Celestron Nexstar Evolution mount: how to control the mount through SGPro

[Filroden]

I'm slowly automating my imaging and the next step is to drive my mount from my laptop, ideally from within SGPro but if not, through planetarium software. I have linked my laptop to the mount via the hand controller and I can drive the altaz using direction keys. However, I cannot enter a position and have the mount move to the correct location.

I align using StarSense but when I check the mount direction in SGPro it claims a very different and often a changing position. It seems my alignment is not being read so SGPro cannot see the mount's absolute position.

What am I doing wrong?

[noah4x4]

Don't know about SGPRO, and I assume by laptop you mean a Windows PC (n.b. as regards an Evolution this challenge is much easier with a Mac, Android or IOS).

However, I am confident that StarSense will work OK with Stellarium. It is also possible to run SkySafari Pro on a Windows PC if it has an Android emulator.

But, what PC operating system are you using? Is it Windows 10? Here is why....

The 2015/16 version of the StarSense HC with RS232 port requires a 'serial to USB adapter' cable to connect to a modern PC with USB input. The latest version HC does have a USB port, but that too is essentially  still a serial output albeit it now directly fits a USB connector. To update it's firmware via Windows 10 I know that your PC would need to have installed a serial to USB Windows 10 driver. This is not native to Windows 10. I believe this driver is a PL2303 and is required to allow communication between the PC and HC's PL2303 chipset. If I am right, that might explain the lack of response.

It's maybe a long shot, but try installing a PL2303 driver and see if that is a solution. (Just Google PL2303 driver to find a download)

ADDED

Just had another thought. If you align an Evolution using Starsense with a tablet via WiFi, only the HC Direction Keys will work. Sounds familiar? Touch any other HC key and you get a conflict. Hence, I think I might be on the right track with a PL2303 driver as in effect you are extending the routine HC control to the Laptop and that needs an interpreter. This differs from the WiFi route as there the tablet is a full replacement for the HC. Just reckon it's worth a punt unless you get some better ideas.

[Filroden]

37 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

But, what PC operating system are you using?

I'm running Windows 10 via Bootcamp on a Macbook Pro (SGPro needs windows and that is my preferred capture software so I want to find a solution that works in Windows and I don't have any virtualisation software for MacOS).

37 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

It is also possible to run SkySafari Pro on a Windows PC if it has an Android emulator.

I didn't know this. I have SkySafari Pro for the MacOS plus iOS but I hadn't thought to check a Linux version as that would drive StarSense properly. Maybe I can run the Linux version from within Windows?

37 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

The 2015/16 version of the StarSense HC with RS232 port requires a 'serial to USB adapter' cable to connect to a modern PC with USB input.

I am connecting from laptop to StarSense HC via a serial to USB adaptor and have drivers for the adaptor and I'm using the ASCOM unified Celestron mount drivers. This seems to allow me to drive the mount in alt and az from the laptop so I think the driver is working but any alignment made with the HC is not being recognised by the laptop so I cannot send goto commands from the laptop. SGPro gives mount positions and the readings are very wrong in both RA and Dec and change quite dramatically, suggesting some communication issue in my setup.

37 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

Just had another thought. If you align an Evolution using Starsense with a tablet via WiFi, only the HC Direction Keys will work. Sounds familiar?

Ah, I wonder if it's a sequence of events thing? I had aligned with HC then connected with the laptop through SGPro (it was physically connected but I hadn't connected via ASCOM). Maybe I need to connect in SGPro through the ASCOM driver first and then align with the HC so it detects the alignment?

I think I'm going to explore whether I can run SkySafari Pro through a Linux box as I much prefer SkySafari over Stellarium. This means I don't have to worry about ASCOM, etc.

Thank you for your help!

 

EDIT: my mistake, SkySafari isn't available for Linux so I'll have to check the Android emulator route. Either way, it looks like another purchase of SkySafari  I may have to compare costs of that vs. virtualisation of Windows from MacOS.

[noah4x4]

If attempting the Android emulator route (via Windows 10) perhaps try it with the FREE 'SkyPortal for Android' APP? This is a cut down version of SkySafari.

I do suspect order of precedence is material. I often use the Evolution's WiFi, but whether you first align with WiFi or with HC you then have to stay with your choice of controller. Attempt a GoTo with the other controller and it all locks up. 

This is probably pretty cutting edge stuff because Starsense compatibility with SkySafari for Android didn't exist before about June 2016 (before that, Evo owners were stuck with SkyPortal). I am also aware that there were firmware updates for both the Starsense HC (February) and Evolution motor (August) during 2016. Mine performs better since I concluded those.

It's probably worth a look at 'Cloudy Nights' which has a very active software problem thread. I do recall reading there about the Android emulator route, and also how to first set up using a HC and hand over to Stellarium.  Might be similar for SGPRO. 

 

 

[Filroden]

1 minute ago, noah4x4 said:

If attempting the Android emulator route (via Windows 10) perhaps try it with the FREE 'SkyPortal for Android' APP? This is a cut down version of SkySafari.

Thinking about it (trying not to overthinking about it), I could of course just drive the mount from my iPad. However, I think I originally dismissed this idea because of all the wifi connectivity problems I was having and hence my desire to go a hard wired route (plus I can then remotely control the laptop from inside via TeamViewer). I much prefer SkySafari over SkyPortal as it gives you the ability to show your field of view, etc, making framing much easier. Maybe I just need to resolve the wifi issue and go back to way I used to drive the mount before I used the laptop.

I've also just got scared by all the dodgy looking sites recommending their own favourite emulators and now fear viruses/trojans, etc.

4 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

I am also aware that there were firmware updates for both the Starsense HC (February) and Evolution motor (August) during 2016. Mine performs better since I concluded those.

I think I'm on the latest versions - I keep a check on the Celestron beta site for firmware updates, etc and only recently ran CFM.

6 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

I do suspect order of precedence is material. I often use the Evolution's WiFi, but whether you first align with WiFi or with HC you then have to stay with your choice of controller. Attempt a GoTo with the other controller and it all locks up. 

I guess I hoped the ASCOM driver simply extended the HC back to the laptop so the mount was still "seeing" the HC issue the goto even through it was originated from software on the laptop. However, thinking about it, maybe I do need to have everything fully connected before I run the alignment. I know Celestron are developing a new HC emulator that will work with StarSense but their pace of development is glacial.

So I guess I'm testing three ideas:

- check order of precedence with the current set up

- give wifi from the iPad another try

- virualise Windows under MacOS and use SkySafari though I think this then still means I'm connecting via wifi?

[noah4x4]

Ken, a couple of thoughts about Evolution WiFi...

I spent six months of frustration; suffered random drop outs etc and blamed the 'WiFi Clutter' problem that Celestron promote as the issue. Then by chance I read about nuisance battery saving APPs that are not native to IOS or Android,  but often bundled by Telecoms companies. I discovered that very deeply embedded in my tablet I had such an APP and that rogue was automatically turning off SkySafari Plus after n minutes of inactivity. This gave the impression of random disconnects as the 'inactivity' depended on how much time between GoTo's I spent looking via an EP. Ever since I removed this APP my tablet battery life as halved, but telescope disconnects are now rare. I really enjoy WiFi control. 

SkySafari Plus works brilliantly with Starsense, notably as I have added ten additional alignment points, each being a different bright star located high near the Zenith, each in a different constellation ; hence spread over the year. These now work like having ten remembered SYNC spread across the sky. I now get such astonishing GoTo accuracy I rarely touch the slew buttons. But as I said before, after alignment by tablet, the HC directional buttons will still work resolving the lack of tactile feedback from tablet. 

I wish I had discovered the APP problem earlier. Neither Celestron or Simulation Curriculum were aware of this, but are now advising people to check. Interestingly,  one rarely reads of WiFi issues now, so maybe this is the silver bullet!

[Filroden]

2 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

Ever since I removed this APP my tablet battery life as halved, but telescope disconnects are now rare.

I'll check but with iOS being such a locked down OS, it would have to be part of the default iOS settings. I'll check their battery settings. I do know that if I am running SkySafari on the iPad it never goes to sleep which can be a huge battery drain but has the advantage I can see what's going on all the time. I think mine is just the iPad connecting to its home wifi in preference to the mount. I will have to try the direct access mode if I have to go the wifi route.

My loathing of the wifi issue was more that once it occured, nothing short of a full power down of the mount and a full realign would get it back to tracking. 9 times out of 10 I could never reconnect with the iPad that night (or connect via Skyportal or via the iPhone) and would have to get the HC and plug it in and start afresh, losing me about 30 minutes of time. I finally decided that if I had to get the HC out I might as well just use the HC!

3 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

Interestingly,  one rarely reads of WiFi issues now

I know the latest versions of the Evolution mounts have stronger wifi units.

8 minutes ago, noah4x4 said:

I now get such astonishing GoTo accuracy I rarely touch the slew buttons.

I love how accurate the alignment is, even without the additional points. I likewise always end up with my target centred. However, the defined centre of large DSO are not always where I want them framed so I want to nudge it a little. I get a 'live' view through SGPro so I can frame in real time. I'd just like to do the alignment, goto and nudging from the warmth of the house  I already have imaging and focusing controlled remotely, just the two of the three movements to go...

[noah4x4]

40 minutes ago, Filroden said:

SEE COMMENTS WITHIN....

I think mine is just the iPad connecting to its home wifi in preference to the mount. I will have to try the direct access mode if I have to go the wifi route.

EASY SOLUTION. "Forget" your home network before connecting to scope. Takes seconds to reinsert router password after your session.

My loathing of the wifi issue was more that once it occured, nothing short of a full power down of the mount and a full realign would get it back to tracking. 9 times out of 10 I could never reconnect with the iPad that night (or connect via Skyportal or via the iPhone) and would have to get the HC and plug it in and start afresh, losing me about 30 minutes of time. I finally decided that if I had to get the HC out I might as well just use the HC!

EXACTLY WHAT I SUFFERED AND DID. But once I "forgot" my home network and killed the battery saving APP the problem diminished.  

I know the latest versions of the Evolution mounts have stronger wifi unit.

MINE IS GEN1. But works fine now, yet my tablet can see dozens of neighbour routers. I reckon 'WiFi Clutter' is a bit of a myth because Celestron had no other explanation.  

I love how accurate the alignment is, even without the additional points. I likewise always end up with my target centred. However, the defined centre of large DSO are not always where I want them framed so I want to nudge it a little. I get a 'live' view through SGPro so I can frame in real time. I'd just like to do the alignment, goto and nudging from the warmth of the house  I already have imaging and focusing controlled remotely, just the two of the three movements to go...

A TIP...about "nudging"

I use SkySafari Plus. My initial GoTo might find a large object (say Orion Nebula) in a 32mm Plossl. What I do then is enlarge the SkySafari Plus screen magnification  (using two fingered pinch/ swipe). This reveals ever more adjacent objects on screen. Many are so dim that I would never see them through an EP. So if I need a little nudge to the West to (say) view the Trapezium in a 12mm Delos, or to better centre the nebula for APP,  I use GoTo an adjacent object in that direction, or a named star within the nebula. SkySafari Plus offers 25 million stars. It's quite easy to move the scope a fraction by this technique.  You could also get an extension cable for your HC as it's direction buttons will still work.