Pegasus Ultimate Powerbox setting up problems

[StuartT]

I just connected up my new UPB for the first time and downloaded the USB driver and software.

Using NINA I can connect to the ZWO camera ok, but I can't connect to the mount. I also can't connect to the UPB in NINA

I wonder if may EQMOD is confusing it somehow? The camera connects to NINA directly, so maybe that's why it's connecting ok? (I do know that EQMOD gets very confused about COM ports changing...)

I'm generally a bit baffled.

Edited September 11, 2021 by StuartT

[StevieDvd]

See Pegasus instructions here for NINA

HTH

[StuartT]

2 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

See Pegasus instructions here for NINA

HTH

Yes, that's what I've been doing but NINA keeps giving me this 

[StevieDvd]

Did you see the bold sentence:

Please make sure that you have the environmental sensor plugged into the device. It seems that N.I.N.A refuses to connect to UPBv2 if the sensor is missing.

[StuartT]

13 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

Did you see the bold sentence:

Please make sure that you have the environmental sensor plugged into the device. It seems that N.I.N.A refuses to connect to UPBv2 if the sensor is missing.

yep. Had that plugged in all along.

I think it may be something to do with EQMOD (which is generally a pretty painful piece of software)

[KP82]

Does the Pegasus own software see your UPB? Check the device manager to make sure you're connecting to the correct COM port.

I've only used my PPBA alongside EQMOD once with NINA before switching to Ekos/INDI. I didn't recall any connection issues.

[StuartT]

8 minutes ago, KP82 said:

Does the Pegasus own software see your UPB? Check the device manager to make sure you're connecting to the correct COM port.

I've only used my PPBA alongside EQMOD once with NINA before switching to Ekos/INDI. I didn't recall any connection issues.

yes. The software is seeing the Powerbox - that is just connected direct to the laptop's USB (and as far as I know it does not require COM port emulation).

NINA can connect through the powerbox to the ZWO camera (also not using COM port/ASCOM)

But NINA cannot connect to the mount (which does use ASCOM and so needs to have a COM port set in ASCOM which matches the one the laptop is creating)

And NINA cannot see the Powerbox (which is weird because that should also be a direct USB connection from the laptop).

I suspect the problem is with the prehistoric nature of ASCOM which still uses the concept of COM ports! 

[KP82]

5 minutes ago, StuartT said:

yes. The software is seeing the Powerbox - that is just connected direct to the laptop's USB (and as far as I know it does not require COM port emulation).

NINA can connect through the powerbox to the ZWO camera (also not using COM port/ASCOM)

But NINA cannot connect to the mount (which does use ASCOM and so needs to have a COM port set in ASCOM which matches the one the laptop is creating)

And NINA cannot see the Powerbox (which is weird because that should also be a direct USB connection from the laptop).

I suspect the problem is with the prehistoric nature of ASCOM which still uses the concept of COM ports! 

Try one step at a time. First see if NINA can connect to the UPB before physically plug in your camera and mount. Follow this with the camera and finally the mount. Also try different USB ports on your PC. Is the mount plugged into the PC directly or via the USB hub on the UPB?

[Budgie1]

I'm playing with NINA today as well and found I had to have the Pegasus software running and connected to my PPBA before NINA would see the PPBA and connect.

No problems getting NINA to connect to the HEQ5 mount though.

[StuartT]

12 minutes ago, Budgie1 said:

I'm playing with NINA today as well and found I had to have the Pegasus software running and connected to my PPBA before NINA would see the PPBA and connect.

No problems getting NINA to connect to the HEQ5 mount though.

Well I am finding kind of the opposite of that! If NINA is connected to the camera (via the PB) then I can't actually open the PB software! It tells me that the device is already in use by another program!

And to cap it off, my laptop now seems to think it's got two COM ports active! No wonder ASCOM is confused. 

Whatever I do, I can't get this to work 😢

Edited September 11, 2021 by StuartT

[StevieDvd]

It's OK to have many COM ports but some software likes low port numbers.

I would guess that the eqdir cable is for your mount an has taken COM14 and the Pegasus hub has COM11 for the stepper motor driver.

In the Device Manager you can select to 'Show hidden devices'  in the View menu, there may be old settings which have reserved lower port numbers. These won;t show as active until you connect those devices(cables).

• You can delete (uninstall device) if you know they are no longer needed.
• You can change the port number used. Right-click on the COM port, select Properties/Port Settings/Advanced and the port numbers are in a dropdown.

 

 

[Budgie1]

I had my camera already connected via the USB3 hub on the PB and then fired up the PB software and connected.

Which version of ASCOM are you using? The PB V2 info page says ASCOM6 is supported, which comes up as ASCOM Platform 6 in the Windows Start Menu.

Also, are you using the EQDIR cable between the PB & the mount, with the handset removed? I'm just wondering what the Prolific USB to Serial COM port is running because my EQDIR cable is showing a FTDI device. I'm not seeing the Prolific drivers in the list of ports on my laptop.

[StuartT]

27 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

It's OK to have many COM ports but some software likes low port numbers.

I would guess that the eqdir cable is for your mount an has taken COM14 and the Pegasus hub has COM11 for the stepper motor driver.

In the Device Manager you can select to 'Show hidden devices'  in the View menu, there may be old settings which have reserved lower port numbers. These won;t show as active until you connect those devices(cables).

• You can delete (uninstall device) if you know they are no longer needed.
• You can change the port number used. Right-click on the COM port, select Properties/Port Settings/Advanced and the port numbers are in a dropdown.

Yikes! You were right. A lot of old COM ports by the look of it. I must admit, I don't understand all this COM port stuff. Normally devices work with windows just using the USB port and you never have to worry about what number anything is!

Before I got the powerbox when connecting my mount, I used to always first have to look in Device Manager see what COM port it was assigned (always a different number!) and then open up EQMOD or ASCOM or whatever it's called and make sure that COM port was set to the right number. A right pain. I don't really understand why that keeps changing every time you plug something in!  

20 minutes ago, Budgie1 said:

I had my camera already connected via the USB3 hub on the PB and then fired up the PB software and connected.

Which version of ASCOM are you using? The PB V2 info page says ASCOM6 is supported, which comes up as ASCOM Platform 6 in the Windows Start Menu.

Also, are you using the EQDIR cable between the PB & the mount, with the handset removed? I'm just wondering what the Prolific USB to Serial COM port is running because my EQDIR cable is showing a FTDI device. I'm not seeing the Prolific drivers in the list of ports on my laptop.

I'm running ASCOM 6.5.

I'm not sure what an EQDIR cable is, but I am connecting the powerbox directly to the mount yes. I never use the handset for anything as I always plate solve and sync.

[KP82]

26 minutes ago, Budgie1 said:

I had my camera already connected via the USB3 hub on the PB and then fired up the PB software and connected.

Which version of ASCOM are you using? The PB V2 info page says ASCOM6 is supported, which comes up as ASCOM Platform 6 in the Windows Start Menu.

Also, are you using the EQDIR cable between the PB & the mount, with the handset removed? I'm just wondering what the Prolific USB to Serial COM port is running because my EQDIR cable is showing a FTDI device. I'm not seeing the Prolific drivers in the list of ports on my laptop.

I believe that Prolific USB COM port is installed by the embedded stepper motor in the UPB. Since our PPBA doesn't have that feature, we would only see the COM port from the FTDI chip in the EQDIR cable.

[KP82]

6 minutes ago, StuartT said:

Yikes! You were right. A lot of old COM ports by the look of it. I must admit, I don't understand all this COM port stuff. Normally devices work with windows just using the USB port and you never have to worry about what number anything is!

Before I got the powerbox when connecting my mount, I used to always first have to look in Device Manager see what COM port it was assigned (always a different number!) and then open up EQMOD or ASCOM or whatever it's called and make sure that COM port was set to the right number. A right pain. I don't really understand why that keeps changing every time you plug something in!  

I'm running ASCOM 6.5.

I'm not sure what an EQDIR cable is, but I am connecting the powerbox directly to the mount yes. I never use the handset for anything as I always plate solve and sync.

 

Have you tried connecting the mount directly to the PC? If you aren't using an EQDIR cable, your EQ6-R must be a later model with the built-in USB port (my AZ-EQ6 also has this port, but I still stick to the EQDIR cable). That USB port has a FTDI chip embedded. Maybe this has problem going through the USB hub on the UPB.

Edited September 11, 2021 by KP82

[Budgie1]

3 minutes ago, StuartT said:

I'm not sure what an EQDIR cable is, but I am connecting the powerbox directly to the mount yes. I never use the handset for anything as I always plate solve and sync.

The EQDIR cable replaces the mounts hand controller and connects direct to a PC/Laptop so the software can control the mount. I forgot the EQ6-R Pro has the built-in USB connection for this, as @KP82 described above.

7 minutes ago, KP82 said:

I believe that Prolific USB COM port is installed by the embedded stepper motor in the UPB. Since our PPBA doesn't have that feature, we would only see the COM port from the FTDI chip in the EQDIR cable.

That makes sense.

[StuartT]

I have a new EQ6 with a USB port in it and I use that.

@KP82 - yes, the laptop can connect directly to the mount from the laptop. to be honest, I had just about got the hang of connecting to my mount with NINA (once I figured out all the ASCOM port nonsense and constantly changing numbers). But now I am putting the PB in between them seems to have just upset everything again. (it's certainly upset me!).

I did email the Pegasus guy and he told me that if you are using NINA you shouldn't use the powerbox's own software too because they conflict with each other.

At this rate, it's looking like I've made a rather expensive mistake buying a UPB. I might end up just going back to a direct connection and cable hell! 😭

[KP82]

1 minute ago, StuartT said:

I have a new EQ6 with a USB port in it and I use that.

@KP82 - yes, the laptop can connect directly to the mount from the laptop. to be honest, I had just about got the hang of connecting to my mount with NINA (once I figured out all the ASCOM port nonsense and constantly changing numbers). But now I am putting the PB in between them seems to have just upset everything again. (it's certainly upset me!).

I did email the Pegasus guy and he told me that if you are using NINA you shouldn't use the powerbox's own software too because they conflict with each other.

At this rate, it's looking like I've made a rather expensive mistake buying a UPB. I might end up just going back to a direct connection and cable hell! 😭

I could be wrong, but I think the embedded stepper motor is conflicting with the mount when you have your EQ6-R connected via the UPB. This configuration means two FTDI chips are trying to negotiate their own COM ports via the same physical USB port on the UPB. This might not be technically possible.

If you can have everything else bar the mount connected via the UPB, I wouldn't think that as "cable hell".

[StuartT]

ok, now I restarted NINA and it can't even see the camera!

I then tried opening the PB software and I got this

[KP82]

10 minutes ago, StuartT said:

ok, now I restarted NINA and it can't even see the camera!

I then tried opening the PB software and I got this

Might well be a defective UPB. Maybe return it and exchange for a PPBA if you have no use of the stepper motor or 20A.

Edited September 11, 2021 by KP82

[StuartT]

1 minute ago, KP82 said:

Might well be a defective UPB. Maybe return it and exchange for a PPBA if you have no use of the stepper motor or 20A.

hmm.. maybe. 😞

I do have a use for the focus motor controller (Pegasus motor focus kit)

[StevieDvd]

COM ports are easily deleted and replaced when equipment is added again.

The FTDI based connections will select & remember the port number, more & more devices are using that driver now. And yes you can have multiple cables using the FTDI driver, they will have a unique port number allocated.

The Prolific ones, as you can see, add the next unused port number each time, but the port number can be changed (either to the one the client software needs by device/properties, or by changing the client to match. I think the mount is using a Prolific driver for it's on board usb port.

If it were me, I'd delete all the ports & drivers (though I appreciate this may seem drastic to you so will understand you now wanting to).  Or you can just delete the ports and leave the drivers.

Then check the UPB on it's own, without the mount connected using the Pegasus software), connect a camera via a UPB USB port and if all works close the Pegasus software and retry with NINA.

As far as I have read, you can set options using the Pegasus which are then defaulted on powering it up (such as the variable power and which power ports are activated).

I'm happy to help diagnose any issues as I was considering on of these for myself - manily as it has the stepper port in.

 

[StuartT]

31 minutes ago, StevieDvd said:

COM ports are easily deleted and replaced when equipment is added again.

The FTDI based connections will select & remember the port number, more & more devices are using that driver now. And yes you can have multiple cables using the FTDI driver, they will have a unique port number allocated.

The Prolific ones, as you can see, add the next unused port number each time, but the port number can be changed (either to the one the client software needs by device/properties, or by changing the client to match. I think the mount is using a Prolific driver for it's on board usb port.

If it were me, I'd delete all the ports & drivers (though I appreciate this may seem drastic to you so will understand you now wanting to).  Or you can just delete the ports and leave the drivers.

Then check the UPB on it's own, without the mount connected using the Pegasus software), connect a camera via a UPB USB port and if all works close the Pegasus software and retry with NINA.

As far as I have read, you can set options using the Pegasus which are then defaulted on powering it up (such as the variable power and which power ports are activated).

I'm happy to help diagnose any issues as I was considering on of these for myself - manily as it has the stepper port in.

 

I don't really understand much of this. But I'm grateful anyhow. 

What I think I understand is that when I plug a device like a mount into my laptop USB port, the laptop has to emulate a serial port (which it calls 'COM something') so it can talk to the device.

is that right?

and presumably even if I am connecting my mount through the Powerbox, it still has to emulate a serial port and then send that through the powerbox to the mount?

I don't know what FTDI is, I'm afraid. 

Edited September 11, 2021 by StuartT

[StevieDvd]

59 minutes ago, StuartT said:

I don't really understand much of this. But I'm grateful anyhow. 

What I think I understand is that when I plug a device like a mount into my laptop USB port, the laptop has to emulate a serial port (which it calls 'COM something') so it can talk to the device.

is that right?

and presumably even if I am connecting my mount through the Powerbox, it still has to emulate a serial port and then send that through the powerbox to the mount?

I don't know what FTDI is, I'm afraid. 

Yes the COM port is a serial port which were on some computers, and still on some today  - though rare. When USB came out, the space for ports on laptops was getting congested, so the seldom used COM ports were removed. Then small adapters using a USB connection came out to do the job of the serial - and when done properly these appear the same as a standard COM port to equipment that connects to them.

These adapters are small enough now to be inside the USB plug, or inside the mount itself and/or the handset too. Like most computers things they need a driver, FTDI & Prolific are simply company/brand names for the adapter makers.

So in your case:

• Just your mount connected via a simple USB cable to the mount usb port uses the adapter inside the mount
• A simple USB cable to the handset uses the adapter in the handset
• A simple USB to the UPB and another from UPB to the mount will use the adapter in the mount
• Inside the UPB there will be an adapter for the stepper motor control which goes back to the PC via the UPB USB cable.

If your mount did not have the USB port SGL members would advise you to get an EQMOD/EQDIR cable - basically a USB cable with the serial adapter and a small plug that fits in the handset port - they'd likely advise getting an FTDI one as that remembers the COM port number and makes things a little easier if you don't leave all equipment plugged in.  The astro dealers will sell reputable ones (FLO do) but some on EBay/Amazon though cheaper can be short-lived.

There's 2 reasons to use an eqmod cable. A cable with FTDI can be used and the handset port plug stays in better than the USB plus.  Though the contrary argument is that the USB printer type cable is cheaper and you get them anywhere.

 

 

[StuartT]

2 hours ago, StevieDvd said:

Yes the COM port is a serial port which were on some computers, and still on some today  - though rare. When USB came out, the space for ports on laptops was getting congested, so the seldom used COM ports were removed. Then small adapters using a USB connection came out to do the job of the serial - and when done properly these appear the same as a standard COM port to equipment that connects to them.

These adapters are small enough now to be inside the USB plug, or inside the mount itself and/or the handset too. Like most computers things they need a driver, FTDI & Prolific are simply company/brand names for the adapter makers.

So in your case:

• Just your mount connected via a simple USB cable to the mount usb port uses the adapter inside the mount
• A simple USB cable to the handset uses the adapter in the handset
• A simple USB to the UPB and another from UPB to the mount will use the adapter in the mount
• Inside the UPB there will be an adapter for the stepper motor control which goes back to the PC via the UPB USB cable.

If your mount did not have the USB port SGL members would advise you to get an EQMOD/EQDIR cable - basically a USB cable with the serial adapter and a small plug that fits in the handset port - they'd likely advise getting an FTDI one as that remembers the COM port number and makes things a little easier if you don't leave all equipment plugged in.  The astro dealers will sell reputable ones (FLO do) but some on EBay/Amazon though cheaper can be short-lived.

There's 2 reasons to use an eqmod cable. A cable with FTDI can be used and the handset port plug stays in better than the USB plus.  Though the contrary argument is that the USB printer type cable is cheaper and you get them anywhere.

 

 

Thanks for bothering to explain all that. Very helpful. 

In the meantime, it's a clear night, so I have connected up the old fashioned way as I don't want to miss those lovely photons because of messing about with plugs and cables. 😉

I'll try the powerbox again in the morning.