My First (Dobsonian) Telescope Maybe?

[nige745]

20 hours ago, Pixies said:

I have an 8" Bresser dob. I'm very happy with it and no regrets about choosing it over others (although the GSO ones weren't available then).

One thing about it, though. The finder that comes with it is awful, so  budget replacing it with a decent RACI (and RDF).

Would you choose a 10" or 12" now over the 8"? The finder on the Bresser is a worry.

[nige745]

20 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

I'd very much recommend a zoom eyepiece as your workhorse. One zoom eyepiece will cover multiple focal lengths and so is really excellent value for money.

Despite having high quality fixed focal length eyepieces, I use my zooms a lot more often. The zoom plus a Barlow lens and a low power, wide field eyepiece is often all I and others use the whole evening.

Fixed focal length eyepieces may be slightly better corrected when compared with a zoom at the same magnification. But that's not always a fair comparison as that magnification may not be the optimum for a given object. This is because one of the many advantages of a zoom is to be able to dial in precisely the best focal length. For instance, this may be 13mm or even 13.1mm, which may actually show more detail than shorter or longer fixed focal length eyepieces - even better quality ones.

I especially like the ability to increase the magnification to make use of brief moments of good seeing (a steady atmosphere). It takes more time to swap out an eyepiece, and the opportunity may then be missed. You can't see anything if you haven't got an eyepiece in the focuser!

They also make it easy to reacquire an object if it drifts out of the field of view by zooming out to a lower power. This is especially useful when showing objects to others.

Zooms also enable the field of view to be varied to frame an object to get the prettiest view. For this reason I particularly like them for clusters.

Many of those who post on forums advocating fixed focal lengths are experienced observers. It's so easy to forget what it was like as a beginner! A zoom eyepiece enables beginners to easily learn what difference a change of magnification makes on all the various classes of object. It also shows them what focal lengths would be most useful to their eyes, their telescope, and their observing conditions. They then have the option of buying/not buying the most appropriate fixed focal length eyepieces for them.

For these reasons I'd always recommend that beginners buy a zoom as their first eyepiece.

Great bit of advice and now you have explained it, I understand why. I will definitely look into a zoom eyepiece now. 

[nige745]

13 minutes ago, AstralFields said:

First, getting an 8" is a very safe bet. Even if you buy it new and sell it few months/years down the road, you won't lose more than about a 100$ on it. Buying it used, will in the end cost you zero as you sell it for the same money.

My first telescope 2 years ago was an 8" Sky-Watcher. I should've bought the GSO/Stellalyra as it is cheaper a bit and has a lot better accessories.

Few months ago, I upgraded to a GSO 12". It is better in each and every way but I would never have survived it as a first telescope. The 8" honed my skills both in observing and equipment so that by the time I got to the 12" I knew exactly what I was doing and am now able to optimize my experience and handle the extra weight / focal ratio well.

I wouldn't touch a Dobsonian without wheels on the base (you can mount them yourself) and carrying straps for the 12". Makes things so much easier with handling the 12 and even transporting with my car.

Check my channel below for the 8" review, the 12" comparison and some budget friendly equipment.

I've already been watching your videos!! 😀 You made an equatorial mount for the 12" Dob. I have been watching so many different creators over the past weeks. You make good videos as well. Getting an 8" would save me some money that I could put towards equipment. I never thought about honing my skills in that way at all. Great advice.

[Astronomist]

IMHO there isnt a lot to choose between any of the current dobsonian offerings, but personally I'd buy an 8" Bresser due to marginally better build quality and reasonable price. However I can confirm the included finder is completely useless. The GSO one though is quite nice and works fine. I would also recommend a Telrad finder to compliment it, which just sticks to the tube with double sided tape.

To clarify, I'm not sure if this has been posted above or not, but the RVO horizon, Stellalyra, GSO, Omegon prodob, and several others are all exactly the same scopes but with different paint jobs, all made in taiwan by GSO. The Skywatcher and Celestron dobs are made by Synta, and the Bresser is made by JOC.

BTW it's better if you do one longer post instead of many consecutive posts in one go, as it makes the thread easier to read 

Edited August 13 by Astronomist

[AstralFields]

4 minutes ago, nige745 said:

I've already been watching your videos!! 😀 You made an equatorial mount for the 12" Dob. I have been watching so many different creators over the past weeks. You make good videos as well. Getting an 8" would save me some money that I could put towards equipment. I never thought about honing my skills in that way at all. Great advice.

Btw.. I agree about the Zooms. In my view anybody and everybody should have some kind of a Zoom eyepiece, not just beginners. They are just too much fun and not at all expensive. I put out a video just few minutes ago on that topic recommending the SVBony SV191.

[YogSothoth]

2 hours ago, nige745 said:

Do these clip on to the finder?

The telescope will have a finder shoe. You simply slide the finder scope into it and tighten the small screw on the side to stop it from falling out. A right angle finder is much easier to use than a straight through finder.

[YogSothoth]

This is completely unrelated to telescope choice, but I think you mentioned that you don’t know your way around the sky? If so, while you’re deciding what scope to get, why not get yourself a Phillips Planisphere (£10.95 on Amazon), a comfy chair and a head torch with a red light. Just sitting out in the garden at night looking up at the sky and learning the constellations, is a great way to spend 1/2hr.

[Second Time Around]

Jules asked earlier if you can navigate around the night sky.  This is more important than it first appears.

In my experience one of the most common reasons beginners drop out, indeed probably the single most common, is that they struggle to find objects. 

The traditional way is by starhopping from star to star.  This does give the thrill of the chase, but is time consuming and can be difficult until you gain experience.

So in my opinion Starsense Explorer (SSE) that Jules recommended is a game changer.  In particular, it enables you to see a lot more objects in a session.

Celestron now sell Dobsonians equiped with Starsense Explorer.  However, you pay a considerable premium over a similar scope from their sister Skywatcher brand.

Instead, for a similar total price, I'd suggest buying a GSO or, better still a Bresser, plus the least expensive 70mm Starsense Explorer refractor.  That way, you'll have an extra scope with a shorter focal length for wide field views.  It'll also be a lightweight "grab and go" scope to easily and quickly carry outside for short sessions as it doesn't need any cool down time.  Nearly all of us soon end up with 2 scopes, including such a refractor anyway.

Unlike Astrohopper, the app is fast and really easy to use. Indeed, my 8 year old grandson found no problem whatsoever on the scope I bought for him and his sister.

I was so impressed with Starsense Explorer that I bought myself another of the 70mm refractors, and adapted the mount so that it fits into a standard Synta finder shoe and so can be moved from scope to scope. This just needs a 3D printed adapter - ask if you need help with this.

With a recent huge update to the database it seems SSE now contains all the objects in SkySafari Plus, and so will keep anyone busy for a lifetime.

A further advantage of a Starsense Explorer scope is is that you don't need a RACI finder.  This is because Starsense Explorer itself is the finder.  It's accurate enough to put an object in the field of view of a low power eyepiece.  It just needs aligning during the day using the supplied red dot finder.  However, the 6x30 straight through finder supplied with the Bresser Dobs would be even better for this, and indeed better than a RACI during the day as you won't be looking up.

In fact, unless you live somewhere with a lot of light pollution, you may not even need the red dot finder. Just point your scope in the general direction of a bright star and you'll probably see it on your phone screen. A planet, or better still the moon, will make it even easier. Then just line the crosshair up on the object and Starsense Explorer will do the rest.

Have a look at the videos and reviews on YouTube and I reckon you may well be sold on Starsense Explorer.  Despite being brought up on starhopping, once I used Starsense Explorer there was no going back.

Edited August 13 by Second Time Around

[nige745]

4 hours ago, Astronomist said:

IMHO there isnt a lot to choose between any of the current dobsonian offerings, but personally I'd buy an 8" Bresser due to marginally better build quality and reasonable price. However I can confirm the included finder is completely useless. The GSO one though is quite nice and works fine. I would also recommend a Telrad finder to compliment it, which just sticks to the tube with double sided tape.

To clarify, I'm not sure if this has been posted above or not, but the RVO horizon, Stellalyra, GSO, Omegon prodob, and several others are all exactly the same scopes but with different paint jobs, all made in taiwan by GSO. The Skywatcher and Celestron dobs are made by Synta, and the Bresser is made by JOC.

BTW it's better if you do one longer post instead of many consecutive posts in one go, as it makes the thread easier to read 

The 8" Bresser looks a really nice scope. The info on the where the scopes are made is great. I was thinking about all the separate quotes I was making on the 4th or 5th one 🫣 Sorry I'm new to this posting thing as you may well have guessed 😆

 

1 hour ago, YogSothoth said:

This is completely unrelated to telescope choice, but I think you mentioned that you don’t know your way around the sky? If so, while you’re deciding what scope to get, why not get yourself a Phillips Planisphere (£10.95 on Amazon), a comfy chair and a head torch with a red light. Just sitting out in the garden at night looking up at the sky and learning the constellations, is a great way to spend 1/2hr.

Another great idea. I have ordered a Planisphere. I have a decent garden chair and a head torch for running which has a red light on.

 

1 hour ago, Second Time Around said:

Jules asked earlier if you can navigate around the night sky.  This is more important than it first appears.

In my experience one of the most common reasons beginners drop out, indeed probably the single most common, is that they struggle to find objects.

I found this with my old rubbish scope (present from a girlfriend 30 years ago). This is something that I was/am concerned about.

 

2 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

Instead, for a similar total price, I'd suggest buying a GSO or, better still a Bresser, plus the least expensive 70mm Starsense Explorer refractor.  That way, you'll have an extra scope with a shorter focal length for wide field views.  It'll also be a lightweight "grab and go" scope to easily and quickly carry outside for short sessions as it doesn't need any cool down time.  Nearly all of us soon end up with 2 scopes, including such a refractor anyway.

 

2 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

I was so impressed with Starsense Explorer that I bought myself another of the 70mm refractors, and adapted the mount so that it fits into a standard Synta finder shoe. This just needs a 3D printed adapter - ask if you need help with this.

 

2 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

A further advantage of a Starsense Explorer scope is is that you don't need a RACI finder.  This is because Starsense Explorer itself is the finder.  It's accurate enough to put an object in the field of view of a low power eyepiece.  It just needs aligning during the day using the supplied red dot finder.  However, the 6x30 straight through finder supplied with the Bresser Dobs would be even better for this, and indeed better than a RACI during the day.

If I bought the Bresser 8" & the StarSense Explorer 70mm would I be using these seperatly or mounting the StarSense on the Bressner? Sorry if this is a really stupid question. If I were to use them separately would I need to replace the Bressner finder with a better finder? Would I mount a Telrad finder on the scope as well?

[Second Time Around]

The Starsense Explorer mounts on a finder fitting (called a shoe) and so can easily be moved from scope to scope.  I've amended my earlier post to reflect this.

You'd normally be using the scopes separately.

No, you wouldn't need another finder or a Telrad. If you go with this 2 scope solution I'd suggest you keep the 6x30 straight through finder on the Bresser and the red dot finder that comes with the Starsense Explorer on the refractor. You can then use these to align the Starsense Explorer unit so it's pointing in the same direction as each scope.

Edited August 13 by Second Time Around

[Griffsters]

This thread is awesome - I came here via google with similar questions!

[nige745]

35 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

The Starsense Explorer mounts on a finder fitting (called a shoe) and so can easily be moved from scope to scope.  I've amended my earlier post to reflect this.

You'd normally be using the scopes separately.

No, you wouldn't need another finder or a Telrad. If you go with this 2 scope solution I'd suggest you keep the 6x30 straight through finder on the Bresser and the red dot finder that comes with the Starsense Explorer on the refractor. You can then use these to align the Starsense Explorer unit so it's pointing in the same direction as each scope.

Are you talking about the StarSense phone mount going on to the Bressner? Is this where the 3d printer comes in? I hope I've got this right!

[Second Time Around]

Yes, that's right. You just need to modify the existing Starsense Explorer mount by changing screws so that it fits into standard finder shoes.  This is done with this 3D printed part: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4868065

You'll need to buy 2 inexpensive finder shoes as Bresser/Explore Scientific ones are a non-standard design.  One of these you screw onto the Dob to replace the Bresser shoe.  You can probably do the same with the refractor, but this might mean undoing the focuser to get access to the main tube to tighten the nuts.  If not you'll have to glue it.  Sorry, I'm not at home so can't check.

Here's a link to the finder shoes at a very good price: https://www.svbony.com/multi-function-dovetail-slots/#W2370A Click at the top right to convert to pounds sterling,

Edited August 14 by Second Time Around

[Artik]

16 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

Unlike Astrohopper, the app is fast and really easy to use. Indeed, my 8 year old grandson found no problem whatsoever on the scope I bought for him and his sister.

I totally agree that SSE is much easier to find stuff for somebody who does not know to find stuff at sky at all: i.e. not familiar even with basic constellations or know to compare sky map with actual skies, so for kids it would be simpler to use...

BUT

Actually for kids - AstroHopper actually helps you to learn the sky - identify some constellations. find bright stars look at the map and thus further understand what you are looking at.

So it is double sided sword - especially when talking to kids. If you give AstroHopper to a kid it would take little bit more time but it gives him/her actual knowledge of sky.

[PeterStudz]

19 hours ago, AstralFields said:

Btw.. I agree about the Zooms. In my view anybody and everybody should have some kind of a Zoom eyepiece, not just beginners. They are just too much fun and not at all expensive. I put out a video just few minutes ago on that topic recommending the SVBony SV191.

I have tried zooms. I really wanted to like zoom eyepieces, but not for me… I just cannot get on with them! 

[Ratlet]

An alternative mounting method for the SSE holder is this one that I designed:

https://www.printables.com/model/559841-starsense-explorer-finder-shoe-mount-holder

It doesn't require anything to be removed from the donor starsense telescope, and had a marginally lower profile.

I've done a few for people on the forum (cost +postage +hobnob tax), or if you have your own printer you can print your own 

[nige745]

1 hour ago, Ratlet said:

I've done a few for people on the forum (cost +postage +hobnob tax), or if you have your own printer you can print your own 

Thanks for the info, it's really good to know. I think the hobnob tax is a must and very reasonable! 😃

I don't have a printer myself but could get access to one through work.

[Ratlet]

7 minutes ago, nige745 said:

Thanks for the info, it's really good to know. I think the hobnob tax is a must and very reasonable! 😃

I don't have a printer myself but could get access to one through work.

That's good to hear.  Hopefully you also have access to chocolate covered hobnobs (or their superior Aldi brethren)

[nige745]

I've bit the bullet and after loads of umming and arrring have bought the 8" Bresser. A really big thank you to everyone who has commented on this post and helped me come to this decision. I didn't expect to have as many people respond and put their input in, to help me. You guys are pretty cool! I'm really glad I came here as I might have ended up with a scope that I wouldn't really use and have been put off something I have wanted to do properly for ages.

I've still got lots of questions to ask.

I'm going to ask them on a different post from this one.

 

Thanks again folks.

 

 

Edited August 16 by nige745