Filters

[Flame Nebula]

Hi, 

I've read that the zwo ir/uv cut filter is useful, for planetary AP, possibly also for guidescopes to reduce haze(?), but I'm less clear on the essential filters for dso AP. I live under bortle 6 skies (according to a couple of sources, but not confirmed in my exact location), so wondered what would be recommended for countering this level of LP? 

Not sure if it helps but ssume, dslr D7000 and SW ed80, potentially also SW 200pds.

Hopefully you can advise. 

Thanks 

Mark 

 

[Elp]

For "true" colour broadband RGB imaging you only need a UV/IR cut or luminence filter. But depending on your local lighting conditions and the direction and altitude you're imaging will dictate the gradients you'll get across the image. This can be easily sorted in post process gradient removal. Generally avoid LPS/CLS type filters or general LP filters for this type of imaging as it blocks a lot of the signal you're trying to capture, they are also not so effective against the current issue of blocking LED lighting signal as it's typically broadband light, they used to work well against the old sodium lights. The general consensus is if doing this type of imaging go somewhere darker or only image if it's fairly high in altitude.

What isn't so easy is it that local stray light gets into the scope and hits the sensor, or even lighting sky glow can also do it and some filters can exasperate the issue (I get it with my lextreme). The moon is a typical culprit which tends to appear next to where you plan on imaging.

The lextreme however is excellent at separating signal and background sky to pass through HA and O3 rich emission targets, since its release there are far more OSC options like Tri/quad band, dual Ha/O3 and S2/O3, ones which minimise star haloes (lextreme unfortunately suffers from it, there's a only the Antlia ALPT I think which doesn't, or suffers very little but it's not cheap).

You have to decide on what you want to image and buy accordingly. Imaging in LP can be challenging and also rewarding. Due to my LP I decided early to go mono so imaging narrowband, LP has minimal effect (other than to O3).

Edited April 5 by Elp

[Flame Nebula]

8 minutes ago, Elp said:

For "true" colour broadband RGB imaging you only need a UV/IR cut or luminence filter. But depending on your local lighting conditions and the direction and altitude you're imaging will dictate the gradients you'll get across the image. This can be easily sorted in post process gradient removal. Generally avoid LPS/CLS type filters or general LP filters for this type of imaging as it blocks a lot of the signal you're trying to capture, they are also not so effective against the current issue of blocking LED lighting signal as it's typically broadband light, they used to work well against the old sodium lights. The general consensus is if doing this type of imaging go somewhere darker or only image if it's fairly high in altitude.

What isn't so easy is it that local stray light gets into the scope and hits the sensor, or even lighting sky glow can also do it and some filters can exasperate the issue (I get it with my lextreme). The moon is a typical culprit which tends to appear next to where you plan on imaging.

The lextreme however is excellent at separating signal and background sky to pass through HA and O3 rich emission targets, since its release there are far more OSC options like Tri/quad band, dual Ha/O3 and S2/O3, ones which minimise star haloes (lextreme unfortunately suffers from it, there's a only the Antlia ALPT I think which doesn't, or suffers very little but it's not cheap).

You have to decide on what you want to image and buy accordingly. Imaging in LP can be challenging and also rewarding. Due to my LP I decided early to go mono so imaging narrowband, LP has minimal effect (other than to O3).

Thanks Elp, 

Initially, I'll be spreading myself out with some AP planetary (I've timed my saving plans over the last three years, to get ready for Jupiter this year, although obviously, other astronomical objects are available with the kit I have planned 😉). 

For DSO, you'll never guess what the first two targets will be?😁

For DSO long integrations, I'm planning to be able to control the capture from inside the house too, if it's really cold, as apparently the air plus can do that, if I have the zwo electronic focusser. So, that's on the list now! Very good reviews. (The hours of research I've put in, has been ridiculous, but it's paying off now) 

I have to investigate the capture software too. I believe zwo has their own software, but at present, my education on sharpcam, nina, etc etc is minimal. Plenty of time to brush up over summer though, 🙂. 

So, I just hope my 10 Yr old dell T430 is up to things. Apparently, it can connect wirelessly to the air plus and stack images live. Amazing if it can. It's been refurbished to 16Gb Ram, and I have two 500Gb external ssd drives, I can connect to it via usb3.0. I have access to adobe PS on creative cloud, so that's sorted. 

I really need now to draw some kind of flow chart, from capture kit to sub-capture process (workflow).

I'm holding back on an expensive imaging camera for DSO for now . The one you mentioned looks nice, I think it was the 585,although the 533 seems highly recommended too. But, ive budgetted for the bargain 224mc for planetary. 

Anyway, excuse my ramblings! Assuming you are still awake? 

Thanks 

Mark 

[Elp]

If you're set on getting the asiair over other options, you don't need any other software for image acquisition, it does what you need.

From the top of my head in order it has sections for, focusing, polar alignment, preview, plan, autorun, video and live. First two are self explanatory, preview you can see what's in the night sky and goto and take quick images or check your framing, plan you set the image capture session and set it off, you can also plan multiple targets and mosaics and run it in one go, autorun is the older method you can simply set it to take images straight away (also use it to take your calibration if it's not fully automated), video is for planetary and live is for EAA.

All controllable via the mobile phone app over the controlling devices WiFi connection or you can use a tablet.

With the latest update you can also stack on the unit, but I'd learn doing it on PC instead. If using the live mode it stacks on the fly as per EAA workflow.

You don't really need an autofocuser, a lot of people go into it (maybe thinking too much about it and getting excited), focus does change through the night due to temperature but in the 4-5 years I've been doing it I've never changed focus during a session, I also focus manually and my images to me don't suffer from this workflow drastically (even if the statistics state otherwise from my subs). It may be different circumstances in vastly temperature changing environments. I just think it's an unnecessary complication, and also requires more thought into power requirements if off site use is a consideration.

[Elp]

If you can find a used 485 that will be a good starter planetary and dso cam. It's what I did when I was assessing whether the 585 was worth it, but ultimately the 533 was the one I wanted. But having used the latter I prefer a larger 3:2 format camera (the 485/585 are 16:9 ratio format). You never keep the setup settled for long in this hobby.

[Flame Nebula]

1 hour ago, Elp said:

If you're set on getting the asiair over other options, you don't need any other software for image acquisition, it does what you need.

From the top of my head in order it has sections for, focusing, polar alignment, preview, plan, autorun, video and live. First two are self explanatory, preview you can see what's in the night sky and goto and take quick images or check your framing, plan you set the image capture session and set it off, you can also plan multiple targets and mosaics and run it in one go, autorun is the older method you can simply set it to take images straight away (also use it to take your calibration if it's not fully automated), video is for planetary and live is for EAA.

All controllable via the mobile phone app over the controlling devices WiFi connection or you can use a tablet.

With the latest update you can also stack on the unit, but I'd learn doing it on PC instead. If using the live mode it stacks on the fly as per EAA workflow.

You don't really need an autofocuser, a lot of people go into it (maybe thinking too much about it and getting excited), focus does change through the night due to temperature but in the 4-5 years I've been doing it I've never changed focus during a session, I also focus manually and my images to me don't suffer from this workflow drastically (even if the statistics state otherwise from my subs). It may be different circumstances in vastly temperature changing environments. I just think it's an unnecessary complication, and also requires more thought into power requirements if off site use is a consideration.

Thanks for this useful info. 

Based on your comments about the eaf, given it's £200, I'll hold off on that. 👍

You mentioned doing stacking on the PC,rsther than let the air do it, and I like the idea of learning sharpcap/nina, which I assume would be the capture options on PC? I've seen different opinions on these : some people use both, sharpcam for planetary, nina for dso, but I've seen some people who use sharpcam for planetary and dso like galaxies.

I've also seen one comment that which one to use can be affected by whether dslr or imaging camera is used. In my case initially it would be dslr for dso, asi224mc planets. 

Best wishes 

Mark 

Edited April 5 by Flame Nebula

[Elp]

I'm not familiar with the typical desktop acquisition software (Sharpcap, NINA, APT etc), they perhaps have more advanced tools within. I've always used what I'd consider more "mainstream" (to me anyway) software for DSO pre processing such as Deep Sky Stacker, Siril and though I don't use it Pixinsight, and for planetary Autostakkert and Registax. Look into and use whatever you feel comfortable with.

[PhilB61]

Regarding laptop/desktop pc acquisition software I think I have tried many/most of the current free/donation ware Windows  packages available including NINA, APT, Backyard Nikon, Sharpcap ASICap, Firecapture, Altair Capture etc. Some are more aimed and suited to EEA or Planetary imaging and others more for long exposure DSO imaging. For me NINA is the stand out best, not just in terms of it's flexibility and overall functionality but also for it's user interface. Like all software there is a learning curve, but it's pretty short due to the intuitive layout of the menu's etc.

 

For stacking I now exclusively use Siril, previously I used DSS but this now seems dated, Siril gives much more options at the pre processing and stacking stages, but at the expense of greater complexity to master. For planetary I have used Pipp, Registax and Autostakkert with success.

 

For post processing of dso stacked images, again I primarily use Siril, together with Starnet and GraXpert, and for final tweaks I may use GIMP (similar to earlier Photoshop versions but free)

 

You may notice that most of the above are open source,  free or donation software but this does not imply that they are poor or inferior products,  in fact many are cutting edge and in ongoing development. I do have one piece of paid for processing software which is Startools, I still occasionally use it but more often I prefer the results achieved using Siril, probably more a reflection on me than any deficiency in the software though. 

 

You could just download them all and have a play, see which ones you like most.  

 

In addition to the above there are also a number of paid for software packages, with a range of costs. At this stage I would say there is no need to go down that route but it maybe something to consider in the future when you have a better idea of what you want/need.

[Flame Nebula]

2 hours ago, PhilB61 said:

Regarding laptop/desktop pc acquisition software I think I have tried many/most of the current free/donation ware Windows  packages available including NINA, APT, Backyard Nikon, Sharpcap ASICap, Firecapture, Altair Capture etc. Some are more aimed and suited to EEA or Planetary imaging and others more for long exposure DSO imaging. For me NINA is the stand out best, not just in terms of it's flexibility and overall functionality but also for it's user interface. Like all software there is a learning curve, but it's pretty short due to the intuitive layout of the menu's etc.

 

For stacking I now exclusively use Siril, previously I used DSS but this now seems dated, Siril gives much more options at the pre processing and stacking stages, but at the expense of greater complexity to master. For planetary I have used Pipp, Registax and Autostakkert with success.

 

For post processing of dso stacked images, again I primarily use Siril, together with Starnet and GraXpert, and for final tweaks I may use GIMP (similar to earlier Photoshop versions but free)

 

You may notice that most of the above are open source,  free or donation software but this does not imply that they are poor or inferior products,  in fact many are cutting edge and in ongoing development. I do have one piece of paid for processing software which is Startools, I still occasionally use it but more often I prefer the results achieved using Siril, probably more a reflection on me than any deficiency in the software though. 

 

You could just download them all and have a play, see which ones you like most.  

 

In addition to the above there are also a number of paid for software packages, with a range of costs. At this stage I would say there is no need to go down that route but it maybe something to consider in the future when you have a better idea of what you want/need.

Very comprehensive reply Phil👍. Thanks for this, it's very useful. 

How do you rate Sharpcap against NINA, for planetary capture? From other places I've come to think NINA = DSO capture, Sharpcap = planets. 

Your advice to download them all and try them, is a good idea, and others have said this too. I was interested that GIMP can do what photoshop can, but for free. 🙂

Thanks 

Mark

[PhilB61]

I think they are both very good and that you are correct in that Sharpcap is more suited to planetary and NINA for DSO. In addition to image acquisition Sharpcap has tools for sensor analysis and polar alignment (with paid version) but it does not integrate with or control your mount or other peripherals. On the other hand NINA will integrate with every aspect of your system camera, mount, guider, focuser, plate solver, and much more and help you plan and implement a complete imaging session from start to finish. A typical session for me would be  polar alignment with 3PPA plugin, focusing, target planning, schedule of image acquisition, dithering etc, slew to target, plate solve and sync, start guider, cool camera, start taking images, order into files and folders as specified, automated meridian flip etc and at end of session park telescope and warm camera, transfer photos to main pc. However it is easy enough to start simple and add in the more elements as you progress. 

If you have used earlier versions of Photoshop then Gimp will feel quite familiar, very similar tools, icons and layout. It's a powerful piece of software but obviously lacks some of the more recent tools of it's paid for competitors.

[bosun21]

Sharpcap can be used to integrate with all the other software via ASCOM like mount, camera control etc as well as plate solving Stellarium etc. For planetary imaging there are basically two that are mainly used. Those being Sharpcap and Firecapture. They are both similar however I chose to use Sharpcap as i found that i could attain a higher frame rate using that for the same ROI and settings. I also have set up Sharpcap with ASCOM for doing EAA.

[Flame Nebula]

5 hours ago, PhilB61 said:

I think they are both very good and that you are correct in that Sharpcap is more suited to planetary and NINA for DSO. In addition to image acquisition Sharpcap has tools for sensor analysis and polar alignment (with paid version) but it does not integrate with or control your mount or other peripherals. On the other hand NINA will integrate with every aspect of your system camera, mount, guider, focuser, plate solver, and much more and help you plan and implement a complete imaging session from start to finish. A typical session for me would be  polar alignment with 3PPA plugin, focusing, target planning, schedule of image acquisition, dithering etc, slew to target, plate solve and sync, start guider, cool camera, start taking images, order into files and folders as specified, automated meridian flip etc and at end of session park telescope and warm camera, transfer photos to main pc. However it is easy enough to start simple and add in the more elements as you progress. 

If you have used earlier versions of Photoshop then Gimp will feel quite familiar, very similar tools, icons and layout. It's a powerful piece of software but obviously lacks some of the more recent tools of it's paid for competitors.

Thanks 👍. I'll definitely be starting simply, 😬

[Flame Nebula]

2 hours ago, bosun21 said:

Sharpcap can be used to integrate with all the other software via ASCOM like mount, camera control etc as well as plate solving Stellarium etc. For planetary imaging there are basically two that are mainly used. Those being Sharpcap and Firecapture. They are both similar however I chose to use Sharpcap as i found that i could attain a higher frame rate using that for the same ROI and settings. I also have set up Sharpcap with ASCOM for doing EAA.

Thanks. 

I plan to use an ASIAIR plus to control capture, but I'd like to familiarise myself with the alternatives. 

[bosun21]

40 minutes ago, Flame Nebula said:

Thanks. 

I plan to use an ASIAIR plus to control capture, but I'd like to familiarise myself with the alternatives. 

Planetary capture is better on Sharpcap, Firecapture etc as the ASIAIR isn't as refined for planetary imaging as it is for AP.

[Flame Nebula]

3 hours ago, bosun21 said:

Planetary capture is better on Sharpcap, Firecapture etc as the ASIAIR isn't as refined for planetary imaging as it is for AP.

OK. Hopefully I can connect to the asiair from a PC, wirelessly, and stack live. Otherwise, I'll have to presumably store the capture on the asiair and stack etc later.