not in use - without it dominating its surroundings.

It is a good choice.

[wolfspirit]

hi adamsp123

i am based near newtown

do you know of any local astronomy clubs

ryan

[adamsp123]

Ryan, I work in Newtown (CT) gro.

Nearest club... Shrewsbury and I am going to see if the Marches group still meet at the spaceguard centre Knighton...let you know.

BTW have you seen they are going to have temp traffic lights (again) at the new Tescos for 14 weeks into the new year!!!!!!

If you need any help feel free to ask.

Pete