Upgrading the 8SE to an EQ Mount with Larger (11-14") scopes in mind and a future observatory, pod/roll off/piers? Confusion/suggestions?

[theskyisthelimit99]

As of this moment I have an 8SE scope with its Alt/Az mount.

I'd like to Minimally upgrade the mount to be a GEM in the near future.  Here lies my confusion because of future dome/roll off roof ideas/plans.

In the near future, either at my current house, or possibly at a house we move to (one house we looked at even has a roll off roof already, roughly 10x10 but short walls that you duck to get in the door and roof supports that could clip a bigger mount/scope even horizontal, unsure) i'd plan on building a roll off roof type or maybe just getting a portable dome (cost more around $3500 and only 8' total outside diameter i think).  I'm not completely convinced i could build a roll off roof one, or maybe a modified home depot 8x8 shed one I may be able to manage on my own..

So given that I want to upgrade mounts + build an observatory.. 

Does this sort of hinder what I should get in terms of the EQ mount?  I've seen some observatories with cement or metal piers (prefab?) with a mount on top of this? I'm unclear if you can just buy those already set and use the part of an eq mount + tripod that is just the mount portion on top?  

Ideally i could take any GEM i am considering along with the 8, or an 11 or 14" scope later on and it just work in whatever observatory i buy/build.. but I dont think its this simple?

To support a 14" I think the one that comes with the 14" is best.. it holds a ton of weight.. listed at 38" retracted + guessing 14-20 if the scope is horizontal (meaning i need the roof line to be above 58"?  (thats the cgx-L model mount/tripod if using the tripod).. but i guess you could put the mount on a shorter pier?

In the case of the house with its short wall roll off roof with an already done flooring (which is covered in carpet), i think i may be restricted to a tripod setup (with vibrations for imaging?) inside it?  In the long run i might scale back to an 11" but even still the tripod + scope will still be a certain height that isnt much less than that of the 14".

Any thoughts/suggestions 

Thanks in advance

 

[Peter Drew]

I presume you are considering an SCT as an aperture upgrade. I have several SCT's from 8" to 16" and I can confirm that they are much more stable in the alt-az configuration or on a GEM rather than the factory fork mount when used with a wedge. I think you will need to think carefully as to what you will primarily be wishing to image. For lunar and planetary imaging the SCT track record speaks for itself but they are not usually the first choice for DSO's and a mount capable of accurately guiding them is going to be expensive.  ?

[Stu Todd]

You don't have to go all out in your observatory build, just a roll off shed (where you open the doors and push the whole shed away from the scope) will suffice. Indeed, I know of several permanent outside setups which simply use a Telegizmo cover and are fine 365 days of the year.

Certainly, a metal pier is preferable to the tripod but your future scope considerations must be weighed into your mount choice as you say.  For a 14" SCT a Celestron will be 46 lbs and Meade 65+, scope only.

On top of that, you'll have cameras/EP/filter wheel/guide scope/focal reducers etc, so a Paramount, Losmandy Titan or whatever you choose must be factored in.

In saying this, don't forget that the pier doesn't have to be tall. If you're not looking through the scope and just imaging, then you can shorten the pier a lot.

[theskyisthelimit99]

16 hours ago, Peter Drew said:

I presume you are considering an SCT as an aperture upgrade. I have several SCT's from 8" to 16" and I can confirm that they are much more stable in the alt-az configuration or on a GEM rather than the factory fork mount when used with a wedge. I think you will need to think carefully as to what you will primarily be wishing to image. For lunar and planetary imaging the SCT track record speaks for itself but they are not usually the first choice for DSO's and a mount capable of accurately guiding them is going to be expensive.  ?

Yeah, i meant going from the 8" 8SE SCT to maybe an 11" or 14".. 14" really makes the mount requirement jump though.. honestly i'd like to do both and i thought something like the "Starizona Hyperstar" might make that possible, but that might only be an option for the 11", but it would save me from needing two mounts in the observatory (one for the current 8 or future 11/14 and another for a refractor for dso), maybe?

What would have been ideal is just getting a better mount (with tripod) to accommodate the current scope or future scope and use it as is inside a roll off observatory for now, but this depends on how high the walls are, which might mean needing the pier.. then when you get into piers.. concrete in the ground vs maybe something of a slab + concrete plus the metal pier.. so many options and confusion at this point to me.  

I keep thinking maybe the home depot shed mod option seen online here for around $1400 total would work, but only for one pier obviously.. and i worry ill screw something up, or screw it up and have a leak destroy a computer + scope + equipment inside.. i guess there may be options to have a pro do the install but that could triple the cost and i'm unaware of roll off roof builders (i think a roll off roof is the better bet, especially since i'm 6'6 and would probably want at least a 12' dome not an 8).

I'm still working off a limited budget for now, so functional is more important than complicated and costly, just something that will let me have the equipment already been in place and less likely to avoid doing observing due to dragging everything out and hooking it up.

 

[theskyisthelimit99]

3 hours ago, Stu Todd said:

You don't have to go all out in your observatory build, just a roll off shed (where you open the doors and push the whole shed away from the scope) will suffice. Indeed, I know of several permanent outside setups which simply use a Telegizmo cover and are fine 365 days of the year.

Certainly, a metal pier is preferable to the tripod but your future scope considerations must be weighed into your mount choice as you say.  For a 14" SCT a Celestron will be 46 lbs and Meade 65+, scope only.

On top of that, you'll have cameras/EP/filter wheel/guide scope/focal reducers etc, so a Paramount, Losmandy Titan or whatever you choose must be factored in.

In saying this, don't forget that the pier doesn't have to be tall. If you're not looking through the scope and just imaging, then you can shorten the pier a lot.

I think i'd still be doing a mixture of imaging and optical observing.. I hadnt considered this roll off idea, though i'd worry it could block part of the view.. wouldnt an advantage of a taller pier and inside say a shed with roll off roof make this less an issue?  Also.. i sortof liked the idea of having an enclosure where i can have the computer equipment and be shielded from the chill of winter air (and have a space heater inside too?).. i guess maybe you could use the roll off shed area (but above grass) with a table and the laptop and heater and the scope being outside, but then you have to set all this up each time i would guess

[Stu Todd]

On 25/08/2018 at 03:10, theskyisthelimit99 said:

I think i'd still be doing a mixture of imaging and optical observing.. I hadnt considered this roll off idea, though i'd worry it could block part of the view.. wouldnt an advantage of a taller pier and inside say a shed with roll off roof make this less an issue? 

No, shouldn't be an issue as it will roll off by a couple of metres or so at least. Plus, you don't want to be imaging below about 35 degrees anyway.

Also.. i sort of liked the idea of having an enclosure where i can have the computer equipment and be shielded from the chill of winter air (and have a space heater inside too?).. i guess maybe you could use the roll off shed area (but above grass) with a table and the laptop and heater and the scope being outside, but then you have to set all this up each time i would guess

Have a split shed, with one half as the warm room and the other half rolling away, as discussed above. Thete are many ways of doing this. No issues or pitfalls really.

14

 

[ollypenrice]

I wouldn't use a big SCT for deep sky imaging, personally. As I've said in a recent UK magazine article I was unable to find any significant difference in the resolution of real detail between an ODK14 and a TEC140 refractor when appropriate pixel sizes were used. And beware the hype in Hyperstar. The idea that any F2 system is going to make life 'easy' will be laughed out of court by anyone who has even a modest amount of DS imaging experience. I'd second Peter in the view that the SCT makes a definitive planetary imaging scope but it does not lend itself to DS work.

I once made the mistakes, first of buying an equatorial wedge for an SCT and then of deforking it, so when I recently inherited a 14 inch I decided to leave well alone and let it do what it's good at, visual astronomy in Alt Az. It can also do planetary and lunar imaging in that mode, though this isn't my thing.

Sitting under a small full roll off on a home made concrete pier it makes a lovely visual instrument occupying hardly any space at all and being child's play to set in motion at night. It's very popular with our guests who love its convenience and high quality views. 

Olly